This is not news to me and should be a kick in the teeth of Obamites and Obamatrons everywhere. I predicted that Obama bin Laden would have to talk $10 to the word and be the lamest duck president in US history and he's well on his way. He has to hold 2 news conferences for every 1 statement he makes. I'm not voting for such a back-peddler who, when push comes to shove as Prez, will probably just "brush off things" and be Fly. Fly as in flying from his promises and responsibilities.

He's clearly never heard of "writing a check his ass can't cash".

And Methuselah McSame is no better. Yep! Looks like I'll be writing my own name in down at the bottom and voting for myself again this time. Hey, I meet all the Constitutional requirements and, following the Democrap plan, could do no worse.

The left has never been for "peace". Bill clinton Starved over a million people to death in Iraq, and while they were starving he dropped 1600 bombs on them. Literally, starved to death, the UN said most of the people that died were children under the age of 5.

The left started the Vietnam War, Korean war, got us into WWI. The list continues.

Obama won't pull the troops out, but he will send troops to Darfur and get involved in yet another cival war, Kinda like Slick Willy did in Somalia.

Or you have Mccain who will just start pushing buttons to see how much crap he can obliterate while he's in office.

Obama, Mccain, doesn't matter. Both will keep Troops in Iraq, both will put in Cap and trade, both will rob you blind, both will kill the same amount of people overseas.

Choose wisely.

reply to post by WhatTheory

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Leftist practices are usually the result of the middle and poor class struggle. Its no surprise someone would claim leftist principals to gain votes from that sector, only to flipflop and move to the other side of the political spectrum. There are many forms of socialism, and not all of them resemble the horrors of communism (Mao or Stalin) If there is a powerful socialist movement, it is because the people demand such a thing. If Obama is a leftist (which he's not, hes just left of center) and he wins the election, it is because the people want the change in their countries leadership to represent their interests, and not the moneyed class. Of course, most Americans are in for a shock when they figure out Obama, McCain, makes no difference. They will still be in economic trouble. They will still be in Iraq. And they may be in Iran.


[edit on 4-7-2008 by InSpiteOf]

There is no story here. Obama NEVER said he was changing his position, in fact, he held two more press conferences to stress that he is committed to his plan. You can read HIS statements on any news site as well as at his site, www.barackobama.com He said that he was going to continue to refine his plans over time. This is something that ANY person desiring to lead a nation should do.

I get tired of hearing people say the candidates are flip-flopping. I would be very afraid of the person who sticks to their first plan, no matter what info they come across, no matter what changes, etc. This reminds me of one George W. who refuses to accept that things change and plans need to change sometimes.

Whether you agree with McCain or Obama on the war, one thing they both have is personal conviction. Even if it takes a few more months to get the troops out, Obama is fundamentally opposed to this war.

I love this site, but hate it when people post things that just aren't true. You don't have to like Obama, but atleast report accurate information.

so what if he "thought" about the actions he should take, shouldn't we commend him for "thinking" and say, hey maybe just leaving as I said isn't the best course of action , maybe we need to pull out slower or in another fashion. I'm rather amazed at peoples reactions to politicians changing their minds.. Don't we want people to "think" and be open to saying, "hey maybe what I thought was the best way to go about something isn't" I am by no means a supporter of war, but I think your looking at this wrong. Leaving in a hurry during war times did get the US in trouble before, I might add..

If you define the left by US leaders than yes, you are correct, the left is evil. But so is the center and the right. In fact i would go as far as to say, Mr. Clinton represented Centrist policies, even as far as right of center, seeing as he was a huge proponent of Globalization and big business.

Furthermore, Populist Revolutionary governments across the Middle East, South America, and Africa have for decades suffers brutal repression, assassinations, interventions and proxy/mercenary warfare at the hands of autocratic right wing forces supported by the West. Those governments supported leftist policies of land and wealth re-distribution, public works and ownership of production, universal health and dental care, etc. They came under fire not because they were undemocratic, far from it. All were the result of popular agitation and fair democratic elections against an entrenched owning class. They were targeted because they tried to re-organize their land, labour, resources, and markets in a way that would benefit the people rather than international corporate finance and multi-national business. People attempting to throw away the shackles of "client-state" "free-market" corporate capitalism were the targets of the most powerful military machine known on this planet.

Dont let the lines be blurred. True Leftist popular agitation wants nothing to do with Clinton and his 78 day bombing campaign against the democratic nation of Yugoslavia, Somilia, Angola, Mozambique, iraq, etc.

Clintons crimes are many and I wish he were brought up on war crimes charges. But he does not represent the left just because he sits in a democrats seat.

