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Abrams: Texas jury OKs shooting burglars in the back?

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posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by Animal
 


Well, not to step on your toes but if the criminals had'nt been killed, history in this country shows that Horn would have just gotten sued for injuring the guys so if ya ask me leave peoples $hit alone and get your own. Peoplehave it ruff all over and th last thing you want to do is rely on the feds to protect you hell look at the shape this country is in after 30 years of allowing the fed to protect us, now they wana protect the world? I dont feel sorry for the criminals one bit and you would either the first time someone broke into your home and took something that you was found of.




posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by Animal
Shameful. Killing over robbery? Shooting people in the back justified? Something about this does not seem very legitimate to me.

"Deadly force" to protect your property seems like a very slippery and dangerous slope.

Shooting someone for stealing my old broken down hibachi grill? What the hell is wrong with people today?

This to me is a perfect example of why state sovereignty should be trumped by the federal government.



We just bought our place last year and had no electricity for 3 months and my barbecue grill was my only means of cooking. So yea I'd a shot that [snip] . When people steal from your home they might be taking something vital for your survival. I know I have some things that are expensive and aren.t needed to live but I have seen many times I would have starved if I hadn't had them to pawn for food. I feel it is only self defense.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 03:49 PM
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You guys cannot talk about "If Mr. Horn would have listened to the 911 operator." Three things to consider:

1. During 9-11, the 911 operaters were telling people who wanted to leave the WTC buildings to "sit tight and wait for authorities.". Great advice they should have listened to?

2. the 911 operator is reading a script (i work in call centers as a manager). they are telling you to stay put because the scripting for your situation says that is what they have to do to avoid litigation. they ARE NOT on the scene and have no idea what danger you may or may not be in.

3. the lady who died in the ER...people were calling 911 to repot her dying, and the 911 operators told them that since she was at the hospital, she was recieving all the help she could. While she died. Combine that with all the other lame 911 stories we have heard, and they are about as valuable a source of advice as the agent with Sprint that handles my billing questions.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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I agree with the above poster about 911 operators. It will be just a matter of time before they start out sourcing 911. Youll call 911 and get someone in Bangladesh.

I agree with Mr Horns decision to shoot. He could have felt threatened and in fear of his life. It's better than in my town where a 90 year old woman suprised two burgerlars. They proceeded to tie her up and beat her to death. You take your life in your own hands when deciding to break the law and enter someones home to rob them. I wonder, had the owner been home at the time would he have survived? Home invasion happens all the time. People die when getting robbed and you hardly hear anything about it. Let two dirt bags get shot and its head line news. Sad truely sad..



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 05:04 PM
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I dont see anything wrong with this. He shot people who going/trying to break into his neighbors house. Maybe people shouldnt be breaking into other peoples houses. If they werent doing something wrong this never would have happened.

All the people who think this is wrong. Is it right that someone breaks into your house breaks an arm or leg and sues you. And you have to pay his medical because he broke into your house?

I'm glad that justice prevailed in this case. I dont think its right to just shoot people, but who knows these guys could have been on drugs and maybe he felt that it was them or me. He protected himself.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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Have any of you even read the 911 transcript? That guy is bat crap crazy, he told the operator he was going to go outside and shoot them. I'll take my chances with two unarmed house robbers than and armed lunatic any day. I can't believe there are people arguing it's okay to murder another human above stuff. And the part that gets me is they weren't even in his house, that's a different story because you don't know what they are gonna do or if they are armed.

This man made choice to kill two people, that is murder. If he had stayed in his home he would have been fine but he wanted to kill. If you ask me, Texas needs to evolve a hundred years. With the way the economy is going and gas prices you are going to see a lot more people stealing. I guess if we just start shooting each other then the NWO won't have to work so hard to thin the population.

I have never had a desire to go to Texas because it always seemed like one of the weird little towns you had to go to in school that shows you how life was in the 1800's and now I'm certain of it. Maybe they should change the state motto to "Don't mess with Texas, or we'll shoot you in the back." Real manly. YOu better hope God thinks so anyway.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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I've been broken into a couple of times and both times by the neighborhood crack head. 20 year old punk with a long criminal history. Would I shoot to kill him if he was in the yard and fleeing? No. Would I shoot to kill him if he was in the house or trying to gain entry into the house? Yes. As a woman, the Law might cut me some slack because we all know men are stronger than females and I'm no kid at 49 years old and with pretty nasty case of arthritis in my hands and wrists.

Would I shoot and kill a carjacker? Definitely yes. Have had more than a few attempts made on me through the years. From guys walking up to my car at night while waiting at intersections and attempting to open the door hard enough to damage the latch to a fool putting a huge screwdriver at my throat and demanding the keys. Ha Ha. That .22 mag don't play, does it, doofus?


[edit on 2-7-2008 by Bowcatz001]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 08:12 PM
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Society does not punish burglary and theft by imposing the death penalty, so what gives an individual the right to do so ?

This man is a double murderer, plain and simple...He should be charged and found guilty of same, and then placed on death row, like other murderers...

