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Obama changes his mind about iraq

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posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by Maya432
When some says that Left Wing Is Dangerous, then well..
thats the silliest thing I have ever heard...

Then you have not heard much, have you?



the left is for PEACE
the right is for war

which one would you pick?

Actually, your comment could be the silliest thing quoted today.

Where did you learn this? Liberals 'R' us?




posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by Truther
Because both partys in the run are controlled by the same people. Theres just an election proceedure to give people the idea they have freedom of choice. Its just a big act, how can you not see this?

Sorry, but I don't buy into your conspiracy theory.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
If you dont agree with him why would you vote for him? Are you just following party line? Is the lesser of two evils principle?

You are never going to agree 100% with someone. While I agree with McCain on some issues, I don't agree with Obama on practically everything and I believe his leftist views are dangerous.


I tend to think that holding your nose and voting for someone is precisely why there are so many problems in our political system. Why dont you vote for someone you want to win?

Do you know how the system works? I want McCain to win but he was not my first choice. Since the choice is Obama or McCain, I will vote for McCain.


There is no reason to be condescending, I was only asking a question. And yes I do know how our system works, I have a minor in political science. I understand that you cant agree 100% with everyone, but when you say holding your nose and voting for McCain, it implies that it is more than just not agreeing with him on a few subjects.

Could you provide examples of how leftist views are dangerous?
May I ask who your first choice was?
Do you realize that you can write in a candidate of your choice? Hell you can even write in your own name. So you are not forced to vote for McCain or Obama.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 03:52 PM
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The topic please folks.

"Obama changes his mind about iraq."

New thread coming on this.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by Maya432
When some says that Left Wing Is Dangerous, then well..
thats the silliest thing I have ever heard...

Then you have not heard much, have you?



the left is for PEACE
the right is for war

which one would you pick?

Actually, your comment could be the silliest thing quoted today.

Where did you learn this? Liberals 'R' us?


Obama clarified his statements: Troop Withdraw

“I have also said I would be deliberate and careful about how we get out. That position has not changed. I am not searching for maneuvering room with respect to that position.”

“I will bring our troops out at a pace of one two brigades a month” which would mean the United States would be totally out of Iraq in 16 months. “That is what I intend to do as president of the United States.”

But later in the session, he said it is possible the 16-month timeline could slip if the pace of withdrawal needs to be slowed some months to ensure troop safety. “I have always said ... I would always reserve the right to do what’s best,” Obama said.




In the history of the United States it would be accurate to say that the majority of the wars we were involved in were started while a Democrat was in office but in the last 30 years it would not be accurate to say that. In fact in the last 28 years a Republican has been in office for 20. In the last 14 years Republicans have had control Congress for 12 years.

Bush has openly claimed to be a "war president" and McCain has stated "I’m sorry to tell you, there’s going to be other wars."


McCain- More War

Bush- War President

[edit on 4-7-2008 by iamcamouflage]



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by iamcamouflage
There is no reason to be condescending, I was only asking a question.

Sorry if it came across that way because that was not my intention.


Could you provide examples of how leftist views are dangerous?

Because it leads to socialism and when unchecked like todays extreme liberals it becomes marxism bordering on communism.

May I ask who your first choice was?

I was still undecided, but my top three were either Duncan Hunter, Fred Thomas or Mitt Romney

Do you realize that you can write in a candidate of your choice? So you are not forced to vote for McCain or Obama.

I realize this but that would only help Obama win and I definitely don't want that to happen. The problem is a disagree with McCain on a few big issues but I also agree with him on some big issues. However, I feel if Obama would get into office our country will never recover.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
The topic please folks.
"Obama changes his mind about iraq."


You betchya!

Obama 'changes his mind'. Did he ?? I don't know about that.

He got the Dem nomination after campaigning and posting on his website his intention to bring all the troops home within 16 months. Many people voted for him in the primaries due to this promise.

Now that he has the nomination he is suddenly starting to sound like Hillary Clinton. He's now using her language and her 'plan' for Iraq.

