Goodbye, XP. Hello, Midori

One thing i have discovered in vista is that windows vista 64 seems to find all my drivers than the 32bit version. Couple of reasons why i opted for 64 bit. One i have 8gb of ram but xp32 bit can only see 2gb. (wasted memory unused) Xp64 is a nightmare total disaster. It would not even boot the os properly and the desktop is so weird too nothing like xp32 nope. Its a utterly messed up os. Vista 64 is the way to go avoid 32 bit if you can its not even worth it. I do a lot of virtualization and 32bit just doesn't cut it for me.

XP did served me well as one of the best oses ever. But now that sp1 for vista 64 i have yet to run into any compatibility issues nor have i seen a bsod. One thing for sure avoid retail pc's they are crap and full of bloatware and some even go deep of actually modifying the vista code and put their "Sony logo" on the installation. Thats crazy lol.

With that said I think retail needs to change and really opt for more options and for once don't bother installing unwanted broken proprietary software. if it at least going to work thats fine but if its going to cause frustration then why bother. I haven't touched a retail pc in years i only work with customers with them which is probably why i am not having issues in the first place

[edit on 4-7-2008 by MarioJP]

One thing that hasn't been pointed out in this discussion is Virtual Machines under Linux. I can install VirtualBox from Sun on my Ubuntu system with ease. I can create a Virtual disk as big as I want as long as I have the disk space to do so. I can than install ANY Windows OS into said Virtual disk.

And you know what??? It will run faster than if I had installed Windows on my hard drive. You could run all the programs you want on your Virtual Windows OS and NEVER have to worry about viruses.

I have been messing with Linux since the first Mandrake release about 7-8 years ago and have never looked back. It tcp-ip stack is better written on Linux which makes my Linux box way faster on downloads and uploads. Over the years the install and driver issues with Linux have almost all been eliminated. The last major hurdle was the video card which now both major video card manufactures are making Linux drivers which can easily be installed.

Someone should mention that Yes, Windows XP was a major improvement over ME, 98, and 95 versions of Windows. But, with the Security problems after that was a major dissapointment for Microsoft. There were huge security leaks in XP which took a long time to get fixed. During that time there were so many boxes hacked that even now who really knows whether someone has access to there Windows box anymore. Especially with the tools out there for hackers to use now a days.

I would also mention the other beast in the Windows arsenal, Microsoft Office. They charge $300 for something you can get for free (OpenOffice or even use Google online office suite) and are now looking a Subscription based service to keep this cash cow alive.

I think its just a matter of time until Windows starts using there Patents against Linux. But, the bottom line is they better come up with something truly innovative quick that will keep there users in line because with each passing day Linux is starting to make great in roads on the desktop. Windows has already been defeated on the Server but the desktop and Office are there last stands.

[edit on 4-7-2008 by hoochymama]

The only problem with virtualization is no direct access to the graphics or gpu. So there is no 3D acceleration support. Vmware or Virtual box is just to test software and maybe a little 2D graphics. That still needs improvement would be nice to have full access to 3D acceleration. Highly 3D games failed to launch under windows xp in vmware. But overall it is very useful and might even eliminate dual boot because i don't like to dualboot anymore. I want to be able to run multiple os at once lol. Hence is why i have 8GB of ram on my rig.

But virtulization is a big Plus because you can test out things that you wouldn't dare doing on your real system.

[edit on 4-7-2008 by MarioJP]

An important thing to know about Linux, is that Linux composes maybe 10%, of the desktop market share, maybe 15% which could be stretching it a bit.
The only reason commercial games are not big on Linux is the simple fact that game designers know where their bread and butter comes from, and that is writing for MS windows. As Linux grows, the game designers will pay attention.
The good thing going for Linux is there are far more people programming for it, all (or most) on a volunteer basis.
Sure MS has fewer programmers, but they are paid to write programs, whereas paid people can put out a whole lot of code, perhaps as much as 4x the a9m] bv (Fudgy the cat wrote that (not the white one)), as much 4x or more (perhaps) , lets face it, if someone's job is to write programs for 8hrs a day, stuff gets done, compared to the programmer who writes when they feel like it, sometimes stuff doesn't get completely bugged out right away.

Each OS has their problems, but as Linux gets more popular, it can only get better, and although I do not write programs, I am proud to be part of the community, and that's what Linux is to me. A community.

