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to be gay or not to be gay

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posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


what a load of rubbish

so what you are saying that everyone that is gay is born that way? cobblers!!

from an external source



Michael Glatze, who had become a leading activist in the homosexual community, made the shocking announcement on Tuesday in a World Net Daily column entitled "How A 'Gay Rights' Leader Became Straight."

"It became clear to me, as I really thought about it, and really prayed about it, that homosexuality prevents us from finding our true self within. We cannot see the truth when we're blinded by homosexuality," he wrote.

Glatze grew up with a Christian mom and a father who was possibly agnostic or atheist. His father died when Glatze was only 13, followed by his mother when he was 19.

The mixed religious messages already confused him of who he was.

When he entered college, Glatze described the campus environment as hostile to Christianity and more supportive of the homosexual community.

Glatze came out as gay at age 20 and when he did, "instantly you gain a sense of community," he said in an interview with Concerned Women for America.

"You gain also a sense that you're doing something important, that you're fighting prejudice and you're raising awareness, and I felt invigorated by that and I felt emboldened to want to fight for that," he said.

For Glatze, coming out was about "opening the doors" and "breaking down barriers" as is the standard gay activist mantra, he noted.

After starting Young Gay America, Glatze gained popularity and prominence and was a frequent media go-to person on homosexuality issues.

At the same time, however, he started feeling "strange" about something.

"I felt maybe that I hadn't thought about everything 100 percent," he said in the interview.

When he came out of what he called a near-death experience with intestinal cramps and stomach pains, he found himself turning to and thanking God.

"I realized at that point in time that it was actually God that was the actual thing that I had always been relying on, the core, the center of truth that I had always been turning to, writing on and living my entire life for," Glatze said.

He opened up the Bible and realized the Word of God was not only "good," but also "intelligent, earth-shattering, topical" and "so true."

Today, he wants to share his story and says it's his duty to tell people the truth. He equates homosexuality with death - death to one's soul; that those struggling with same-sex desires are wanting a part of them that they do not have; and that basically, they are not completely whole.

In a society where gay tolerance is increasing and more than half of Americans say they do not believe homosexuality is changeable, according to a recent CNN poll, Glatze posed, "If there had not been homosexuality condoned in the culture, would I have developed the notion that I had such an identity because we know the nature of that identity is suspect?"

The culture tells him he should be proud of his gay identity, he said, but such a culture prevents him from "fully growing."

"In my experience, 'coming out' from under the influence of the homosexual mindset was the most liberating, beautiful and astonishing thing I've ever experienced in my entire life," Glatze wrote in his column.

Glatze has always believed in trying to fight for the truth. As he read the Bible more, he said he tried to "actually open my mind."

"People often call themselves open-minded when they would absolutely never listen to certain aspects of the literature that's out there," he noted.

"I believe that all people, intrinsically, know the truth. I believe that is why Christianity scares people so much. It reminds them of their conscience, which we all possess."

In an earlier interview with Time magazine in 2005, when he was still a rising gay activist, he had stated, "I don't think the gay movement understands the extent to which the next generation just wants to be normal kids. The people who are getting that are the Christian right."

He now calls the Bible the "number one self-help book" that teaches you how to be yourself - genuine and true."

Glatze's testimony comes months after a prominent black lesbian activist also came out of the closet as an ex-homosexual. Charlene E. Cothran, 48, also ran a pro-homosexual magazine (Venus) and was at the forefront in gay pride movements and lobbying efforts for homosexual persons. She too abandoned the homosexual lifestyle (and the belief that one can be a homosexual and a Christian) through the teachings of Jesus Christ.

"When you know the truth, you don't want to see it," she said. "I didn't go to church, I didn't read the Bible."

When Glatze pondered about remaining a homosexual and being a born-again Christian at the same time, he realized he couldn't be both.

"Truth resonated so much that ... I realized you can't actually have it both ways," he said.

Glatze left what he said some homosexuals considered an ideal gay relationship. He now realizes that "when you see another guy, you can lust. But you can also recognize that that lust is nothing more than a craving and a grasping desire that holds you in its grip."

His "coming out" testimony is not an attempt to hurt anybody, Glatze explained. But he just wants people to "think about" what he's saying and to ask themselves "what if?"


www.gaysandfascism.com...

david




posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by drevill
 


Well that article is all well and good if you wanna base your findings off of "hopes and dreams" or "sugar, spice and all that's nice" or "fairy dust" as opposed to scientific proof. Where is any scientific evidence in that article? I may have missed it but I saw not a shred. Whereas BH's article was chalk full of it. Yours seems to be mainly one religious zealot's opinion of how things should be. I don't call that proof, I call it propaganda. A gay man can say he's straight all he wants and even sleep with women in order to conform with the church. That does not make him straight, it just makes him in denial because the church says he shouldn't be that way.

