Bulldozer rampage hits Jerusalem

Bulldozer rampage hits Jerusalem

news.bbc.co.uk

A Palestinian has driven a bulldozer into a bus and several cars in Jerusalem, killing four people before being shot dead, Israeli police say.

Dozens of people were hurt, at least seven critically, in the incident on Jaffa Road, in the city centre.

The BBC's Tim Franks, who witnessed the incident, said a police officer shot the driver dead after a struggle in the vehicle's cab.

"We can clearly say this is a terrorist incident," a police spokesman said.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Being a bull dozer and not a bomb, this one is just seems to be a new form of terror. That is why I thought it deserved posting. A similar incident happened several years ago in The U.S. From what I read this could have been much worse.

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

According to the Jerusalem Post, the driver of the front-end loader (why is everyone calling it a bulldozer?) was an Israeli Arab. If you check the comments on that site, there's a lot of "expel them all" kind of talk.

Also worth noting is that he's from Jebl Mukaber - which has been a bit of a hot spot over the last year or so for orthodox vs. arab violence.

The police seem to be indicating that this was not an organized attack, for what that's worth. I'll wait for the fox news spin when things get going.

Originally posted by vox2442

I'll wait for the fox news spin when things get going.

Good idea - since we already have your (somewhat predictable) spin.

IMO it won't take long at all before we have a bunch of posts trying to make this terrorist act by a so-called palestinian somehow the fault of the Israelis.

[edit on 7/2/2008 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by vox2442

I'll wait for the fox news spin when things get going.

Good idea - since we already have your (somewhat predictable) spin.

[edit on 7/2/2008 by centurion1211]

Hang on- that's uncalled for.

I've rarely posted on this issue here, for one. And second, I made a conscious effort to point out the facts of what is a developing angle to the story, as they are being reported in the Israeli media.

reply to post by centurion1211

somehow the fault of the Israelis.

specifically religious israelis. there's a big war of ideaologies going on there, since many of the returning jews weren't orthodox, they were atheists and communists from russia. the ones that are practicing jews are further divided between sephardic and ashkenazi, and the whole are ruled by the atheists. that place is the biggest time bomb on the planet.

i read a journal written by an american ashkenazi jew that returned to israel. he said it's absolutely insane there now. the sephardic jews, christians and muslims are treated like criminals (he knows he says because he fell in love with a sephardic jew and that caused all sorts of problems). the ashkenazis have it a bit better (pecking order, social status, that kinda thing) but the folks with the best of everything are the atheists, who control the country and blame the orthies (religious) for anything that goes wrong. This is gonna come to a head eventually.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by undo]

Maybe it's not a "terrorist" act, maybe just some really pissed off guy...you know like the guy last week in the US that walked into the factory where he worked and shot 5 people. This happens all the time, all over the world. I think that just because it happened in Israel he is automatically labeled a terrorist but maybe he's not. How do we define a "terrorst" is it just any person who commits a violent act or is it a person who commits a violent act for political purposes or is it just when someone from the middle east commits a violent act?

The guy was known to Israel and he was criminal, no links to Hamas or any terrorist group though. Israeli government have not issued a statement (well, have not heard one) but it is being called a terrorist attack.

People people, PAY ATTENTION TO DETAIL. Heres the headline i would have used, Bulldozer driver Hossam Dwayyat shot at wheel after deadly rampage through Jerusalem

"“He yelled ‘Allahu akhbar!’ and hit the gas,” Mr Plesser said. “I did what is expected of any soldier or civilian.”"

Allahu Akhbar? Im sure everyone yells that. No. This WAS a 'terrorist' act, comminted by an apperent 'Islamic Radical'.

Thats it.

But theres some other things to look at here

“I saw him coming towards me and I froze,” said Chava Shimoni, a 24-year-old student who was making her way to lunch. “I could see his eyes and he looked so focused. A man shoved me out of the way — it was a miracle that I survived.”

Whow! Talk about the sheep waiting for the slaughter... so conditioned to have others take care of them, WHEN DEATH ITSELF stares them in the face, they don't have the will to move.

Insane.

What a quote that is, is a parrel of all of the west.

That, even when the enemy is stareing you RIGHT in the Face, you are too terrorfiied to move, to conditioned to even care for your own good on a survial level, stuck in disbelif...

I pray that everyone will keep thier minds active when something like this happens, and not be like this girl, or the other women who died, because they didn't have the common sense to protect themselfs...

[edit on 7/3/2008 by TKainZero]

Bulldozing Peace


Actually, bulldozers have been involved in several acts of terrorism on Palestinian land too. Yet apparently, these kind of shocking news is not really news, if there are no dead Israelis involved - or shall I say Jews. But when a Palestinian - or shall I say Muslim Terrorist - looses it and uses bulldozer to tell something to the world, then of course, everybody is outraged. But where is your outrage, when you read this?

Bulldozing Palestine

The continuous bulldozing of Palestinian homes has flattened 2,243 houses across both Gaza and the West Bank in 2004 alone, leaving some 14,000 Palestinians homeles s. According to the UN, your client's army has destroyed or irreparably damaged over 12,000 homes since 2001 in the Gaza Strip, including some 2,990 shelters, home to 28,500 refugees. In 2005, Israel used bulldozers to destroy at least 114 Palestinian homes in Jerusalem, and 50 in Gaza. Since 25 January 2006, Israel has likewise destroyed at least 48 Palestinian homes on the pretext that they lacked Israeli permits.

