Will You Accept Obama as Your New President if He Wins the Election?

I will certainly recognize the results of the election as legitimate if he wins. So as a matter of political fact, yes, I will accept a president-elect Obama if that happens.

On the other hand, it is highly unlikely that I will ever accept Obama as a president who represents my values, beliefs and positions on policy. He simply does not, and unless he undergoes a major transformation into a center-right president from the left-wing candidate he currently is, I never will.

I think the real question is whether or not the Obama supporters would accept the legitimacy of a McCain win this fall. I think that many of them won't. Even four months out, some already seem to be saying that if McCain wins, it'll have to be because he 'stole' the election. I'm not aiming that at anyone in this particular thread, BTW.

Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by MrWendal

 

So you are suggesting a new revolution. We already had one, and many feel we are right back where we started. What good will another do when afterward we will need a third?

I would never suggest such a thing because by law that would make me a domestic terrorist and an enemy combatant who can be stripped of all rights that I have left, held indefinitely and tortured.

I do have to ask though.... When did we already have a revolution? The last one I can recall is the only one we have ever had. The one that gave us our rights that we are supposed to have right now.

I would also suggest that if it takes three revolution to make sure people have their freedoms that are granted to them under the Bill of Rights, The Declaration of Independence, and the US Constitution... the I would think it is well worth 3 Revolutions and so be it. Again I say...I think the real question here is what are you willing to sacrifice for your freedom? I feel that is the question everyone should be asking themselves at this point.

all you have to go and do is look at either of the candidates issues to understand that neither are for getting this country back on track, if you really understand the history.

obama is for the expansion of the government under the guise of watchdog groups, he is for taking our hard earned money as individuals and doling it out where he sees or "claims" he sees fit (which if you need a short education on why this is wrong... reply to post by justamomma
), he is for sticking his nose into the private businesses and lives of ppl, he's against individuality, he is everything....... just like mccain.... that our founding fathers willingly shed their blood to fight against.

the government has gotten too big and this "acceptance" is WILL come and bite us all hard in the A if we don't stop buying the lies.

any politician that speaks about how he is going to make your life better is to be avoided at all costs (which they pretty much have us screwed on that at this point). we are capable of taking responsibility for our life and that is what the system we were meant to be under, the constitutional republic, allowed for. smaller govt' and more personal responsibility.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


Very well said!

People need to wake up and accept responsibility for this Government and now need to do what it takes to correct it. We are forced to pick the lesser of 2 evils every time. All the while they serve the best interest of their respective PARTIES, Corporate Interest and the Global Elite instead of the PEOPLE that they are elected to serve and who's interest they are supposed to be serving.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Thanks for the input BT, but in case you haven't noticed, that is already happening in this global economy. I have a good job and many things that others don't and I know that will not last forever, but that will not be due to whether we elect Obama or not.

Obama has already stated he's going to raise taxes. When you take my current situation and up the taxes, it goes downhill a little. That's simple math. All of this money he's spending for his plans has to come from somewhere and I know that a portion of it's coming from my back pocket.

reply to post by Hal9000


This country is NOT and was NEVER intended to be a democracy!!!
It's amazing how many people just can't seem to grasp that.

reply to post by MrWendal

I don't understand. Both you and justamamma seem to be blaming Obama for the current situation. Yes our rights have been diminished, yes the government is out of control. How is that Obama's fault? He is not the president yet.

Originally posted by MrWendal
I do have to ask though.... When did we already have a revolution? The last one I can recall is the only one we have ever had. The one that gave us our rights that we are supposed to have right now.

Is anyone disputing this fact? Please quote the part that you are referring to with this post.

It sounds to me that both of you only believe that violence is the answer, yet nothing would be more devastating to this country, so please don't try to recruit me into your revolution. The correct way to make any changes is from within democratically. If you have to force others to accept your ideology, you will never win.

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
Obama has already stated he's going to raise taxes. When you take my current situation and up the taxes, it goes downhill a little. That's simple math. All of this money he's spending for his plans has to come from somewhere and I know that a portion of it's coming from my back pocket.

Yes, I agree that he will undoubtedly try to raise taxes. He has many social programs planned, but they are nothing more than proposals at this point. I said he is not the perfect candidate, but if you are worried about government spending then why aren't you protesting the billions being spent on the war in Iraq? The last fiscally responsible president we had was also a liberal.

reply to post by Hal9000


no, i don't blame obama, but obama is by far not an answer to the problem. the problem lies w/ the ppl for being ill informed of what was fought against by those who founded this country. the problem lies w/ the ppl for refusing to become more informed of what this country is meant to be (the system really is golden when followed correctly). the problem lies w/ ppl who are accepting of "the lesser of two evils" bc they naively fall for the lie that these are the only two choices. the fault clearly lies w/ none others than the citizens of this country and you will realize this when you truly deny ignorance and start being informed of how this country was set up and should be run.

obama and mccain are not the fault..... they are simply not the answer. the fault and the answer lie w/ the citizens of the country.