And where is your proof again??? And please don't provide us with anymore opinions as proof, it's rather insulting of our intelligence.

[edit on 7/5/2008 by Mad_Hatter]



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Mad_Hatter
 



sorry proof?

you have be kidding

provide some real proof Size of hemispheres as proof?? what a load of tripe

you accept but do you know the whole story here?

the tests were done on cadavers and the research taken as proof.

however Dr Levay says HIMSELF that this is not the case and he "ASSUMED" that out of 41 dead bodies that 19 were Gay men

good science eh?

16 were heterosexual men and 6 were heterosexual women

I can see a flaw here, can you or do you want to continue believing?

in this experiment he found that SOME, not ALL of the neurons in the Hypothalmus were larger in the heterosexual men and from this he jumped on to the theory that if homosexual men had smaller neurons this MAY be the cause of homosexuality.

firstly how can you assume and expect scientific results????

secondly only if 100% of the neurons were larger in heterosexual men would you have a fact

of the Assumed" gay men 3 had larger nuclei than the heterosexual men???????

This is a theory and it is flawed.

the results and table are in the Science Magazine



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by drevill
 


Well to each his own. I am not a Christian so I guess that skews my beliefs in your eyes. One thing I have learned though, is that you can't argue with a Christian. Especially on the issues of homosexuality. It's like arguing with a brick wall.



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Mad_Hatter
 


ahhh


so you have resorted to this,

shown the evidence and this is what happens?

:bnghd:



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 01:43 PM
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I say my beliefs skew my opinion because since I am not a Christian and don't follow Christianity, homosexuality cannot be a sin in my eyes. I don't believe in "sin" as you know it. This is not to be confused with right and wrong. I believe in karmic debt and reincarnation...(something that has been removed from the Bible). However, I do not want to turn this into a religious debate thread. So I will stop there. Those are just my beliefs. They may differ from yours.

I however still do not believe that homosexuality is a choice. And so what if it is a choice? I just think it is ironic that the main ones to ridicule gay people's way of life are people that are self righteous and consider themselves religious. God gave us free will. The ability to make a choice. Therefore gays have the right to make the choice to be gay. IMO, a TRUE Christian would respect that choice and recognize their right to God given free will, and not call them "sinners" as the OP has so vehemently done. However, I don't see how someone would consciously make this choice in a society that ridicules their kind. How do you explain that one?

[edit on 7/5/2008 by Mad_Hatter]



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Mad_Hatter
 


im not ridiculing gays

i was setting my stall out against those that say its natural (as in born that way)

i appreciate you have an opinion, we all do. I myself DO NOT believe in free will.

On a side note, why do you say the reincarnation has been removed from the bible? I dont want to debate it here but do you have a link i can suss out?

many thanks

david



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 08:18 PM
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Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by Mad_Hatter
 


im not ridiculing gays

i was setting my stall out against those that say its natural (as in born that way)

The only way you could be certain it's a choice and not natural is if you made it. So how difficult was it for you to choose not to be gay? Gay people have already said it's not a choice. Why can't you respect their opinions as being honest? The fact that you are discounting their opinions because they are gay is ridiculing them.

[edit on 5-7-2008 by riley]



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 09:30 PM
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mr a hornsby, no they are not according to the bible. God says that people build up sins so much that their souls are hardened in it and God gives their minds up to shameful affections and lust.

and it gets so bad that it produces the nastiest desires possible. It's a possesion of lust.

I remember when I was younger how much lust I had and the weird thoughts that ran through my brain, I aint lying, I know what mindsets ive had at different stages of my life/

It can be changed through prayer.



posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 11:43 PM
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Originally posted by JesusisTruth
I remember when I was younger how much lust I had and the weird thoughts that ran through my brain...


If you don't mind sharing, what were these weird thoughts?



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:46 AM
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reply to post by riley
 


ahh but you are wrong

Gay people HAVE said it was a choice.



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by Mad_Hatter
 

if the gay lifestyle is so great why is it that the gay persons life span is 25 years shorter than a hetrosexual persons, why is the alcoholism rates higher and suicide rates higher.



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 07:55 PM
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if the homesexual lifestyle is so great why is the lifespine of a homosexual 25 years shorter than a hetrosexual and why is their a higher rate of alcoholism,sucide and depresiom



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 08:08 PM
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"Choosing" orientation would make them bisexual.. not homosexual. They either weren't gay in the first place or have chosen to try repress it.

Homosexual means they are only sexually attracted to their own sex. Who are you to tell them this is not the case? Have you got any idea what kids go through coming out of the closet? The suicide rate thats due to homophobia and expecting them to repress and be ashamed of who they truly are? You are just perpetuating falsehoods and old biggotries that have no place in an evolved society.. I mean you couldn't even come up with a decent argument'.. only "you are wrong". Just because some radical christian site has 'gay people' who are desperately trying to deny who they are.. doesn't mean they are cured or that other gay people should follow suit.