And I think that is not the entire truth there. Perhaps this guy also had his home bulldozed, and with nothing left to loose, he went on his last rampage. Or do you people really think, these Palestinians - or shall I call them Muslim Terrorists so that all of you shall understand - have nothing better to do in their day and when they become bored, they start killing the nearest Jews? If I do recall correctly, a certain guy who lost in stole a tank in America and started his deadly rampage on the highway, before he was stopped by police and shot on spot. Was he also a terrorist?

reply to post by Souljah


"Bulldozing peace", you say.

Big questions for you.

As long as you and all the other appeasers/supporters of the so-called palestinians keep excusing their actions by blaming the other side for them, exactly how is this ever going to stop? Same goes for Israel supporters. When do any of these people get held responsible for their own actions?

Do you really want this to continue on and on? Sure seems like you do.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Maybe it's not a "terrorist" act, maybe just some really pissed off guy...you know like the guy last week in the US that walked into the factory where he worked and shot 5 people. This happens all the time, all over the world. I think that just because it happened in Israel he is automatically labeled a terrorist but maybe he's not. How do we define a "terrorst" is it just any person who commits a violent act or is it a person who commits a violent act for political purposes or is it just when someone from the middle east commits a violent act?

Depends on the context, for instance, you can also get terrorist acts in the US, like the Oklahoma bombing, obviously it is more common place in the politically charged/turbulent middle east.

Seems to have some sort of religious, political whatever motive, as he was shouting allah akhbar *allegedly*

reply to post by Souljah


basicaly anytime a palestinian attacks (even its someone thats pissed off, and not part of any terrorist group) they are Terrorists and not just a criminal because they are palestinian and only palestinians are terrorists,

when an Israeli attacks and kills or beats up palestinian farmer they are nothing more then radical settlers or something more mild along those lines.

and as you can see some un-named members have already proved that

The Isreali that ran over girl was driving a dozer,this guy was driving a front end loader,2 totally different machines,seems more pity being sought for the Isreali's then an american

I guess what title a news article receives depends upon who is doing the reporting. I remember five years ago when an Israeli IDF bulldozer operator ran over American activist Rachel Corrie. It was called an accident rather than murder despite numerous eyewitness accounts to the contrary.

"This morning, when she was killed, she was attempting to prevent the Israeli military from destroying Palestinian civilian homes," Arraf said.

"She was raising her hands and yelling at the bulldozer driver to stop," Arraf said. "The bulldozer driver paid no attention. ... He buried Rachel with dirt, which ended up, obviously, knocking her down. Then he ran over her, and then reversed and ran over her again."

Full Citation


[edit on 7/3/08 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by LLoyd45
I guess what title a new article receives depends upon who is doing the reporting. I remember five years ago when an Israeli IDF bulldozer operator ran over American activist Rachel Corrie. It was called an accident rather than murder despite numerous eyewitness accounts to the contrary.

"This morning, when she was killed, she was attempting to prevent the Israeli military from destroying Palestinian civilian homes," Arraf said.

"She was raising her hands and yelling at the bulldozer driver to stop," Arraf said. "The bulldozer driver paid no attention. ... He buried Rachel with dirt, which ended up, obviously, knocking her down. Then he ran over her, and then reversed and ran over her again."

Full Citation

Now, the circumstances surrounding that death are not clear cut, it is not "murder", based on one or two eyewitness accounts (of dubious bias)- this case is obviously murder where the guy has rampaged down a road and caught on camera ffs


[edit on 3-7-2008 by blueorder]

[edit on 3-7-2008 by blueorder]

Originally posted by blueorder
Now, the circumstances surrounding that death are not clear cut, it is not "murder", based on one or two eyewitness accounts (of dubious bias)- this case is obviously murder where the guy has rampaged down a road and caught on camera ffs

So, do you think the IDF or the bulldozer operator are any less biased?

Originally posted by centurion1211
As long as you and all the other appeasers/supporters of the so-called palestinians keep excusing their actions by blaming the other side for them, exactly how is this ever going to stop?

If you did not notice, I am only the mirror image of an averege Israeli, who always blames everything on Palestinians. And all the world's news agencies are only going to report one side of the story - therefore, I am only trying to put things in a perspective; it always takes two to tango, and there are always two sides to this story. Do we know why did this guy go on this deadly rampage? Do we know his background? His criminal record? Where his family is? Alive? Dead? Does he have a home? Does he have any children? What exactly do we know about him, apart from the most obvious label, that he is a Palestinian Terrorist?

When do any of these people get held responsible for their own actions?

Excellent question. As you noticed this guy was already held responsible for his actions by exection. So when will the Israeli government be held responsible for their actions of bulldozing 12,000 homes since 2001 in the Gaza Strip, including some 2,990 shelters, home to 28,500 refugees, for example? See? No Justice = No Peace.

Do you really want this to continue on and on? Sure seems like you do.

I most certainly do not want this to continue, but you are kind of right. I am the devils advocate for the Other Side in this story and therefore I am doing everybody a favour by keeping this in balance. Basicly I am not doing anything good for the people of Palestine nor for the people of Israel. With my so-called excuses I am only throwing more oil on the already spread out fire and you are right - how exactly is this ever going to stop, if we here, are arguing in this way? And we do not even know the whole story, yet the abyss widens already. Pointing fingers is too easy. Standing up and saying, "I FORGIVE YOU!" is the hardest. But as usualy, revenge is a dish served cold...

Originally posted by LLoyd45
So, do you think the IDF or the bulldozer operator are any less biased?

Im saying this one, caught on camera, ramming cars on a main thoroughfare is pretty much bingo bango murder, the other one, not so clear cut, as horrific as it is too