Tokamak...Hidden Dangers?

the tokamak project. Fusion energy, using superheated plasma encased in an electromagnetic jar to create electricity.

Sounds great right? Using the power of the sun to create all the energy the world will ever need.

But what of the hidden dangers?



Super heating anything to the temperatures required for Tokamak which reportedly are even greater than the internal core temperature of the sun is scary enough, lets not forget the magnetic jar that has to be there to encase this plasma which is even more powerful than the magnetic field of the earth.

What would happen if something went wrong? Would our magnetic pole be irreversibly disoriented? What in the case of a leak? Would the superheated plasma burn through to the core of the Earth?

Some links for your educational edification...
Operate Your Own Tokamak Reactor

Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor

Tokamak

[edit on 7/1/2008 by whatukno]

Believe it or not I am a EE with specialty on plasma related topics.. I remember studying the Tokamak in one class. I haven't went to your links yet but appreciate the post of the subject. I know it involves magnetic containment of a fusion reaction.. Maybe easiest for general public to think of the Spiderman and Doc Oct issue.. You don't hear a lot about fusion any more.

the plasma would not burn through the Earth any more than a lightning strike would.

The dangers are highly localized. The people in the lab are at risk, but the rest of the world isn't.

the magnetic aspect, i am unsure about. i don't know how it effects the earth. i suspect it is very little...but that is a wild guess.

its because I don't know that I ask.

Whats odd about this is the new ITER project being constructed in France

en.wikipedia.org...

www.iter.org...

The temperatures here are astronomical, and the magnetic field generated is the scarry part. How do we know if that magnetic field won't warp Earths own magnetic field and completely disrupt the poles?

The danger here is the continued waste of billions of taxpayers dollars on a provably unworkable technology. Oh and by the way the fusion problem has already been solved using an upgrade of Philo Farnsworth's fusor technology. The genius behind this was the late Robert Brussard.

By the way Dr. Brussard also developed a reusable atomic propulsion system that would permit a moon flight to made in under 24 hours and a Mars flight to take place in less than a week.

www.americanantigravity.com...

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
the plasma would not burn through the Earth any more than a lightning strike would.

The dangers are highly localized. The people in the lab are at risk, but the rest of the world isn't.

the magnetic aspect, i am unsure about. i don't know how it effects the earth. i suspect it is very little...but that is a wild guess.

Yeah but the plasma is still far hotter than Sun's core where Sun's core is far hotter than Lightning strike

reply to post by whatukno

What would happen if something went wrong? Would our magnetic pole be irreversibly disoriented?

No... because the Configuration of the field is generated by a toroid having a Primary & Secondary Magnetic Field.

Although the Primary Field is quite strong the Secondary field is far weaker.

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

What in the case of a leak? Would the superheated plasma burn through to the core of the Earth?

Only if the Temperature of the Plasma was retained.
Could be done I guess, applying the correct conditions ???

reply to post by whatukno


the energy of the plasma will immediately dissipate when out of containment , the reaction cannot sustain itself outside .

reply to post by masonicon


the sun has a lot more mass to sustain the fusion, the tokomak cannot sustain it without artifical magnetic fields

reply to post by sadchild01


You may find some Development work has been done in the past involving weapons design, and extended Magnetic fields (Transmission) used in the deployment from an orbiting satellite, intended as a weapon to scorch (sterilise) areas on the Earth ….

Not sure what you may dig up regarding this ???

Might be only a myth ????

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by sadchild01

 

You may find some Development work has been done in the past involving weapons design, and extended Magnetic fields (Transmission) used in the deployment from an orbiting satellite, intended as a weapon to scorch (sterilise) areas on the Earth ….

Not sure what you may dig up regarding this ???

Might be only a myth ????

its no myth , but these are underground based installations

soviets had developed this technology ,refer to the elipton super weapon on yandex.ru or even google .
also refer to psychotronic golgotha ,which talks about magnetic and bioplasma fields and how soviets would manipulate it for mind control,remote influencing,causing heart attacks,creation of diseased or causing instant death or symptoms similiar to demon possession.

also you can refer to tom bearden's scalar weapons website

reply to post by whatukno


Fusion is much safer than fission power. The mass of the reactor is more than enough to quench the plasma should containment fail. These reactor designs require the fields to be in place and a continuous supply of fuel to sustain fusion. Without either fusion stops. There is absolutely no chance of the plasma burning through the earth.

