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I've never been one to demand purity from political candidates I support. While I would like to agree with them on all issues (or to put it more accurately -- would like them to agree with me on all issues...), I gave up expecting that in the eighth grade when I lost my race for vice-president due to a woeful lack of understanding by my classmates.
...
And so it's with bemusement that I see all the angst about Barack Obama's positions on the FISA bill, faith-based programs, and the horror that he's "moving to the center."
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I haven't been pleased at him softening several other issues that helped bring him overwhelming popularity in Democratic and Independent circles. Maybe it's a mistake for him, maybe smart. But I understand it. The battlefield changes. It's what happens. And happens reasonably. To say, "Oh, we thought he was different," ignores the reality that he is different, even if not different in every way. It also ignores that, like with our friends, the good things one likes about him far outweigh what makes us gnash our teeth. And significantly, it ignores that as progressive as Barack Obama is -- he also came to national attention by drawing people together in the center, that we are not Red States or Blue States, but the United States. That's as much a part of who he is and has always been, not a flip or flop in sight.
Moreover, perspective is important: it's one thing to soften one's views, and another to reverse them completely, as John McCain keeps doing, whether being against offshore drilling and then supporting it. Or against oppressive immigration policies and then for them. Or saying we'll be greeted as liberators in Iraq and later insisting he was always critical of how the war was run.
Originally posted by Open_Minded Skeptic
(interestingly, I have never spoken to any Obama supporter who feels this way. I'm sure there are some, but in my personal experience, the vast majority of people who spout that are in the fear Obama camp, and seem to insist that support of Obama = worship of same... )
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Now, we get called "Kool-aid drinkers" and "Obamatrons" because of our support for Obama, as if we would follow him to the ends of the earth and give our lives for him, if he only requested it, but nothing could be further from the truth. That's just a GOP strategy to try to make Obama supporters feel guilty or cult-like for supporting him.
I haven't been pleased at him softening several other issues that helped bring him overwhelming popularity in Democratic and Independent circles. Maybe it's a mistake for him, maybe smart. But I understand it. The battlefield changes. It's what happens.
To say, "Oh, we thought he was different," ignores the reality that he is different, even if not different in every way. It also ignores that, like with our friends, the good things one likes about him far outweigh what makes us gnash our teeth.
And significantly, it ignores that as progressive as Barack Obama is -- he also came to national attention by drawing people together in the center, that we are not Red States or Blue States, but the United States. That's as much a part of who he is and has always been, not a flip or flop in sight.
Originally posted by Tuning Spork
Obama is by far the least qualified person ever to win the nomination of a major party.
Translation: Obama is just another politician. I hoped that he was who he said he was, but clearly he is a political opportunist.
How is he "different"?
He's managed to expunge his entire voting record when he was in the Illinois senate, and was available to cast his vote on many important issues in the U.S. senate but opted to vote "present".
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
One criticism of Obama is that he voted “Present” 129 times in his 8 years as a State Senator. Firstly, 129 “Present” votes represent a whopping 3.2% of the over 4,000 total votes he cast, so 96.8% of the time, he voted either Yea or Nay.
So who is he? What does he believe?
Furthermore, such changes of position at a core level is NOT normal.
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The tacking to the center for the general election that occurs after the primaries is usually a matter of emphasis, not substance.
Pure Hope-Change-Unity rhetoric. This is his strength?
This is why you still support him, BH?
In the end, all this article is really saying is, "I still support Obama because, now that he's the Democtratic nominee, he's all I've got."
Originally posted by Tuning Spork
It was Obama's anti-war position that made him attractive to the energetic young "progressives"
How important were these facts to his success in the primaries? Extremely. With only 24 months in the senate before running for the presidency full-time, Obama is by far the least qualified person ever to win the nomination of a major party.
You have to be a natural-born US Citizen (a citizen from birth - but not necessarily born in the USA, which is a common misconception).
You have to be at least 35 years of age.
You have to reside in the US for at least 14 years.
But, if the principles that Obama ran on the primaries are not as important to him as they are to the primary voters, what reason would his champions have to continue to support him. Well, let's have a look at what this article is really saying. First we have the expression of disappointment; then a rationalization:
I haven't been pleased at him softening several other issues that helped bring him overwhelming popularity in Democratic and Independent circles. Maybe it's a mistake for him, maybe smart. But I understand it. The battlefield changes. It's what happens.
Translation: Obama is just another politician. I hoped that he was who he said he was, but clearly he is a political opportunist.
To say, "Oh, we thought he was different," ignores the reality that he is different, even if not different in every way. It also ignores that, like with our friends, the good things one likes about him far outweigh what makes us gnash our teeth.
How is he "different"? Is he a progressive? He's managed to expunge his entire voting record when he was in the Illinois senate, and was available to cast his vote on many important issues in the U.S. senate but opted to vote "present".
In the end, all this article is really saying is, "I still support Obama because, now that he's the Democtratic nominee, he's all I've got." That's fine if that's how you choose to look at it. But isn't that really saying, "we would follow him to the ends of the earth...cult-like...if he only requested it", only the cult is not Obama specifically, it's politics in general?
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm an old hippie who supports the 2nd amendment, thinks illegal immigrants should be sent back to where they came from, is pro-choice, supports legal, legitimate war and thinks gays should be able to get married.
I have said in countless posts how I think he is different. I'm not going to go over it all here.
He's proactive, intelligent, thoughtful, has integrity, strength and honor. That's just a start.
(I'm refering to the centrists out there, the swing voters, not you or I neccessarily, BH.)
www.abovetopsecret.com...
How will he govern? I'm looking forward to finding out.
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He has changed his mind about a couple things, but that's no crime or sin and it's not been enough to throw me off. I still believe he will be a great president.
I thought he would make things interesting. And he certainly has.
Originally posted by Tuning Spork
You don't want me to research all of your ATS posts just for the sake of this thread, do ya?
He's proactive, intelligent, thoughtful, has integrity, strength and honor. That's just a start.
But doesn't that make this entire discussion moot? I mean, you and I aren't going to change each others minds on this.
Yes, he has. But the future is about facts and issues not just good intentions.
Obama beat Hillary for the nomination because he said he wanted to bug out of Iraq. And nowadays he sounds more like Hillary and McCain than Ron Paul or Dennis Kuscinich.
Has the base been hoodwinked? Bamboozled? Is this just another shyster who'll say anything and do anything (think public financing) to get elected? So much for all that "post-partisanship".
Again, I agree. But you should know by now that there are those of us who don't fit "the base". ")
In my opinion (of course ), the base has every right to be angry with him. ---->
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I gotta go put some buffalo on the BBQ.
Originally posted by justamomma
what i want is 100% honesty and someone who wants to fight to get this country back to the principles it was founded on.
the reasons that i am so adamently against obama have nothing to do w/ the side issues, but everything to do w/ the fact he is anti american.
just out to get this, my country, back to what it is supposed to be.