Either he was a total idiot and had no clue about what was involved in troop withdrawl (considering his severe inexperience this is possible) ... OR ... he knew it all along and was just pandering to the people and telling them what they wanted to hear in order for him to get the dem nomination.

Either way - it's just politics as usual. NO change. NO hope. NO unity.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
However, I feel if Obama would get into office our country will never recover.


America is on a downward spiral, unless there is drastic measures taken soon, it will never recover, i think ron paul was the last real chance, there will be no change if either mccain or obama make office.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 



"Because it leads to socialism and when unchecked like todays extreme liberals it becomes marxism bordering on communism. "

We are currently in a hybrid socialist system. Problems can arise in any type of government system. Like others have said we currently have a very corrupt democratic system, that utilizes a "free" market only when its convenient. Likewise when unchecked democratic and free market systems are easily corruptible. But i think its unfair to claim that leftist ideals can lead to communism.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on the direction that we feel this country should move towards.

I think that Barack has been taken out of context as shown by his clarification. For the most part his statements have been that he would start troop withdraws as soon as he got into office, his goal being 16 months but i think everyone knows that any withdraw from a war zone has to be a calculated and dynamic move in order to keep our troops as safe as possible. Getting out of Iraq, logistically will be a much bigger task than getting in. I think if he were to start a withdraw as soon as he gets in office, he would still be maintaining his political promise.

Again as others have said we are in a very corrupt system where both parties are much closer than most realize. And I cannot say what the best solution is for fixing it.

[edit on 4-7-2008 by iamcamouflage]



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Im staying on topic, what it all boils down to at the end of the day is obama is a liar, he made people think in the run off with hilrod that he would withdraw the troops from iraq, now he's the democratic nominee.

They lie and they lie just to get what they want, and when they have it its to hell with what they were promising in the run up.

it makes me sick to the bone.

My view is that every american should march up on the white house and sack everyone, democrats and republicans cause they have run your beautifull country into the ground, they have sold there people out for money and power..



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Truther
he made people think in the run off with hilrod that he would withdraw the troops from iraq, now he's the democratic nominee.


Exactly my point. I don't know if he 'changed his mind'. This could have been his pandering tactic all along. He could have been telling the people what they wanted to hear during the primaries just so he could get the democratic nomination ... knowing full well that his plans were bunk and that he'd just change them after he got the nod.

NOW he's sounding like Hillary!

Either he was a total idiot and had no clue what was going on with withdrawl OR he had planned this 'change' all along.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Truther
he made people think in the run off with hilrod that he would withdraw the troops from iraq, now he's the democratic nominee.


Exactly my point. I don't know if he 'changed his mind'. This could have been his pandering tactic all along. He could have been telling the people what they wanted to hear during the primaries just so he could get the democratic nomination ... knowing full well that his plans were bunk and that he'd just change them after he got the nod.

NOW he's sounding like Hillary!

Either he was a total idiot and had no clue what was going on with withdrawl OR he had planned this 'change' all along.




For sure, He knew what he was doing, there all profesional liars..

Id say that this was planned from day one.

We really dont stand a chance in this world do we,
we need to get rid of these people..



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Truther
Obama has changed his mind about promising to bring the troops home from Iraq within 16 months of being elected.

Now he wants to "study" the implications and visit the area this summer to determine the right course of action.


This is "changing his mind"? Where did he change his mind? Bringing the troops home and studying the implications are not exclusive of each other. He can do both.

Where is his new statement that he has "changed his mind"?



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


ABSOLUTELY politics as usual. These guys are all professional liars and BS artists. Very rarely does any of the rhetorical promises they bellow out pre-election get upheld once they've cemented their statuses. This is a prime example of the continual predatory deception that these pathological liars use to fool a gullible and desperate (for change) populace. People bought into it hook line and sinker. And the guy ain't even prez yet. lol!



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Hes shying away from what he promised, that is the point.
There should be no discussion, pull the troops out and get the hell outta there!