Texas is obviously an antiquated backwater full of neanderthals and redneck numbskulls...




posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by Rilence
Society does not punish burglary and theft by imposing the death penalty, so what gives an individual the right to do so ?

Umm.....the law gives an individual the right. Thought you would have picked up on this by now. All states have laws stating that you have the right to shoot someone if they break into your house and you feel like your life is in danger. So society and law does give an individual the right to kill someone. Simple really.


This man is a double murderer, plain and simple...He should be charged and found guilty of same, and then placed on death row, like other murderers...

You are entitled to your wrong opinion.


Texas is obviously an antiquated backwater full of neanderthals and redneck numbskulls...

Thats so funny because you have it all backwards. Any place which does NOT give you the right to defend yourself by enabling you to use a gun to protect your home is actually antiquated and full of numbskulls.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 09:09 PM
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Unfortunately, it doesn't always just stop with burglary. Rapes and murders occur after the initial robbery break-in. Because I'm not a psychic, I don't know the outlaw's intent when I see him standing in my livingroom and must assume the worse in order to prevent a serious physical attack or even homicide. As you get older, you don't heal as fast and even with the medical insurance, why should I suffer a rape or beating because some loser doesn't want to work for a living?

And some burglars are just plain sickos. The BTK killer is a good example. He broke in, murdered, raped, and stole. But how would the victims know that they were about to be murdered? Wouldn't they have fought back harder? No one knows the intent of the stranger in the house and you have to take strong precautions and sometimes someone has to die. It is not an easy choice to make either if you have even a remote hint of a conscience.

I'd be praying the whole time, too. Just like last time when I pulled the hammer back on a .44 mag Blackhawk at some loser trying to run me off a rural road in his big white Ford pickup and I'm in a little Chevy Monza. Some loser was running women off rural roads at night and beating and raping them in Warren County, Mississippi back in the mid 80s and I wasn't going to let that happen to me. Period. Sometimes, you make really hard choices to protect yourself, your family, and your property. This had been the third time this nut case had followed me from work down the Old Port Gibson Road from Port Gibson to my home at the time near Rocky Springs, but I had always managed to get ahead of him and loose him in the night and winding back roads. I called the Claiborne County Sheriff's office and was told no crime had been committed, so they could not offer any help. Well, then it comes back to me, don't it? What am I going to do about it? Crime is much worse now than it was back then, too. The criminals are much more mentally ill and violent, too.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 09:24 PM
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ya know i'm very split on this if the robbers were in the nextdoors lawn he should have waited for police!!!!I THINK!!!!
but now they say they moved to his lawn ( SHOOTEM)!!!



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 10:24 PM
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(For the record, I have many leftist opinions, this is not one of them.)

If someone breaks onto your house, how do you know their intention? They could be a murder, a rapist, or just a burglar. Now, I normally try to use diplomacy, and I myself would try to apprehend the suspect by threat of force is possible. If they don't comply, their life ends. (I wouldn't just "shoot them in the leg", that will get you sued quiet quickly. Judging by all the "you can't shoot the burglar in your house" people in this thread, he would probably win the case.) I can perfectly understand someone else not doing the same however. The burglar/rapist/murder/stalker knew the risk and paid the price. If given the choice between my family and valuables or the life of a burglar, my interests will win every time.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 12:12 AM
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When this happen, there was only a small faction of us ATS members that defended this man.

He shot dead 2 illigal alliens who were stealing...

God bless him... now if we can only get everyone to act the same way...



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Rilence
Society does not punish burglary and theft by imposing the death penalty, so what gives an individual the right to do so ?

This man is a double murderer, plain and simple...He should be charged and found guilty of same, and then placed on death row, like other murderers...

Texas is obviously an antiquated backwater full of neanderthals and redneck numbskulls...



Numerous states don't impose the death penalty for murder either. Should someone stand by and let someone be murdered because you think they don't have the "right" to use lethal force to stop a crime?



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 03:11 AM
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its mind boggling there is such a debate over this man's actions

he is a hero

2 humans (illegal aliens at that, dont have a problem with immigrants but come on over legally) were on property not belonging to them, they were criminals at the point the man in question encounters them

illegal criminals by police are often considered a threat

why shouldnt this man consider them a threat, he doesnt fully know the situation for all he knows they could involved in a worse crime then just robbery.

what we have here is a citizen with morals, with values, with love for his neighbor and a sense of duty to do whats right and protect ones brother. we should commend him for his actions not ridicule and prosecute them, those men bought there actions upon themselves

so many threads on here ive seen police officer actions that are exactly the same if not worse defended to the death, the only reason this man is questioned is because he didnt have a badge

thats the sad thing maybe this world would be a better place if more people like him were around all of our neighborhoods, maybe then we wouldnt need police and there wouldnt even be the possibility of a police state



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 04:21 AM
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i believe here in georgia we have a law on the books stating if someone crosses the threshold of your home without your consent and pose a threat to you you can legally use deadly force to protect yourself and your home... i know if someone was to try to break into my home when im there their getting 2 slugs in their chest


oh and god bless texas



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 04:24 AM
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I have read every post in this thread for the past 2 hours.

