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Lucifer: An Experiment in Duality and Free Will

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posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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This post presents my personal views of what we refer to as "evil" on this plane of existence. The purpose is to step outside of your preconceived notions and transcend duality.
In order to do this, one must abandon the concepts of good and evil. To present this, we will look at how Lucifer was created.

The Bible speaks of not passing judgment on others, and this is for good reason. When you judge concepts as either good or bad, you are contributing to the polarity of duality and it is a self defeating act. Everything flows exactly as directed by the Cosmic Consciousness otherwise known as God. One must learn to transcend this duality consciousness in order to spiritually evolve.

Lucifer: "The Light Bringer"

Since everything happens for a reason at the will of God, one can ascertain that Lucifer was indeed created for a reason.

God wanted humans to thrive in an environment of free will. With the choice to explore all possibilities, both good and evil. This is necessary to learn discrimination for the good. You cannot have good without evil. Thus free will was Gods creation and he willed it to be.

God created Lucifer so that free will could exist.

Since free will did not exist before Lucifer's creation, the first ones to experience it were the Angels.

According to the Bible, God created Lucifer. The most beautiful and stunning angel of all. An angel that had no superior. The Light Bringer.

As humans, it is in our nature to look up to our heroes. People we admire with greatness. People we destine to be like. A role model. Everyone has them, try to think of yours. Fact is, we tend to model our actions and behavior after those that we admire the most. Since Lucifer had no angel greater than himself, his only choice was to look up to God. Therefore, Lucifer did something very natural. He wanted to be just like God. How could God not have known this in making him the greatest archangel in creation? In fact, Lucifer's ambition was so great, he wanted to surpass his role model.

In order to surpass God, Lucifer realized he must first separate himself from God. So evidently, with God's blessing, Lucifer decided to create his own reality and separate himself. In order to separate oneself from God, you must have the absence of Love. Therefore, he severed his connection of Pure Love with the Creator and proceeded to create his reality, a virtual reality in essence. If he couldn't be God, then he would be like God.

Lucifer intended to create a reality that he could control, while Michael's intentions were simply free will. Lucifer convinced 1/3 of the angels to follow him, promising them the experience of a new reality that had never been tried before. A reality where spirit can exist in more than one place at a time, thus creating duality.


The genesis pattern or "Flower of Life" in Sacred Geometry. The blueprint for God's original reality. It has one singularity at the center.


Lucifer's blueprint for his own reality based on duality. It has two centers.


Transcendence

Like I said before, God has a plan and everything has a purpose and happens for a reason. Earth is the chosen spot for Lucifer's reality and everyone's spirit that his here has chosen to be here as a part of it. This would in fact make Earth Lucifer's domain and parallel the fact that an eternity in hell is indeed reincarnation to Earth until you get your karma cleared to progress to the higher dimensions on your path closer to Unity..or God. This is in essence learning to step outside of the polarity of good and evil and transcend duality.

The important thing is that, Lucifer's reality is still a part of God's original reality as it would not be possible without God. We have one foot in the door of his reality simply need to realize our inner potential.

Buddah, Lao-tsu, Mohammad, Jesus, Krishna, Abraham, Babaji, Thoth, and many more ascended masters of eternal light are the great teachers that show how to build your character. All show that Love for one another is the primary key to enlightenment and transcendence. Love brings order and creates eternal life.

Love is the key to stepping out of Lucifer's reality and finding your way back to God.

[edit on 7/1/2008 by Mad_Hatter]




posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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If you believe that God is all-controlling, then there's no such thing as "free will." If God holds out a deck of cards to you and asks you to pick one, then your choices are going to be limited to what he offers. That's not free will. Free will would be if you could pick a card out of a deck of your own choosing. Or decide not to select a card at all. But as long as the initial range of selection is limited, your choice will always be limited, not free.

Which is just another example of why talking about "God" is pointless, since there is no good definition of God that doesn't contain inherent illogical and nonsensical paradoxes. We don't even know what we're talking about.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by Nohup
 


You do have the choice of not accepting "God." You also have the choice to accept him. Our reality is one of free will. I merely put the idea out there, take it for what you will.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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Someone once told me "If it weren't for evil we would all be living in grass huts". In my view evil does not exist to make good "look good", it exists because it is in fact half of the creative force.