I cant believe people cant see what is going on here, if he was a man of morals like ron paul, he would got his head blown off by now, he is a team player..



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by Truther
Obama has changed his mind about promising to bring the troops home from Iraq within 16 months of being elected.

Now he wants to "study" the implications and visit the area this summer to determine the right course of action.


This is "changing his mind"? Where did he change his mind? Bringing the troops home and studying the implications are not exclusive of each other. He can do both.

Where is his new statement that he has "changed his mind"?


Agreed, i'm not understanding where people are getting that he changed his mind. Is anyone even reading the articles posted? He said he plans to start withdrawing the troops as soon as he gets in office. I believe his goal is still 16 months but there are logistical issue involved in ending this war/removing troops and I would hope that someone has the intelligence to evaluate the situation and make changes on the fly according to what is actually happening. He wants to make the withdraw as safe as possible. If someone blows up the oil fields in Iraq and creates a towering wall of oil fire surrounding the country, I hope he re-evaluates the withdraw and doesnt march our troops into a fire storm.

If your on the 5th floor of a burning building, is your first choice for exit to jump out the window? Granted it may be the fastest but is it really the smart thing to do, dont you think checking to see if there is a stairway or some other safe form of safe exit, a much more intelligent option.


I am by no means a die hard Obama supporter but I do tend to subscribe to, as WhatTheory would put it "dangerous leftist views" and will probably vote for him or myself. But there is nothing in those articles that says he changed his mind. Changing his mind would be to say that he is not going to withdraw the troops.



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Truther
Hes shying away from what he promised, that is the point.


Is he, though? Are you sure that's what's happening? I get that you suspect him, but are you sure?

If I say I'm going to go to college for 6 years and become a doctor... Then, as my college time approaches and I start applying to different schools and gathering data, I realize that if I take 7 years, I can go into a specialty that I've always wanted to... and so I refine my plan to include the extra schooling. I'm still going to go to school and become a doctor, but the plan I had for doing that was slightly refined... Do I give up all hope of having any integrity? Have I "changed my mind"?



There should be no discussion, pull the troops out and get the hell outta there!


Hey, I totally agree! I want us OUT and I want us out NOW. But I'm not there. I don't have the qualifications to make the decision even if I were there. And if I were going to make this move, you can bet I would check all the possibilities, dot all the "i"s and cross the "t"s.

Imagine the bloody onslaught of attacks from the GOP if he didn't take exceptional care in getting our troops out of there.

I think Obama's plan to talk with the generals and gather more data before he COMMITS to a firm strategy is just about the smartest thing a person could do.

After all, aren't we all too aware of what happens when "fools rush in"?





[edit on 4-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by Truther
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Hes shying away from what he promised, that is the point.
There should be no discussion, pull the troops out and get the hell outta there!

I cant believe people cant see what is going on here, if he was a man of morals like ron paul, he would got his head blown off by now, he is a team player..


I am all for getting the troops out of Iraq(I was against them going in the first place) and I can agree with you about RP, but Obama hasnt done anything yet and believe it or not he isnt even president yet. It sounds great to say get the troops out as fast as possible but seriously we are talking about 150,000 people in a war zone! There is not an easy way to do this. Again, he has not stated anywhere that he has changed his mind about withdrawing the troops, only that its going to be complicated and with all the logistical problems this could take longer than 16 months.

Why dont we hold some of this criticism for if and/or when he gets elected and states that he is not going to withdraw the troops. Believe me I will be the first one on this board ripping Obama if he doesnt follow through on his policies.

[edit on 4-7-2008 by iamcamouflage]



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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Didnt we go over this...

Yesterday... the same story...



www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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The real truth is,
Obama, if elected, will have been so under a mandate of "no more iraq war!" and the people will buckle down on his arse HARD if he goes back on it. There'd be protests, riots, mayhem! cry havok! and let slip the dogs of WAR!

He'd make Nixon look like a joke .. just get into office and pull those troops , NOW SIR! lol ..

[edit on 7/4/2008 by runetang]



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