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Originally posted by Lethil
shooting someone for stealing *stuff*?....sorry please...fill me in i dont see the logic behind *stuff* is more important than a persons life...some people on here are frankly right wing nuts that would jump at the chance to shoot someone who was stealing their playstation just to get the blood going...silly,tribal and dark age thinking...come and evolve with the rest of humanity...
Originally posted by Lethil
shooting someone for stealing *stuff*?....sorry please...fill me in i dont see the logic behind *stuff* is more important than a persons life...some people on here are frankly right wing nuts that would jump at the chance to shoot someone who was stealing their playstation just to get the blood going...silly,tribal and dark age thinking...come and evolve with the rest of humanity...
Originally posted by Animal
Shameful. Killing over robbery? Shooting people in the back justified? Something about this does not seem very legitimate to me.
"Deadly force" to protect your property seems like a very slippery and dangerous slope.
Shooting someone for stealing my old broken down hibachi grill? What the hell is wrong with people today?
This to me is a perfect example of why state sovereignty should be trumped by the federal government.
Originally posted by d11_m_na_c05
If the question is . Is there a circumstance where you should be allowed to shoot a robbery suspect in the back .
I say there are a few instances .
(This is all hypothetical obviously)
Snipped remainder of post... I'm not directly speaking to this poster, just replying to make another point. I actually liked this post I'm replying to.
BUT....
Allowed to shoot in the back? ALLOWED? The LAW does not Differentiate between a Head shot or a back shot, or a foot or mouth shot.
( unless you only INJURE them, then YOU get SUED and YOU are NOW the bad guy!)
Your either legally justified in shooting or not... its not the 'shot placement' that makes the differance.
ALLOWED should not even enter the Equation. You either Protect Yourself and Your Neighbors, or you Hide Under a rock. As I See it I Dont NEED PERMISSION to defend my property or my Neighborhood. I Have a Legal RIGHT that ALLOWS me to SHOOT anywhere I dam well can hit.
The Question IS... WHEN should I put MySelf In further Danger waiting for a better shot? When should I second guess myself and Hesitate?
Answer = NOT EVER...
If I have to shoot-- I'm shooting. I'm not asking them to "turn around" for the "best angle". I'm not waiting for a better line of sight. Hell I might even shoot through the WALL for that Matter. If its a 13 year old breaking into my house, tough # for him. I'm not asking for ID first.
Do you think the Guys In Iraq wait for a Taliban or Al Quaeda to 'Turn Around' before they Pop em with a 20 MM from a C-130 at 1 mile up?
I dont think so.
Do you think KIDS carry guns in America and IRAQ? YES THEY DO.
They walk down the street with the Long Tee Shirts and their hand in their belt LIKE THEY ARE PACKING. More ARE than you would think as well.
As far as I'm concerned I'm not Hesitating or even letting that BAD IDEA begin to sink in.
If I Have to Shoot, I'm just hitting them. I dont care where. Why should I care?
Its Not Honorable? I got news for ya, this is not Feudal Japan anymore where Samurai Had 'Honor' in their PAID defense of others.
Honor Means absolutely nothing when it comes to protecting my space from unauthorized intruders. The "Honor Factor" was Breached when they crossed that line. They dont deserve any Honor or mercy when they initiate the situation. Honor is what should have kept them in line, and honest, but it didnt work now did it?
Why should I be held to a differant level of 'Honor' than the Perp causing the trouble when the rubber hits the road?
I Should Not Be , If I do devalue My Personal Honor, and act like a Perp I deserve what I get. Same for the Perp in my neighbors yard.
I think its really dangerous to start to second guess yourself, or wait for a full 'head on' shot. I'll take the 'chastizing' from Anonymous ATS Posters later on, without a hospital stay involved for me.
I really cant believe that we are even having this discussion.
As another poster pointed out, CARING for the Poor Defenseless PERP and wanting to sing Kum By Ya is just backwards.
A symptom of what this country is internally imploding from as we speak.
Laws dont Stop Criminals, people with Guns do who are not chicken shiet scared to protect their families or their neighborhood.
Criminals DONT FEAR THE LAW, they FEAR the Pissed Off Homeowner at 3:30 am who is ARMED and within his RIGHTS to defend the entire area.
I think thats called "appeasement by lack of action", which makes you just as guilty and dishonorable as the perp, if you dont stand up for your Rights and your Property. They may get the Old Lady Next door if you dont stop them now, and that will be "on you".
( Once again , not directed to this poster that I replied to, just the first few lines were )
Blitzkreigen
According to a final ruling, Ortiz died of shotgun wounds to his neck and torso, said Ellie Wallace, an investigator at the Harris County Medical Examiner's Office.
The report said that Torres died of shotgun wounds to his torso and upper left extremity.
Wallace could not confirm whether the men were shot in the back, saying the autopsy report only indicated they were shot in the torso
Originally posted by mybigunit
reply to post by Blitzkreigen
Great story to post and Im glad you posted it. It just goes to show you even more this guy was justified. In fact in my post above I said what if the guys leave get guns come back and kill that guy. He did the right thing. I want to see the Anonymous ATS guy respond to this.
Originally posted by orangetom1999
Originally posted by Lethil
shooting someone for stealing *stuff*?....sorry please...fill me in i dont see the logic behind *stuff* is more important than a persons life...some people on here are frankly right wing nuts that would jump at the chance to shoot someone who was stealing their playstation just to get the blood going...silly,tribal and dark age thinking...come and evolve with the rest of humanity...
You know what Lethil...you are exactly correct...life is more important than stuff. So why is not the life of those who earn the stuff ...very often at RISK......important?? Why would you think you have the high moral ground here when you have no idea what RISKS were taken by the owners of the "Stuff" in earning it?? What kind of skewed morality are you proposing here. Is not the lives of the people who take RISK to earn the "Stuff " valuable?? How do you justify yourself as a beacon of morality when you leave out this view of RISK??
Your logic or lack thereof makes the people who take the original RISK to earn the property/stuff...expendable and disposable..as if they dont exist at all...nor anyone in the neighborhood. Hardly a beacon of morality or the high moral ground.
I dont know if you understand this concept where you were raised...but lots of places here in America...we are not intrested in "Wildlife" passing through our neighborhoods. In particular here we are refering to "Two Legged Wildlife."
You want to pass through our neighborhoods and be decent ...respectful..neighborly..no problem. Just dont carry on like "Wildlife."
There are those of us here who understand and respect the motives of four legged wildlife...much better than the two legged variety.
Thats just the way it is. We make no apologies for this.
Nonetheless...I take the lives and RISKS seriously ..of those who earned the property..often at great RISK....not the Wildlife. Why are you not holding their lives as valuable.....those taking RISK to acquire the propertys?? Curious omission from most of these posts against what happened down in Texas.
Orangetom
Hey Blitzkreigen,
Dont know if you have seen it as of yet..but I posted a reply to your question on 12/24 volt high volume pumps on the Survival Board...here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Orangetom
[edit on 5-7-2008 by orangetom1999]
But my view remains the same...nothing is worth someones life...NOTHING! Case Closed...but key on the table for anyone that wants to reply.I dont care if its 30 billlion vs a crackhead thief who is a burglar with less than average IQ...noone has the right to take someone else life except nature..or circumstances/luck(getting knocked over) my views are a tad in the minority...but i dont think anyone should be killed...not serial killers,paedophiles,burglars,rapists etc etc unless in self defence,which this clearly wasnt...although who knows whats gpoing through someones head ina situation like this...but....this guys actions make me feel uneasy...i think it was avoidable.