Every day that I boot up I feel like I am part of a movement towards free and open software.

I like that. And it gets better everyday.

PS, see my link to download an .ISO that you can run on your computer to test it out, no need to install, it will run on RAM, just burn an .ISO to a disk and put it in your disk drive and reboot, please note that bootup will take a bit longer, and some features are not accessable, it's a test drive, it's not yours yet. But it's free, nothing to lose.

[edit on 5-7-2008 by Toadmund]

reply to post by Toadmund


um... its actualy more like .8% of the market share. Here is the link.

That just gives an idea of how few linux users there are out there in the desktop market. But it is growing... not as fast as mac OS, but its getting there.

-fm

Well don't really have a good answer where this is going. But one thing for sure and one thing thats a fact is game developers wants a unified platform so they can at least get the games going. I mean PC's are not as unified as consoles are but at least windows keeps it together enough where they still makes high end games for the pc. Otherwise the worst case scenario is the gaming business will just focus on consoles and that be that. as it is as unified as it can be. Guess what i am trying to say is if games were to be on Linux then they would have to do couple of things for this to become a reality. Such as

1.Must have a at least a distro for developers to deal with (like a console)

2.Since pc's are a true open platform they are going to have to put up with drm just like in windows as we speak.

3.OpenGL will definitely needs some major improvement and not just for the desktop effects either. I mean OpenGL has not been updated in a very very long time. Thats one areay Direcx is very good at are games and making sure every special effects these newer titles that throws a punch at your hardware works at first day's launch.

which is those reasons why Linux hasn't got their attention yet.

As far as the market share goes I am surprised vista surpassed Linux after seeing those charts lol. Linux had a chance there but nope oh well. Not saying Linux is not getting popular either but just saying that vista is the most hated os ever but yet it still manages to survive the most heavy bombardment lol.

As far as those free games goes well all i can say is there free and i guess whatever floats your boat on those and could be good. But i am not going to give up advancements in gaming just because it is free. I love technology and believe it or not Linux in the desktop front is advanced and thats pretty cool. But in other areas needs improvements. I guess theres room for all type of markets i guess.

Anything will be apple is the one thats going to go head to head with Microsoft. And maybe google as well too.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by MarioJP]

On the desktop Linux is getting to the point where the game developers will HAVE to start porting there games. Its only a matter of time. The only argument against Linux on this thread is that Linux doesn't have the gaming platform. The gamers have been in the forefront on the advancement of every aspect of the computer, whether that be Video Cards, Motherboards, RAM, CPU's, etc. It has always been about speed that has driven the development of the PC.

On the Server side it isn't even a contest. Linux is far and away the biggest platform to run server from and that isn't even counting Google's FARM of Linux boxes which probably numbers in the 10's of thousands if not more.

Personally the main reason I switched from Microsoft was because I don't like the idea of Monopolies. I don't like the idea that one company can pre install whatever they want on a computer I buy. What I do like is not worrying about my computer slowing down after a couple months of usage and having to reinstall. What I do like is total control of what I want to run on my system. What I do like is being able to create my own distro to my liking. What I do like is being able to network multiple computers together without having to buy the "Professional" version.

Linux is freedom as far as I am concerned. Everyone has a choice and if you want to use Windows that is fine with me. Just remember, at some point down the road you might find out that there is a better option even if you are a gamer.

I seen the options and i even tried and i understand what you are saying. I personally Don't care much about software knowing that fact that whatever i have been using for the past years has never failed on me.

With that said I think we are approaching to a time where we are seeing more options then ever before. I have seen and messed with Linux. But to have it as a primary os don't think thats going to be good for me as far as Gaming goes. And i certainly don't want to game on consoles either. Because as it stands its the consoles thats going to take the spotlight in gaming. Developers just want to make sales in a short amount of time. Especially Electronic Arts. PC Gaming Its barely even Surviving in the most mainstream os Due to lots of negative things such as piracy, To much works and all those those critics about how bad pc gaming is bla bla bla.?? What makes you think Linux will be any different.

The simple fact is If there is no money for the development cost to continuing advancing then there is no games. Thats all these gaming companies care about. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo well mostly Sony and Microsoft are going neck to neck.

You do realize and i realized that gaming is as big as movies and music videos. Consoles will help them get the big bucks because it is a very closed platform like a mac owned by one of the following companies.