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 08:45 PM
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you all asked for scientific data and i provided it. its not my fault you cant accept it look at the evidence your self. for the record i am not homophobic. like i stated earlier i have 3 homosexuals in my family and i at one time i thought i was homosexual tool. even living the lifestyle for several months. i am a christian now and see the error of my ways. every gay person has a choice to live the lifestyle your not unconcious when you say self im gonna suck a ***** no you lust after it, plan it and look for ways to be intimate. it is a concious act. you dont go blindly into homosexuality. it is a dynamic decision. even if you think your born that way, you still have to make the choice to come out and live the lifestyle. i know plenty of self proffessed homosexuls. who say they dont like being gay. well if you dont like it stop. if the lifestyle was so right then we would not be having this conversation here is my proof. forums.hannity.com...



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by ahornsby
you all asked for scientific data and i provided it. its not my fault you cant accept it look at the evidence your self.


snip


if the lifestyle was so right then we would not be having this conversation here is my proof. forums.hannity.com...


Posting from another forum is ill advised.. that and posting "science" with lots of smilie faces like this

:bnghd:

puts a large question mark over it's credibility to say the least.

This is the source that message board gave.. a "scientific study" that just so happens to mention god and morality alot. No.. thats not biased at all.



www.seafox.com...

This recent study confirms evidence published by FRI in 1993. There, 6,714 obituaries from 16 U. S. homosexual journals over a 12 year span were compared to a large sampling of regular newspaper obituaries.


Compared to "regular" newspapers?


So gay people don't have obituaries in regular newpapers then? ..they only have them in gay newspapers? ..so does this mean regular newspapers only allow obituaries for straight people?


Propoganda and proof are not the same thing.


[edit on 7-7-2008 by riley]



posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by ahornsby
if the homesexual lifestyle is so great why is the lifespine of a homosexual 25 years shorter than a hetrosexual and why is their a higher rate of alcoholism,sucide and depresiom


Because people like you create a stigma attached to homosexuality. Do you realize that 1 of 3 gay teenagers attempt suicide? If overzealous people would stop going out of their way just to harm others, then perhaps homosexuals wouldn't suffer from alcoholism, suicide, and depression. All of which are stress related conditions.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by ahornsby
like i stated earlier i have 3 homosexuals in my family and i at one time i thought i was homosexual tool. even living the lifestyle for several months.


So, you chose to renounce your natural behavior and live your life as a straight person. There's nothing wrong with that if that's what you want. But it doesn't sound like you chose to be gay in the first place. Did you? You did not choose to have the feelings that led you to "live the lifestyle for a few months". Did you? Those feelings were innate.

Believe me, not all young men are at some point attracted to other boys or men and feel they have to "choose" to be straight. Most people who have homosexual tendencies like you have can't or don't want to choose to live a life contrary to their natural feelings. And I suspect, someday, it may catch up with you. Fighting against nature usually has its consequences.

Biology May Drive Orientation



Vincent Healy, a Ballard house appraiser, is gay and has an older brother who also is gay. About 3 percent of American men and 1.5 percent of women describe themselves as gay or bisexual. Those percentages are three to five times higher among people who have a gay brother or sister.


Yes, the article is about sheep and fruit flies, but the animal world is many times where we start toward a better understanding of ourselves. I know gay twins, myself.

It's fine if you say that YOU chose NOT to live the life of a gay person, but it's not true that gay people choose to be that way in the first place. You should know that from personal experience.

You can say that other people CAN CHOOSE to be "straight" (like you did). Or to live their life as a straight person. But, unlike you, many people refuse to deny who they really are. They refuse to live a lie. They accept themselves for who they are. They love themselves instead of trying to preach to the world how "wrong" it is to accept their own orientation.

You know, make your choices and live with them, but don't put this righteous crap on other people who aren't embarrassed and ashamed and in denial of who they are.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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If you want evidence, check out the evidence here.


From what I've noticed in everyday life it's the outlandish bible thumpers that think you can't be born gay. Look around you, I bet the people in your family didn't choose to be gay. Just like everyone has said time and time again, it's not a choice. The only choice is to act on your natural instincts, or go against them.

It just seems you are trying to justify going against yours.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by secret titan
The only choice is to act on your natural instincts, or go against them.

It just seems you are trying to justify going against yours.


Exactly. And ahornsby, you don't HAVE to justify going against your natural instincts. That's certainly your choice and if that's really what you want to do, then I support you. It's your life and if you want to live like a straight person, this is America, and you get to say who you have sex with.

By the same token, people who DON'T choose to go against their natural homosexual instincts don't have to justify that, either. And they should not be berated and demoralized for being true to themselves.



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