Not that I'd have much of a choice, but yes, regardless of whom is elected [or appointed] President, I will accept that person. We won't really know what that person is about, what their intentions are, how effective they are at their job, how well they can work with Congress, all of that..... until the days following them taking office. It doesn't seem like a happy time to me, and will have global repercussions regardless of who that elected President is. I still think it'd be a good thing if the winner were President and second place the Vice-President.

No, I won't accept him as my president. I don't trust him. In fact, I don't trust any politician. My faith in these people is dead.

This man represents one thing, and it's the same thing every other politician represents, no one's interests but his own.

Originally posted by Hal9000
reply to post by MrWendal

 

So you are suggesting a new revolution. We already had one, and many feel we are right back where we started. What good will another do when afterward we will need a third?

My response was in response to this post. Also at no point in time have I suggested a violent revolution nor have I attempted to recruit anyone for anything and I do not appreciate the comments suggesting that is what I am doing.

Also, I have not blamed Obama for anything, I am saying that Obama is more of the same corrupt system that is failing us anyway. I am saying Obama is one of the chosen who will follow the same old agenda that does not protect my rights or do anything for me as an Individual. Obama's message of "change" is a lie. That sir, is what I am saying.

Again I repeat the last post of page 1... You said yourself he is not the perfect Candidate so why would you vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

reply to post by justamomma

I agree that many people in this country are not too well informed. That is because we lead a comfortable life and has nothing to do with intelligence. They do seem to be well enough informed on some issues like the war. Many that earlier supported the war in Iraq have changed their mind and that gives me hope. The other candidate choices you say we have don't even have a snowballs chance in Iraq of being elected and therefore will not make the needed changes, so for me it is not an option, but I understand your position.

reply to post by argentus

I agree we really won't know exactly how anyone will be until they are elected president. The way Congress is divided down party lines makes it difficult to get anything done. I am optimistic that Obama may be able to overcome some of these problems. A lot will depend on how we also vote for members of Congress, and as previously mentioned some are unhappy with them and they have a lower approval rating than GB.

You never know. He may surprise us.

reply to post by Hal9000


i can and must respect this. i do understand what you are saying too. the last election i almost voted for president bush bc to me, at the time w/ the limited knowledge i had of what this country was set up to be, i thought he was the lesser of two evils.

i went all the way into the "voting booth" w/ him in mind to vote for. i stood there, just me myself and i for quite some time (small town, so i could) w/ all these words from the republican convention flooding my mind. i kept telling my hand "just do it..... you can't NOT vote" and the only person at the time who actually stood for this country i could name now and doubt any of you have heard of.

minute after minute. vote right or vote lesser of two evils. i voted right. last second. in all good conscience this is our country and its future we are talking about and yet so many (not you....... just saying in general) make it a flippant choice and don't understand that these ppl ARE respresenting US. they screw up, we screw up.... BUT they can't screw up if we don't screw up first.

i have a clear conscience w/ my vote from that election year and you can't buy that.

never again will i even assume i don't have the choice but btw the lesser of two evils. that is no choice at all and that is not what are country was meant to be. you have a voice and if more ppl would believe this, then maybe we could turn the votes around.

lets say obama gets in and things get worse.. you said "lesser of two evils" but still voted for him. THEN you WON'T have the right to complain. you are better off not voting IMO. but, it is you and your conscience.

just my two cents. if more ppl believe in US rather than THEM, things could change.



[edit on 2-7-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by MrWendal
My response was in response to this post. Also at no point in time have I suggested a violent revolution nor have I attempted to recruit anyone for anything and I do not appreciate the comments suggesting that is what I am doing.

Then I apologize, I probably misread your post. I mentioned recruiting for the revolution, because of this statement from this post.

Originally posted by MrWendal
The question we have to ask ourselves is what are you willing to sacrifice for your freedom?

That kind of sounds like you were, IMHO.

Also, I have not blamed Obama for anything, I am saying that Obama is more of the same corrupt system that is failing us anyway. I am saying Obama is one of the chosen who will follow the same old agenda that does not protect my rights or do anything for me as an Individual. Obama's message of "change" is a lie. That sir, is what I am saying.

Well sir, I agree that there are many things wrong with the system. Is that what you want to hear? The only problem is that you are not offering any practical alternative option. Ether John McCain or Barack Obama is going to be the next president and that is a fact. Nothing we can do between now and then is going to change that outcome.

Again I repeat the last post of page 1... You said yourself he is not the perfect Candidate so why would you vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

Because I am not going to waste my vote and because I refuse to not be heard. My vote originally was going to be against any republican regardless of who it was, but I have since come to admire Obama. No he is not perfect, but you will never find a candidate that you completely agree with.

I am hopeful that Obama wins, and I think the chances of his policies lowering the quality of life for anybody but the ultra-rich elite powerful war mongers is essentially zero.