By the way, the left didnt start the Viet Nam war, the threat that communism posed to international capitalism did.

MOTHER#ER


I really do regret voting for him in the primarys. Although, even he lost Pennsylvania, it's the thought that matters lol.

god damnit. DAMN YOU OBAMA!!!

But it is common sense---if we leave Iraq and something horrific happens, who'll get blamed? The US. And look, we have American soldiers in every country we were involved with in the past few decades, honestly. So who are we kidding when we think US soldiers will be removed from Iraq.

It won't happen.

Ever

If he changed his mind that easily, there's nothing stopping him from changing his mind once he's elected to keep the troops in Iraq. I bet $100 that when Obama takes office (assuming McCain is not going to win) he does not remove our troops from Iraq. If he does, the only reason for doing so would be to attack Iran. Anything otherwise is simply not in Israel's best interest, and not going to happen.

If anyone wants to take me up on my bet I'm open.

Ugh, he's just like all the rest. He shadows himself in his persona to gain the support of the American people, then he begins to remove his mask a few months prior to elections. I don't think we'll being seeing his whole face anytime soon. Down with Obama! Down with McCain! Write in Ron Paul!

reply to post by o22a6ar

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I agree, but at least McCain is honest with his intentions of more war in Iraq and is not pandering. I don't like what McCain stands for, but at least he's honest about being a war hawk. Obomba on the other hand slyly changes his plans every 5 minutes, you don't know what you're getting with him.

Sorry, that is not correct.
Leftist practices hold back the middle class from becoming upper class and leftist practices create the the poor class.


Obama is a leftist, an extreme leftist!
Name me one major issue where his view is not that of a leftist. I mean he is for giving drivers licenses to illegals, universal healthcare, income redistribution, higher taxes, more government regulation and bigger government in general. I could go on and on.

[edit on 4-7-2008 by WhatTheory]

Obama is pretty religious actually so he's not hardcore liberal in that department. In other cases however, he really is a die hard lib.

Nothing wrong with that though.

I don't believe he is pretty religious. He only attented the america bashing church in order to get elected in his home state. He is pro abortion which is against religious beliefs. The few times he as spoken publically about religion, it was obvious he did not know what he was talking about. I will have to see if I can find a link.
But religion in general is not a political issue and that is what I was talking about in the previous post.

Obama "changed" his mind? Well, he IS the candidate of change!

We are winning in Iraq now, so lets retreat while we still can! THAT makes sense! Maybe even Obama can see this, despite his Dumbo ears obscuring his view when a stiff breeze comes from behind him, and is NOT just sucking up to the Right. Its not so much the two parties trying to parrot each other, its a simple fact. There have been more US casualties in Afghanistan than Iraq as of late. Iraq is getting more independent every day. Infrastructure is returning to normal, and they are getting ready to fire up their oil industry. (For all you brainiacs still thinking we are there for the oil, the Iraqi's have chosen mostly "non-USA" contractors for the oil work----not the "puppet" nation you'd think they'd be under such an Imperialistic Bastard like the US!)

[edit on 5-7-2008 by CreeWolf]

“I am going to do a thorough assessment when I'm there," he told reporters in Fargo, N.D., according to CBS News. "When I go to Iraq and I have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I'm sure I'll have more information and will continue to refine my policies."

Just what kind of information does Obama think he’s going to get from the commanders. ? First there is no way in he** the commanders are going to give him the information he thinks he going to get. Obama does not have that kind of clearance, nor does he or his staff have the military training to make any kind of assessment . Obama is only a senator. The commanders do not answer to him at all. He is not there commander and chief. I went through this drill with a few senators myself. I know the drill inside out being former military officer. So I don’t buy his BS at all.

I’m just wondering what kind of bull Obama is going to feed us when he returns. I knew all that talk about pulling troops out in 16 months was bull to begin with. Try more like 3-4 years . then comes the rotations with the UN you’re looking at 7 years tops.
Man this guys is really beginning to PI** me off with this BS of his.

reply to post by Truther

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Obama, like every well informed person, knows that it will be impossible to "bring the troops home", whatever that means, with a click of is fingers. I am not an Obama supporter and think he, in the unlikely event of being elected, would do more harm then good to the USA; but I do consider him an intelligent person, with great advisers.
Following politics, like I do, you find out that what comes out of any politician's mouth when he is running to be elected is very different from what he truly believes, or, more accurately, from what he believes can be done.
Obama knows he can't just whistle the troops back home, because:
a) You can't just put 150000 troops, and their equipment, in a bunch of planes and fly off into the sun set. It has to be organized, well planed and executed, which, of course takes time. Who will protect the troops while they are being pulled out, do you leave a couple of companies to be massacred?
b) Pulling out the troops will create a vacuum of power in the whole region. We are talking about civil war (Kurds against Shiites against Sunnis and so on); all out wars can break out (like Turkey invading Iraqi Kurdistan, Syria claiming the territories on it's border with Iraq, Iran clamming the Iraq territories they fought about in the eighties, and so on). So a total pull out could ignite the whole region, maybe even the whole world (of the flow of oil is compromised, and it will be).