Think about it MadHatter, virtually every form of technology was created to overcome some form of evil (war, hunger, disease, natural elements, etc...). Evil is probably the single greatest motivator for improving technology.

This was addressed to MadHatter, I don't want to argue the point with those that can't understand the premise.

Edit...sorry...i misquoted...if it were not for MEN we would all be living in grass huts...if it weren't for evil we would all be standing around like cows chewing their cud in the pasture...or something like that. Anyway the point is clear.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by Sonya610
Someone once told me "If it weren't for evil we would all be living in grass huts". In my view evil does not exist to make good "look good", it exists because it is in fact half of the creative force.

Think about it MadHatter, virtually every form of technology was created to overcome some form of evil (war, hunger, disease, natural elements, etc...). Evil is probably the single greatest motivator for improving technology.

This was addressed to MadHatter, I don't want to argue the point with those that can't understand the premise.


I understand what you're saying. You are right. I don't necessarily mean that evil exists to make good look good, I mean it is necessary in order for there to be good. How can you have good or evil if there is not one or the other to compare it to. If there was no evil in the world, how would you know what good was? You cannot have free will without the choice between the two. Hence duality. Is this what you mean when you say it is have the creative force?

And I have to disagree on the fact that every form of technology was created to overcome evil. What about guns....bombs....etc?

All points of view are welcome here. I want to see what people have to say about this. I also want to open up new views that I haven't thought of yet and see it from the perspectives of others.


[edit on 7/1/2008 by Mad_Hatter]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by Mad_HatterAnd I have to disagree on the fact that every form of technology was created to overcome evil. What about guns....bombs....etc?


You are right, I should have said "in response to evil" not overcome evil. Though I am sure the people using the guns believe they are "overcoming evil" when they use them on enemy forces or criminals or whatever.

And when I said "creative force" i meant indirectly it truly IS half the creative energy in our world. Sheesh even evolution can be seen as a response to evil, animals must change and evolve to survive disease, changing climate, predators, etc... If there was no struggle to survive there would be no need to change.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Sonya610]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by Mad_Hatter
reply to post by Nohup
 


You do have the choice of not accepting "God." You also have the choice to accept him. Our reality is one of free will. I merely put the idea out there, take it for what you will.


I have free will
I make my choices
I define and redefine myself by the choices I make
I choose
my actions affect others
I am inherently responsible for my actions towards others
Others define and redefine me based on how I effect them



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 06:19 PM
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reply to post by Mad_Hatter
 


Great post. Very intresting premise. I am anxious to hear more. So are we all aspects of the angels that followed Lucifer? How did we end up in this reality?



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by Mad_Hatter
 



An interesting concept. I think I agree with your effort, but I should point out two things:

One: Biblically there isn't any duality. Isaiah 45:7

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the Lord, that doeth all these things.


Two: Lucifer, better translated as Helel, refers to a mortal King of Babylon in a Prophecy. This quote at the beginning of the parable will put it in plain context: Isaiah 14:3-4

And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy travail, and from thy trouble, and from the hard service wherein thou wast made to serve, that thou shalt take up this parable against the king of Babylon, and say:
and so forth with the tale.

I think I agree with your point though, return or unite with the Divine. I would look at Humanity, especially the Human ego/self, though as the problem.

Thats clearly the point of the parable about the King of Babylon who dreamed in his heart of being beyond the Infinite. Its also the goal of almost every Left hand esoteric path on the planet, to fragment or breakway from the Divine.

I think your point though is the same as almost every Right hand path though, which would be Henosis or union with the Divine. So I agree with that. I would of just named the thread a little differently like: Humanity: An Experiment in Duality, Paradox, and Free Will



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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It's my understanding that Lucifer is Humanity. We are the fallen angel.

And in my own minuscule way I'm trying to bring back our formal title of "Light Bringer". Thankfully, I'm not the only one on that mission.

