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Jerusalem: Police order terrorist's family to dismantle mourning tent

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posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 09:55 AM
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Jerusalem: Police order terrorist's family to dismantle mourning tent


www.jpost.com

Jerusalem border police ordered the family of Husam Taysir Dwayat - the man who perpetrated the deadly bulldozer terror attack in Jerusalem on Wednesday - to dismantle a mourning tent which they were erecting in memory of the man on Thursday.

Officers who had been stationed in the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Sur Bahir following yesterday's attack observed members of the Dwayat family beginning the process of establishing the tent, despite explicit instructions from Jerusalem police chief.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 09:55 AM
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Earlier on Thursday, Vice Premier Haim Ramon said that Sur Bahir, the hometown of Husam Taysir Dwayat, as well Jebl Mukaber, the village of the Mercaz Harav terrorist, should be treated like any Palestinian village; they should be separated from Jerusalem and all of their residents should be stripped of their Israeli identity cards.

One of the central reasons for the ease with which yesterday's attack and the murder in Mercaz Harav were perpetrated is the fact that these are Palestinian villages that for some reason are called 'Jerusalem' - Jebl Mukaber and Sur Bahir," Ramon told Army Radio. "They must be treated as if they were Ramallah, Bethlehem or Jenin."

"These are Palestinian villages that were never part of Jerusalem; they were annexed in 1967. No Israeli was there and no one goes near there," Ramon continued. "If the fence were west of the two villages; those that for some reason we call neighborhoods of Jerusalem, it would be far harder to carry out such attacks. They must not have blue identity cards - how many more Israelis must die before this is decided."


Sure I understand having issues with a human being who decided to become a terrorist but in the words of the Israeli premier I can see why Israel has so many problems. The divisive 'Us vrs Them mentality he displays. The utter contempt and disdain for those "who should not be part of Israel" clearly demonstrates the fundamental roots of Israels problems. From the begining of the establishment of Israel that government has refused to show the Palestinians any form of respect and as a result created this unending conflict.

I do not support terrorism or violence of any kind as a solution to any conflict, but I see Israel as the main sponsor of terrorism in the region. Hiding behind a flag and a military complex does not make your actions justifiable.

Fine Mr. Haim Ramon treat them like "Ramallah, Bethlehem or Jenin" or build a wall to block them out. Treat them like the lowly humans you see them as I am sure that will help a lot.

www.jpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by Animal
 



"...No Israeli was there and no one goes near there,"

It sounds like he does not consider Palestinians people.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by Animal
 



"...No Israeli was there and no one goes near there,"

It sounds like he does not consider Palestinians people.


My point exactly.

One of my father's best friends is a man from Tel Aviv. They were talking one day, and I over herd, about the creation of the state of Israel.

They were talking about a man in the initial government, I can not remember his name nor his position, for some reason I think it was something like "secretary of State. They were talking about how the man gave a speech on how Israel must build a strong relationship with the Palestinians. About how they needed to foster friendship, respect, and mutual trust. This man was basically booed and quickly removed from office.

This is from a discussion from a man born and raised in Israel. Tonight I will ask my dad for names so I can clarify this.

My point is that Israel acts like a greedy spoiled child. I am so tired of Palestine being vilified when Israel is given free reign to act as it does.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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Well, to be fair, I think we should have some respect for the people he killed. After all, the guy is a murderer and probable terrorist who killed or injured dozens of people. Time to get a little perspective.

I'm pretty sure Americans would have a problem with Atta's mom setting up a mourning tent at Ground Zero, no?



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


Despite what the man did his family still have a right, and need, to mourn his death.

Remember the asian kid here in the USA that went on a shooting rampage at one of the colleges? Remember what his families response was? Basically something like: "we are horrified that he did this, we are so heart broken and shocked. We ask that the media give us time and space to mourn and heal".... Guess what? The media did just that. Ya the man made a terrible mistake and committed a horrible crime, but that does not mean his FAMILY should loose the right to suffer over the situation. You say we need to "gain a little" perspective, and I whole heartedly agree.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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reply to post by TheComte
 


Unfortunately there are probably some so-called "Americans" here at ATS that would have no problem with that at all. Disgusting, but almost certainly true.