Strong magnets such as those employed in the reactors cannot harm the earth in any way. The vast majority of the field is contained within the reactor anyway.

The most dangerous aspect is the high energy neutrons produced, which could cause harm in the immediate area if they escaped. The worse escape would be a short pulse however.

This is all explained well in wiki.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
Only if the Temperature of the Plasma was retained.
Could be done I guess, applying the correct conditions ???

I very much doubt it, the conditions to achieve the fusion in the first place are incredibly specific, sure if the thing did blow up there would be a rather large hole where the lab used to be! - But I can't see the fusion reaction becoming self sustaining outside of the Tocomak, take the sun for instance, massive dense and hot, that can sustain a fusion reaction... All we would have on Earth is the heat, we don't have the fuel in a dense enough format...

Actually all that makes up the Earth and everything on it are the by products from stars... So simply put the stars them selves could not use it as fuel, we have no chance.

reply to post by whatukno

Super heating anything to the temperatures required for Tokamak which reportedly are even greater than the internal core temperature of the sun is scary enough

Not scary in the slightest... Remember, Temperature does not Equal Energy.

Tokamak reactors only have a few grams of hydrogen inside them at any given time.

Let us just say, for the sake of expediency, that there is 10 grams of hydrogen inside the reactor at 100 million degrees Celsius. (Standard Operating Temperature)

Heat Capacity of Hydrogen = 14.30 J/(g·K)

This is Joules of Energy per Gram, per degree Kelvin of Temperature.

So, 10 grams of Hydrogen at 100,000,000 degrees Celsius contains:

100,000,000 * 10 * 14.30 =

14,300,000,000 joules.



Now, just to put this into perspective... This amount of energy would heat an Olympic sized swimming pool by about 1.5 degrees Celsius.

Olympic sized swimming pool contains 2,500,000,000 grams of water
Specific Heat Capacity of water at 25 degrees Celsius is 4.1813 joules per gram per degree Kelvin.

So, an increase of One Degree Kelvin (Celsius) of the swimming pool would require:

2,500,000,000 * 4.1813 =

10,453,250,000 joules.

Contrast this to the Specific heat energy of the Hydrogen in the Reactor:

14,300,000,000 joules of heat energy in the plasma.
10,453,250,000 joules of heat energy to raise a swimming pool of water by one degree.

So, No.... it is not scary at all.


-Edrick


[edit on 2-8-2010 by Edrick]

reply to post by Edrick


Oh no, will the swimming pool heater melt through the planet

The LHC is more scary than this... besides isn't plasma superheated rarefied gas? or is that just florescent lights.

public.web.cern.ch... lol your lil plasma thing is like ice compared to the LHC :p

reply to post by whatukno


The biggest danger from the Tokamak is to your pocket book.

Since this is a government funded exercise in futility, its purpose is not to actually generate a surplus of electricity (which it will never do), its purpose is to give State funded scientists jobs.

If they actually solved the fusion problem, the State scientists would then be out of work. They would have to go find real jobs in the private sector. This would be a tragedy.

Out of all the possible methods of creating fusion power, it is not a freak coincidence that the Tokamak is by far the most expensive and least feasible method around.

Various other methods are closer to the energy surplus barrier by a wide margin, however those methods are ridiculously cheap and easy by comparison.

Since they are cheap and easy, they can't be used to suck the life out of the tax payers for eternity.

Here's some real fusion:

Eric Lerner: Google Tech Talk – Focus Fusion: The Fastest Route to Cheap, Clean Energy
video.google.com...#

Robert Bussard: Google Tech Talk - Should Google Go Nuclear? Clean, cheap, nuclear power
www.youtube.com...

Eric Lerner is also a published plasma cosmologist.

To put it in perspective, you have more chances to die from an accident with a Ford Fusion, that a fusion reactor leak.

Thanks for the thread, it is very informative. Thanks to whatukno for the videos.

reply to post by whatukno


Some additional info .....
Horizon Can We Make a Star on Earth 1/6



BBC Documentary with Professor Brian Cox .

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More fear mongering paranoia with no basis. It truly is pathetic.