As for free will, the universe appears to be set up in such a way that the more knowledge you have the more free will you have. Our perceived limit of knowledge at this point gives us a perceived limit to our free will. It's my free will to go to Saturn but I don't have the knowledge that will allow that.

This premise also explains why the true knowledge is being kept secret. If we get the knowledge then we can no longer be controlled.

Humanity itself is the prize. Not the physical bodies of course. These are simply tools. But our immortal being commonly called the spirit.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by Mad_Hatter
The Bible speaks of not passing judgment on others, and this is for good reason. When you judge concepts as either good or bad, you are contributing to the polarity of duality and it is a self defeating act.


There's an ambiguity there. You first mention passing judgment on others. How is that done? Subjectively, I believe it is by interpretation and categorization of impressions received through the physical world. That is to say, when we judge others, we judge their acts, and what we ourselves imagine their motives or character to be. In some ways, the results is as much a reflection upon ourselves as it is on those we judge.

Our chain of perception of others, from action through observation to thought, passes through the mechanisms of the physical world. And, in so doing, would perhaps be influenced by and subject to the rules of a 'dual-nature' world such as you describe. Possible evidence thereof: as they say, there's always two sides to every story.

But then, you talk about judging concepts as either good or bad, and contend that so doing contributes to and reinforces the 'polarity of duality' you posit. Does that necessarily follow? Is the judgment of abstract concepts necessarily 'self-defeating'? Does it matter how abstract, how divorced from the worldly, the concept is? Are 'transcendent thoughts' judgment-proof?



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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I use my free will to NOT believe in angels, gods, devils and the like...

They are nothing but excuses for things we don't understand, a whipping post as it were for the crimes and passions of our race, that has all been blown out of proportion.


The religious claim to have free will in believing what they believe but in actual fact all they are choosing to believe in something that another human has told them / written in a book.

A good instance of this is a chap who now works as a priest or vicar in my home town, a representative of god on this planet, as a result of a holy experience that happened to him when he was 17 years old.

This experience was so powerful, so out of the ordinary that it changed his life forever.

BUT, what most people (including him) don't know, is that his experience was a result of him being spiked with a mind altering drug by one of his so called 'friends' at a party.... very cruel and naughty behaviour, but nobody had the heart to tell him...

Now he is doing god's work... faithful and thankful for his 'spiritual' experience, but oblivious to the human hand that led him there (for better or for worse)...

Basically what i'm saying is... the mind has many ways of deceiving a person, mankind has many ways of deceiving people and I do believe that a lot of this duality business is nothing to do with so called god and lucifer, but the individual person being influenced by symbology on a massive scale.

I am not going to follow any faith blindly, as that is my choice, but I will try and live a relatively decent life that is not governed by any old stories and myths and fables... I'd rather walk in the real world with my eyes open than take up a blind faith that is full of hypocrisy, fear and applies to an age long past.

Surely it's better to love the world through my own choices and opinions and experiences than to be told to love the world because I will go to heaven if i don't?



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 10:04 PM
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Great thread topic, it's something that's been on my mind recently. Not so much the duality of good and evil but more the idea of a "Satanic" philosophy.

I believe that the dark side of creation is needed to balance the light side. Everything in creation is perfectly balanced, dark and light, big and small, emptiness and existence. Satan, meaning "adversary", is simply the choice of the darker left hand path to spiritual enlightenment and understanding. Why can't Satan also be a path to God?

However, I differ from your beliefs in that I don't believe in good and evil as they are typically defined. I only believe in Light and Dark, right and wrong, balanced and unbalanced. They are opposites that can not exist without eachother. I don't believe that Satan represents evil in the sense of raping and pillaging so much as it represents vital existence and reality.

To follow the philosophy of Satan is to accept life as it is, equally good and bad, light and dark. It is to understand our true physical existence as a means to understanding our spiritual existence. Whereas Christianity teaches abstinence and prayer, Satanism teaches indulgence and action. They are opposite but neither is more evil or good than the other.