Personally, I no longer care what Israel does there. Time and time again we've seen truces and cease fires broken by the Palestinians. They clearly don't want peace and I'm not even sure they deserve it.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:22 AM
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A bit more for showing some perspective:



Ramon voiced disagreement with the view of Olmert and several other ministers, claiming that demolishing the terrorist's house would do nothing to prevent further attacks. However, he said, the demolition must be carried out regardless - if the law allows it. "We must adapt the law to policy and not give up," he said. "Whatever can be done must be done as soon as possible."


Destroying his families home for his actions? Hateful and no wonder there is perpetual violence.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


As if it were a simple military matter. Do you know why there is violence over there? What do you think they are fighting over, ideas? Nope that is what the USA does (Drugs, Terrorism, etc...).

These people are fighting over the LIMITED resources that they have used to survive for thousands of years which have been TAKEN away from them by Israel. Simply saying "well, we will stop shooting missiles into your towns from helicopters and crushing your towns with bulldozers if you stop shooting at us" is a BAND AID. Without dealing with the CAUSE of the tension there will always be tension.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Animal]



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:36 AM
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Originally posted by Animal
Remember the asian kid here in the USA that went on a shooting rampage at one of the colleges? Remember what his families response was? Basically something like: "we are horrified that he did this, we are so heart broken and shocked. We ask that the media give us time and space to mourn and heal".... Guess what? The media did just that.


That's what makes America better than Israel. And I agree that Israel is not innocent in any way. That Ramon sounds like a real radical. Pretty much everything he says I don't agree with.

The family should mourn. In private. And I don't agree that the house should be destroyed. I don't see why they have to make a public spectacle of it. Are they setting up the tent on their own private property? The article doesn't say so I assume it's public property.

Like Burdman, I think neither side really wants peace. It's just one violent act after another, back and forth. Probably will go on long past my lifetime. I'm not defending either side. Just commenting that it's not in good taste to mourn a murderer in public view, in the country of his victims.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by TheComte]

[edit on 3-7-2008 by TheComte]



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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Well i would like to tell you that there is no discrimination of Israeli Arabs, but it is not the case. It is a little better now,but a lot, and i mean a LOT needs to be done.
However you must be aware that there is going to be Palestinian state. So non-Israeli = sub human is wrong. Non Israeli means that it is going to be part of future Palestine. The right wing in the Israeli politics actually wants these villages to remain in Israel ,and left wing wants them to be in Palestine. You should see in this context what Ramon (left wing figure, former labor party member) has said. The wall is built not according to security/geographical/geopolitical/humanistic considerations but as a constant compromise between different power groups, so sometimes (often) people who do not consider them self Israeli are inside Israel side of the wall and sometimes (rarely) the opposite.
Also you are probably aware that Israel (mainly Israeli Jewish population) are in constant bloody conflict with Palestinian population (mainly Arabic) so both sides are very intolerant to each other. Israeli in Palestinian territories can easily be injured or even killed just for that and so are not allowed by law to enter those areas. Palestinian in Israel is treated as potential terrorist and so it is also a bad situation to be in. Israeli Arabs are of course in better position but as i said it is far from what it should be. When i will hear that there is the same amount of Arabs in high managing/bureaucratic/government positions as it is in population - it will probably not be so then.
As for this event - i also think that this tent should not be built. It is not just mourning family and friends/relatives. Members of terrorist organizations come, make martyr speeches and donate money, posters of these organizations are often (as in the last case) hung in this tent. So i am against this "terror legacy" site. Sorry. His family can mourn without all this blood feast going on.
But the same approach should be applied with Jewish terrorists. Not the case and this is the problem in my opinion,not if should terrorist memory be celebrated or not.
As for "spoiled child" - spoiled by wars and constant bloodshed maybe.
Edit:
Almost forgot! About house destroyed. This is nonsense and should not be even mentioned by politicains. But there are possible elections in the near future so they talk to get media resonance.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by ZeroKnowledge]



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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I would make sure his family and extended family were removed from any employment inside of israel, recieved no benefits from any government agency, and left high and dry.

The want to erect a tent to mourn this nasty little piece of vermin ? he took 3 lives in a deliberate act of hate and malice.

I would make sure that any one who applauded his efforts also gets the same treatment.

Bulldoze his house ? damn right I would too.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


Interesting points, thanks for sharing.

A few questions for you, first of which is do you live in the area?

If you do, Where are these tents set up?

Is it common for the home of a terrorist in the region to be demolished? Do these people tend to live in multi-generational homes?