Obama impresses me on several fronts. He is the first leader I've seen in a long time that actually acknowledges that conflicts have two legitimate sides. the ability to examine and understand both sides of an issue and then look for common grounds is a quality that is necessary for successful negotiations. Bush totally lacks this quality which is why he has been such an unsuccessful negotiator.

We need a President that understands energy in terms that are greater than just oil. I was pleasantly surprised while reading a blog that Obama was actually aware of the Bussard polywell fusion reactor.

We need a leader who identifies with all the people as people not a leader who only sees the lives of his rich elite friends as worth anything and everyone else's lives as disposable.

And for once we need a leader that isn't already senile with Alzheimer's setting in. So yes, I will accept Obama.

Originally posted by justamomma
i can and must respect this. i do understand what you are saying too. the last election i almost voted for president bush bc to me, at the time w/ the limited knowledge i had of what this country was set up to be, i thought he was the lesser of two evils.

I appreciate that you respect my opinion as I do yours.

i went all the way into the "voting booth" w/ him in mind to vote for. i stood there, just me myself and i for quite some time (small town, so i could) w/ all these words from the republican convention flooding my mind. i kept telling my hand "just do it..... you can't NOT vote" and the only person at the time who actually stood for this country i could name now and doubt any of you have heard of.

I have no problem with voting for an alternative party what so ever. I think it is great that you do vote and that is the most important part of the process. Otherwise how will we know what the majority of the people want?

minute after minute. vote right or vote lesser of two evils. i voted right. last second. in all good conscience this is our country and its future we are talking about and yet so many (not you....... just saying in general) make it a flippant choice and don't understand that these ppl ARE respresenting US. they screw up, we screw up.... BUT they can't screw up if we don't screw up first.

Some people do take their vote for granted, but throughout the primary election, I also saw how many are just as passionate as I am about this election. For example look at the demonstrations from Florida and Michigan when they were told their votes were not going to be counted. I think people are realizing how important it is to vote, and we will see this in the coming election results. I predict that this election will be a record breaking voter turnout.

lets say obama gets in and things get worse.. you said "lesser of two evils" but still voted for him. THEN you WON'T have the right to complain. you are better off not voting IMO. but, it is you and your conscience.

If Obama gets elected and screws up, then absolutely I have every right to complain and believe me I will. Because when I vote for him, I am expecting things to change namely about the war in Iraq, and I also think we need Universal Health Care. What I won't do is just forget about it. I will be watching.

just my two cents. if more ppl believe in US rather than THEM, things could change.

I agree and think that is worth more than two cents, but I am just being realistic in what can be done at this time. I would also like to see a third Libertarian Party become a viable choice in the future, but it is not going to happen before November.

reply to post by justamomma

I have to agree. Armed revolution is the only way we can save this country. It could begin with a military coup by patriots within the armed forces. We can't afford another minute of the bastardization of America's culture by America-hating Americans and third-world savages. Bush, McCain, Obama - It makes little difference. They all have presided over a literal giveaway of American liberty and pride. A majority of Congresspeople are guilty of treason. They have betrayed our nation in a thousand ways and told our enemies "Please don't hurt us" - a shameful departure from "Don't tread on me."
If a true patriot and warrior were to arise, he would be able to raise an army of 20 million citizens to march on Washington and all the state capitols. And spare me the knee-jerk references to fascism. Our American founders knew when it was time to declare independence from Britain. Now is the time for patriots to declare war on the traitorous overlords who have stolen our country.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
I have to agree. Armed revolution is the only way we can save this country. It could begin with a military coup by patriots within the armed forces. We can't afford another minute of the bastardization of America's culture by America-hating Americans and third-world savages.

Thanks for the input from whomever. I can understand why you would say this as an anonymous post and I don't mind shadow boxing either, but if you are under the illusion that others will be as mislead as your fantasy allows, then you will be horribly disappointed.

Bush, McCain, Obama - It makes little difference. They all have presided over a literal giveaway of American liberty and pride. A majority of Congresspeople are guilty of treason. They have betrayed our nation in a thousand ways and told our enemies "Please don't hurt us" - a shameful departure from "Don't tread on me."

I've got news for you my friend, the South lost the Civil War.

If a true patriot and warrior were to arise, he would be able to raise an army of 20 million citizens to march on Washington and all the state capitols. And spare me the knee-jerk references to fascism. Our American founders knew when it was time to declare independence from Britain. Now is the time for patriots to declare war on the traitorous overlords who have stolen our country.

Ok, I will spare you the veiled mention of fascism and explain to you that it is the worse ideology because it strips the individual of his rights and hand them over to the corporation. Our forefathers did know what they were up against, and if alive today they would curse the scourge of fascism as much as they hated monarchy and feudalism.

If this is what you believe and is your idea of patriotism, then you will find many like me that disagree and we will not allow you to hijack our beloved America.