Lucifer is not the great deceiver as we were taught. Lucifer is the bringer of the light of knowledge and wisdom. He brought light to the world, casting away the darkness of the night. Whereas God would seem to be the doting parent who tells us how to live our life, Satan is the brother who allows us to learn for ourselves and decide for ourselves based on the knowledge we have.

God may rule over the spiritual realm but Satan clearly rules over the physical.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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Here is my take:

If we get out of the religious box (that includes those who reference God with religion, yet aren't religious) then it can open up vast new opportunities of learning.

As long as we attempt to use our limited thinking and then express it as fact we close doors. I like this thread because it allows for expression and out of the box thinking. Thank you Mad_Hatter!

I believe that it is entirely possible to get to know who God is - it certainly is my experience. Satan has been trying to be known for a long time now. He literally has come out of the figurative closet. Getting to know Satan opens the door to understand God better. Are they working together? Possibly.

Has Satan (I prefer that name) been used or volunteered to be mans adversary? I think so. And the purpose IMO is to define us! He was a huge part of my spiritual growth. I have had to come to some reconciliation as to their relationship and to see that in many ways they work together.

Of course we were given free will. But it is in degrees! We have only a limited frame of reference and limited reasoning abilities as compared to the Gods. I have found as I have gotten older that many things are not quite as black and white as I believed formerly.

Are all the Gods (with the exception of the demons) working together to give the impression of duality? I firmly believe so. But is it a permanent state? I do not think so. As we evolve in the future (in Gods reality) as humans, the duality feature may no longer be needed.



[edit on 1-7-2008 by MatrixProphet]

[edit on 1-7-2008 by MatrixProphet]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


I love your idea of Satan being the adversary to man so we can define ourselves. I love it because that is EXACTLY what happens in the Gospels.

Jesus is fasting in the desert and Satan comes to him, he offers Jesus power over men. He offers Jesus the exact opposite of what Jesus was here for. Jesus' denial of Satan's offers is what solidified his purpose and showed him the right path. Jesus needed Satan to help him be sure of what he was meant to do.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by Shadowflux
 


I thought Jesus was tempted by the Serpent
The Serpent offered the physical world as the kingdom
A kingdom of the flesh
A kingdom that would be egocentric and SELF serving
Jesus declined for a kingdom of spirit.altruist ism,and humility
I don't believe that Satan,Lucifer and the Serpent are the same entity.
The Serpent tempted Eve and Eve forfeited her innocence.perfection and freedom
God is imperfect because of one premise
God cannot say WE exist in perfection

Adam and Eve may have created to live the lives of a perfect couple
we exist in perfection we are innocent
perfect trust perfect honesty perfect commitment the perfect couple

Eve tossed it for a piece of fruit(Temptation) -self awareness and knowledge of right and wrong

WE cannot reach perfection on our own
That may be the reason for our existence

Punch line = WE are the perfect couple Ding we have the winners

God reply.... So thats what it feels like.....













[edit on 2-7-2008 by The Utopian Penguin]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 02:27 AM
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reply to post by The Utopian Penguin
 


I don't really disagree with you except in the sense that the word Satan means Adversary and in this instance the Serpent was being Jesus' adversary, he was advocating the opposite of what Jesus was apparently here for. It was this temptation, this offer of an earthly world, that cemented Jesus's belief in the world of "His Father". Or so I believe



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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reply to post by mr-lizard
 



they are choosing to believe in something that another human has told them / written in a book.


You know that would apply to everything on earth that has ever been written.


I'd rather walk in the real world with my eyes open than take up a blind faith that is full of hypocrisy, fear and applies to an age long past.


What is the real world? The one we have a consensus on? The one we are told about in books written by humans? Are we not already accepting reality on blind faith and the hypocrisy of human nature?



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by Nohup
 
you could choose not to pick a card at all or do something totally opposite of what he tells you to do

he gives you all the good choices to choose from you can pick from another deck of cards

that is freewill



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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Good post. I agree that all things have a purpose and that good/evil are just two sides of the same coin. The conscious universe (or God) created and contains both good and evil. All paths lead to the source.

I made a post a while back where I talk about basically the same thing: The middle road




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