These are just some of the reasons I believe trouble Obama. Like any politician he resorts to double talk, when speaking to the people he tells them what they want to hear, in speaking to political analysts, or at political meetings, or to an educated audience he says what he thinks is possible to achieve.

I bare him no resentment for this, he is like all politicians, he is like all people, he doesn't have a magic wand (even if he says he does in order to get elected).
He may not like the occupation of Iraq but, as a leader, he has to live in the real world, as opposed to the "what if world" some Americans seem to think they live in.

Whoever becomes President is going to inherit this situation, and it will not go away because of wishful thinking or reading "The Secret". And it doesn't make any difference to the future President if we all repeat over and over that we should never have invaded Iraq. The truth is that Iraq was occupied and America is now responsible for the fate of it's people and the stability of the region. That is the task the new President will face, whether he likes it or not.

reply to post by iamcamouflage

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“I will bring our troops out at a pace of one two brigades a month” which would mean the United States would be totally out of Iraq in 16 months.

Where does he get this logic from ? So otherwise he going to leave some other brigades high and dry with no support ? Does he know how many are in a brigade ? There is no way to pull two brigades a month. According to his logic it seems like he will leave the combat brigades with no support. Or the support brigades with no combat support. That is not how you pull out from a war. According to his plan in the final pull out two brigades could and will be easly be overrun. If your reading this Obama or any of your staff. BIG MISTAKE !!!

LTC . SJE98.
The LTC is not part of my user name it's a military rank

This just kills me about the voting public. Obama said he would take his experiences in Iraq into account when further defining the withdrawal. He didn't say he was going to stay in Iraq. In fact, he said just today that he would move troops out of Iraq at 1-2 brigades per month and at that rate we would be out in sixteen months.

So, which of you Obama supporters think it's a bad idea for your candidate to make the best possible decisions, the most educated decisions? Do you really think Obama would be a good president if he just withdraw all troops immediately without taking into account what's happening on the ground there?

This is another example of the GOP laying blame where there is none. They want to call him a flip-flopper here, try to spin his words so that he doesn't look like a smart man who takes things into consideration (unlike Bush). They want him to look like a half-cocked "Jimmy Carter" who makes decisions on the fly. That's exactly the kind of president we have today, and nobody seems happy with that. Isn't it obvious?

Everyone is so "disappointed" in the Obama they grew to love in the Democratic primaries, but he was only appealing to Democrats. Now you get to see the Obama who wants to appeal to the most voters. Get used to it!

What if.. and I say what if, his first outlook was skewed, he said I am pulling out because noone else said it, now that he may really be president, he realizes , you can't. what stinks is I will vote for Mcain, because he wouldn't not leave these poor people in genocide, Bottom line, We F&((&ked up the place, WE need to fix our mistake. I have alway voted democrat, but wrong is wrong, We need to fix the mistake Bush left us in and left thee poor people in, If he actually acknowledges this fact, I think its a good thing.

People who think the war is wrong, I agree... But we are far beyond that point. Now we need to help what the previous admin messed up.

[edit on 5-7-2008 by ShiftTrio]

[edit on 5-7-2008 by ShiftTrio]

Uh... did you just compare a man completely altering the cornerstone of his entire campaign drastically with someone changing their college major? Did you seriously do that? That might be the most assinine "comparison" I've ever heard of.

I really hate to be the one to break this news to people here, but politicians lie. It's what they do. You don't get to where Obama is at unless you're willing to play the politician game. I'm guessing what happened here is that since getting the actual nomination, the great and powerful Wizard of Oz as portrayed by Obama, discovered that the actual man behind the curtain who's running the whole show had determined maybe the war in Iraq was a good thing to keep going for a bit. Now that they've eliminated the other candidates who the anti-war voters might support, people would have little recourse come election day and, either way, the war continues.

Barrack Hussein Obama is nothing more than a giant green hologram with a booming megaphone voice who is the public persona and cover-up for some heavily moneyed, heavily influential (possibly Soros) liberal politico.