Can you talk about water rights and rights to agricultural lands and how an arrangement between Palestine and Israel is arranged?

And a ending comment, yes I see Israel as a spoiled child. This is a state created by the west for the people of Israel. The government enjoys the financial, political, and military support of the USA and other nations. They now own land that another nation had been living on for thousands of years yet act as if the can build something not unlike native american reservations in the USA by leveling communities with bulldozers and missile while flooding into them to overwhelm them with people. It is not a reasonable policy and it does not work. The standard routine of saying it is Palestine's fault because they are violent is only 50% true, Israel has an equal roll to play in creating peace and yet their actions are not scrutinized because they violence they perpetuate at the core is more insidious and hard to see, it revolves around resources, access, and space.

reply to post by Dan Tanna
 


What is it about the type of retaliation you are touting that makes you think the situation will be improved through these actions. Did it ever occur to you that maybe "a little LESS gun" is the first step to resolving conflict? Sure, if it is that important take away the families ability to publicly mourn THEIR loss, what ever makes you feel better. But destroying a families home? Wow....

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Animal]



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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they should take his family and the tent out to the border at then leave them there telling them not to come back.....



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


1) Well i live in Jerusalem but in the other end, almost 4 miles (according to goggle map) away. So i definitely cannot see it. Read in a newspaper this mourning that it is being built despite police warnings.
2)It is common to destroy a house in a non-Israeli territory. Again, conflict consequences and such. To destroy house of Israeli citizens because person was a terrorist is very problematic. What about Jewish terrorist who gunned down Israeli Arabs? Why not demolish it too then?
As for multi-generations - in most cases it is true but not always. Do not know what about this case.
3) This is a hard question. Agricultural land is going to be according to
boundaries/settlements/1967 history and such. If you imply that majority of fertile land will remain in Israel - yes it is. But not everywhere.Part of Gaza area (former Gush Katif) was one of most fertile lands. A lot of agricultural lands in Israel are maintainable only due to high tech achievements. So it could be the same in Palestine, no one tried it there yet.
And here is even tougher part - water. Now Palestinians are using Israeli system (often poor quality since no one pays for maintenance)
and i suspect that it will be in the final agreement. Palestine would not be able to provide water to its population by itself. And i hope that Israel will be able to do it since water situation here is very bad.
These are my assumptions of course, politics tend to be unexpected sometimes.
Also ,as an ending comment on ending comment. No nation lived in Palestine for thousands of years. Arab in province of Palestine did not consider himself different from Arab in Damascus. Palestinian national movement is a direct result of Zionist national movement and Zionism is not older then century and a half.
And if it revolved only around resources access and space it all was solved in 1948. There is also a mix of religion,nationalism and heavy mutual distrust and hatred. Now these are real problem.
Edit. Oops. Missed a word. Or two.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by ZeroKnowledge]



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


Thanks for your reply mate. I like Jerusalem, I was there for a few week about 12 years ago. I appreciate how you talk about the complexity of the situation and the reality on the ground.

A few things I appreciate as they validate my point; the fact that the home being multi-generational is "in most cases it is true but not always" means that the call to demolish the home is an act of aggression of people who may or may not have been involved in the act of violence.

In terms of agriculture, Israel has possession of most of the fertile lands and adding more agricultural land in the area requires highly sophisticated techniques and materials not readily available to a poorer nation.

In addition to this is the shift in accessibility to water. Palestine is dependent on Israel for water because traditional methods of using the commons (agricultural lands and water) have been altered by the establishment of a more 'modernized' nation that uses its environment in a more managed / built form.

You note that there is a mix of religion,nationalism and heavy mutual distrust and hatred. Now these are real problem."

It is MHO that making fundamental changes that uphold peoples right to life and culture in the region would be a major step towards resolving the conflict.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Animal]



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


the aribs took isralie soil once apon a time. then the people get the guts to take it back in the 40's and all the sudden every liberal starts crying about how unfair and wrong it was. boo hoo. resources maybe the point of the conflict but guess who is winning right now. the same people who want peace but have to fight bulldozers rocket attacks and bombings daily.

a few years ago isralies had the palistine surrounded by tanks. the president was on his knees begging for forgiveness. so the isralies gave it to him. what did he do in return. nothing at all alowed terriosts to contuine to act from his soil. next time isreal takes palistine in just 4 short hours they need to keep it...




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