My biggest concern is Linux might degrade the quality of gaming. It might become flash based games lol. Not that i have anything against flashed based games but Pc's will be the laughing stock compared to consoles. As long as there are consoles. PC gaming has a battle it must fight. There just isn't any room or effort to be thinking other alternatives until windows pc gaming has become as popular as the consoles. Then thats when Porting games to Linux Begins

[edit on 6-7-2008 by MarioJP]

There was a time when PC gaming was at its peek. When Myst came out it was the biggest thing since sliced bread. Mind you, this was what, 10-15 yrs or so ago?? I remember Oregan Trail when I was young was the best game on the PC and it was text based. A console in theory should never match the graphics of a PC.

I think Linux could actually bring the PC game back because you wont loose the resources of playing a PC game to Windows. Linux uses sooo much less resources yet being way more powerful. My computer is 5 yrs old and I have a Radeon 7500 graphics card, yet, my PC is faster than the most powerful PC's on the market. There is just such a slow down with a Windows machine the more you use it but a Linux machine never slows down.

I used to dual boot back in the day to play Unreal Tournament on my PC because at that time Linux wasn't able to run it. I would play UT than when I needed to browse the web or read email I would boot back into Linux.

Funny how i never had that problem I have lots of things running but 0 performance hit in games i even have multiple games running just so i can be in the game's lobby and i don't feel a impact at all. Now as far as resources goes. The only time you get a performance hit is when your cpu starts doing other things while trying to run your game. When this happens that means you have a mis behaving app or a virus. But as for me that never happens to me because i keep those processes in check. I never had a performance hit in windows. Just as long as the process remains in idle and the only process that should be using your cpu is when your gaming.

You be surprised how much junk these retail pc's have. If you get rid all their third party crap you be amazed how much ram you get back. And one thing i noticed recently is the directx api keeps getting updated every time when i look for driver updates on newer games. And another reason why gaming companies is attached to windows is because of Microsoft's api its very well suited for multimedia and gaming. That is why game developers prefer the xbox360 over the ps3 to program because its similar to the pc's dumbed down counterparts

[edit on 6-7-2008 by MarioJP]

[edit on 6-7-2008 by MarioJP]

Not many people have a RIG like yours. Most people who use a PC don't need that kind of power. 8 gigs of RAM is crazy. You would never in your life time use all your RAM in the next 5 years running every program you have installed. I would assume that your primary use for your PC is gaming. This is fine, but the majority of people don't use there PC for gaming. Not only that, they have no idea the security problems associated with running in Root as a user. They also have no idea how to close ports. They can't even use the free firewall software upgrade in service pack 2 in XP.

I agree, if you use your system for games than Windows is the choice for you. But, I do have a question. How many times have you had to reinstall your Windows OS??? Be honest.

Honestly and its ok if you don't want to believe me but i have never reinstalled the os thanks to this wonderful awsome security software that just works and its insane.


www.faronics.com

Keeps virus and trojans away and no updates required too =) and keeps my system integrity at 100% on every restart hardly do i defrag too =)

only time i do a reinstall is when i do a major upgrade such as upgrading my Motherboard but other than that rarely do i reinstall =)

best of all its only 30-40 bucks

and about "me not using all my 8gigs of ram" well i can assure you i was using 4.75GB of ram running 4 virtual machines at the sametime and nope hardly do i feel a impact. Each machine ran perfectly fast as my host.

Following machines os were installed

1 XP 32

2.Linux Ubuntu 8.04 64

3 Vista 32

4 Vista 64

and the host os was Windows Vista X64 (U)

And i was running a game on top of all of that which added total of 5.75GB of ram use (F.E.A.R takes up a whoppin 1GB of ram lol)

With everything cranked to the max at 1600x1200 at a FPS 60-75 (higher the frames the smoother the gameplay)

[edit on 6-7-2008 by MarioJP]

Holy geez. I'm hearing allot of people whining that they want to be able to play their games immediately out of the box.

... if you want that then why are you using Windows at all?! Or even a PC for that matter.

Get a console.


For the rest of us that realize that PC's aren't just about playing games, there's better options than windows.


... seriously, there's the 360, PS3, and Wii... pick one up and you'll never have to deal with the hassles of installations again.