I've given out Stars like they are Candy on Halloween Night....



What we have 'here' is a FAILURE to COMMUNICATE..... "RESPECT".



The ILLEGAL IMIGRANTS failed to respect the UNITED STATES BORDERS.

They FAILED to RESPECT the HISTORIC COUNTY in which they fed and drank, and probably WORKED and got AMERICAN JOB MONEY, While LOWERING the PAYSCALE for AMERICANS who have been here for 5 or 6 GENERATIONS.

They FAILED to RESPECT the ENGLISH LANGUAGE and learn simple terms like FREEZE and DEAD! Thay can damn sure say DOLLAR, or talk trash to a Woman.

They FAILED to RESPECT anothers PROPERTY, WORK, LIFE , SECURITY, FAMILY and HOME.

They FAILED to RESPECT the LAW of the LAND.

They were FAILURES to ADD anything POSITIVE to SOCIETY.

They Failed the CHURCH.

They FAILED ALL GODS and ALL RELIGIONS.

They FAILED to CARE.

They FAILED in LIFE.

They FAILED in SPIRIT.

They are SIMPLY FAILURES.

A CANCER should be Destroyed, or it will TAKE OVER the Whole Body.

A CANCER will MULTIPLY when ALLOWED free REIGN.

Mr. Horn is simply a Surgeon removing a CANCER that could have affected ME or MY FAMILY NEXT. Sign me up for the next Med School.

I Thank Him from the Bottom of my Heart.

I dont give a RATS A*% if he shot them in the MOUTH, BACK, OR BALLS. SHOT is SHOT and they GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED. ( With ALL DUE RESPECT )

When someone does not RESPECT my COUNTRY, COUNTY, HOME, LANGUAGE, LAW, RELIGION, FREEDOM, SECURITY, WORK, FAMILY, PRIVACY, or anything else that you can think of, I OWE THEM NOTHING !!! Not even a well placed SHOT.

They are Nothing but SCUM, Virus and Bacteria and should be treated as such. Break out the Chemo, the Poison Needles and the Radiation. Stick em in the eye and let their friends see you do it.

DAMN THIER SOULS, and ALL who want to follow their path.

Its People like Mr. Horn, Me, BigFat Furry Texan, and several others HERE who FIGHT and BATTLE to keep you PANZI A%#ES SAFE, and Frankly we are getting TIRED of it.

You deserve what you get Friend-O, and I'm not going to even inhale over your future losses.

Your Damn Lucky you even live in AMERICA, because you sure dont want to fight for whats been handed to you all your life.

Maybe thats the Problem... someone else HANDED it all to you.

I have NO RESPECT FOR YOU and you know who are. You represent what screwed up here in AMERICA, and your type is the MAIN ENEMY that our COUNTRY FACES. A slow death from a Cancer from within that we refuse to treat.

I Slap You.

Blitzkreigen



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 06:04 AM
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Personally I'd never shoot someone in the back to protect some stuff. But I can see why someone would. I would have no problem with a sort of hunting season on taggers gang bangers and home invaders.



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Zealott
Personally I'd never shoot someone in the back to protect some stuff. But I can see why someone would. I would have no problem with a sort of hunting season on taggers gang bangers and home invaders.


And here lies the problem.....

Do you not realize that Hunting "Season" is already here, 365 days a year BUT that YOU are the one being HUNTED by THEM !! ?

Really.... YOU ARE THE PREY... not the other way around.

Get it?

THEY are Looking for YOUR stuff, and your Woman and Daughter as well.

Back, front, side I dont care. If I have to shoot someone, I dont care how they get hit. Just get hit and die already. A gunshot to the back is a Hell of a Lot better than other things I can think of that they DESERVE for lack of RESPECT.

I'll kick em in the balls too in a street fight, and I might just rip out eyes as well. Hell we burned people alive in WWII, and I'm Friggin Glad we did too.

Is that a BAD thing?

Really is it? Sorry if anyone thinks that way, but when its time to act, all bets are OFF. A gunshot is pretty durn merciful when you really think about it.

I'm not hanging them up in my basement for weeks with a blowtorch and a pair of pliers, but thats what they deserve. Then hang em from the fence like an old Coyote for all to see and to be warned.

I hope it hurt like hell. I hope their Moma's dissapointed look was the last thing they saw here on Earth as they were choking out.

In response to another posters comment.....( general community view on the subject ) I think this is what a LOT of us are feeling.... we have had ENOUGH of this Bull shiete < dont edit my word ATS >and its time to put the Fear of GOD into the next son of a biotch that thinks he can get away with breaking the law.

I'm personally TIRED of being HUNTED, and tired of LAWS not APPLYING to others, and having to do it all pretty much on my own in FEAR of retribution for defending myself or my neighborhood.

They do not RESPECT anything and must be TAUGHT RESPECT.

Otherwise all LAWS , Morals, Values and Community rules DO NOT APPLY to ANYONE.


Just like in Baseball... Your Outa Here.....


Blitzkreigen



[edit on 3-7-2008 by Blitzkreigen]




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