I also noticed allot of people remarking about Linux not having a large chunk of the market on desktop PC's.
Well no duh. First and foremost, its primary function is as a server. (look up those numbers and the constant security problems windows servers have had, and you'll realize why the internet is still running... short answer, linux.)

The good thing for us PC users is, the kernel is so efficient that it is easily used on PC's. Including those PC's that would otherwise be a paperweight due to Windows being incapable of running on older hardware.

I've used Linux to save many windows users behinds. Extracting data from the hard drives, and even patching windows from within Linux using a bootable Linux disk.
Recovering lost data, allowing people to use their computer while the hard drive is toasted... the list is endless. Quite frankly, Linux has inadvertently made me ALLOT of money.
(Microsofts answer to them was "Buy windows again, or give us $$$$$$ to solve your problem."


If you place windows on an Ubuntu machine, windows treats Ubuntu like a virus, and tries to eliminate it.
If you place Ubuntu on a corrupted windows machine, Ubuntu asks if you'd like it to have a crack at fixing Windows.

An older windows machine of mine was pretty corrupted. The repair CD wasn't capable of fixing the issue without wiping content. So I put the Ubuntu CD in thinking, hey, I'll install Ubuntu on the remaining space, then recover the files from there and wipe windows after that... only... some of the software through Ubuntu was able to repair the damage to the other partition, and viola, Windows ran again, thanks to Linux.
Talk about taking the high ground.


And yes, it's only a matter of time before the game makers will have to write their games for Linux.
But really... if you want to play games without having to deal with installations... GET A CONSOLE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING USING A PC?

[edit on 6-7-2008 by johnsky]

Not when you have a firmware update that does this to your ps3

www.megagames.com...

i still can't stop laughing about that LOL

and you want to talk to me about hassle free cmon now. I rather prefer a blu screen over a red ring of death or a firmware bricking your ps3 anyday. At least bsod is fixable. Which only leaves the nintendo wii as being the true console but then again wii is not my thing.

So really i prefer gaming on the pc over consoles anyday. Sides Red Alert 3 is around the corner. And RTS games are not meant for consoles either.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by MarioJP]

reply to post by MarioJP

Just to make a point...you have had to deal with the "BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH". Have you had to deal with it in the middle of a game????

Look, its great you can run all the programs with the 8 gigs of ram you have but I am not talking about you as a person who has no idea about computers. I am talking about the users who have know idea how to lock down there ports, how to secure ssh, etc. Windows XP is the worst secure OS ever to hit the market.

The cool thing with Linux is that I have NEVER, whether you want to believe me or not, installed Anti Virus - Anti Pop Up - Defragmented my Hard Drive - etc.

Another question, have you EVER had to defrag your hard drive??? With the list of OS on Virtual Machines your running you must have over a 150 gig hard drive. I would assume you have had to Defrag your hard drive at one point. How long does that take you???



[edit on 7-7-2008 by hoochymama]

Matter a fact i do and only when i have it disabled to make some permanent changes. But for the most part no because of faronics and you obviously don't understand what faronics is so i won't go there until you understand exactly what it is.

so first read it and then come back to me

www.faronics.com...

and no i havent had any blue sceen. Only when i am overclocking and my hardware overheats but thats been fixed.

Anyways this is the last post because i am tired and tired of debating. on my last quote just use whatever floats your boat. Just because one is not having a issue with the os and others are doesn't give them the right to tell them to switch because of their experiences. Thats bs and pretty lame if you ask me. I would of giving in and probaly wouldn't debate on this if in fact windows was really bad. But turns out theres alot of these third party and the only thing windows suffers is that it uses your ram mostly but that can be easily trimmed down and rarely ever uses your cpu cycles. Sides ram is dirt cheap nowadays so this put this debate further down hill. You guys treat ram like if it was precious gold but in reality ram is just plain cheap.

Viruses well not yet on Linux just wait until it grows and will see what these hackers,spammers,crackers, these people are pretty smart and probably even linux users themselves well not linux users but professionals that knows there way around mac and Linux. Let it pick up steam first and wait and then you will see if any virus will happen on linux.

So in the end i am tired of debating its no longer fun and its not getting anywhere. So this is going to be my last post and be happy gaming with my other friends and maybe throw a lan party. So do what you like and what makes you happy. I don't even know how i end up in these forums but its obviously this is not the forums for me. so anyways peace and do whatever makes you happy.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by MarioJP]