so wait let me get this straight islam is just christianity part duex

For years ive heard several comments about how the Muslims are of course all bad and most of these comments have been by Christians. Ill admit i know very little about Muslim beliefs so i decided to do a little research. Muslims are for what i can see Christians that believed in a prophet after jesus named Mohammad. The koran is essentially from what ive read the same as the Christian bible with a few exceptions, the first that most will point out is the Christians believe god is 3 parts but islam teaches god is one and its pretty damn strict on that. Then you have the multiple wives thing which i think was pretty much a "hey we wont convert to islam if this isnt allowed" much like christmas was originaly a pagan holiday it got mutated in to get more followers.

Then you have the whole 72 virgin thing which from what ive read isnt even virgins its a mistranslation of another word which means white grape. In the news and movies you hear people speaking of suicide bombers thinking they will be rewarded in heaven with these virgins but suicide is considered a sin by muslims so no ticket to paradise for bombers.

At what point in time did all this disinformation Muslims become the norm and why? I mean essentially Christians and Muslims seem to be reading from the same book with subtle variations in tradition.

Islam is based on the old testiment. Muslims believe the Bible became corrupted by men, misquoted, written by too many people etc... and the Quran is supposed to be the true, final word of God as dictated to Muhammed by the Angel Gabriel (written in his lifetime).

Muslims do recognize Christ, as well as many other prophets, but they believe Muhammed was the last prophet an the Quran is the final word of God. They feel very strongly there is only ONE God, and do not recognize that God had a son that should be worshipped as a separate diety.

The tricky thing with Islam are the Hadiths. Those are the stories about prophet, what he said, what he did, etc...that were passed on and written down after he died. Most Muslims believe the Hadith's are as important as the Quran because it tells them how to pray, and gives lots more instructions on various things i detail (such as saying dogs are unclean and all that).

Plus the Sunni and Shia (like Catholics and Protestants) both follow slightly different Hadiths and have some differing beliefs.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by minniescar


actually, judaism 3.0.

The jews came first - old testament
next came Christianity - new testament
then you get Muslims - Koran

it is somewhat comical that everything supposedly comes from the same source, the same god and yet, nobody can get along. somewhere, the aliens who came down from the skies and messed with the minds of the ancients are laughing.

It is not really so surprising, they are all worshipping the same God, a tribal war God. : )

So essentially every american i know is in the dark from what im finding ( including myself prior to my research)


The main reason i got into reading about this is i was thinking of various beliefs in the origin of man and i recently read the terra papers and the part where it talks about one ruler destroying all historical records prior to his reign made me think is that possible? is It really possible for one leader to sway that many people into believing other beliefs are false and eventually try to wipe them out with dis info , is it possible people are that much like sheep? Well given that the vast majority of the Christians in this country believe the Koran to be some sort of devil book i would say its highly possible that a leader could accomplish this.

reply to post by minniescar


I have some muslim friends at work. When they moved here from Iran, they went to a christian church to see what it is like.

And they said they were surprised at how similar the two religions are.

Oh yeah they are the same...So if you take Islam
Minus the Savior that was crucified and then resurrected.
Add in "martyrs"( I say that loosely) who blow themselves up to kill innocent.

Yeah that balances...........

The problem with Muslims is that (for some reason) they tend to be ten times more radical in the modern age.
(I don't want a history lesson about some # who decided to slaughter people in God's name...)
People always say "Christianity has rough edges too" and they do. Just not nearly as pronounced or active.

Originally posted by Glorious_Ruler
The problem with Muslims is that (for some reason) they tend to be ten times more radical in the modern age.

Well I socialize with Muslims quite a bit (mostly online, not many strict Muslims around here) and they take the Quran/Hadiths much more literally, they really obsess over that stuff. Though most of the Muslim world has changed to fit the times to some extent for instance they have officially abolished slavery and such.

On the otherhand Christians pretty much pick and choose what they want to follow rules wise, sure they worship Jesus as a diety but beyond that they can agree or disagree on tons of stuff and on top of that they disregard most all the rules of the old testiment unless those rules suite them (i.e. homosexuality is forbidden! but women can teach and don't have to cover their hair, and lets forget about the pork thing, etc...). Apparently God changed his mind about all that stuff after he thought about it for a while.

Muslims deny jesus is the saviour and son of God, so no, islam is NOT the MK II of Christianity.

The koran is a copy and rehash of the Bible, with bits written to suit the times and needs of the creators of islam.

Mohammed was nearly killed by the 'being' who dictated the koran to him... so thats no very nice or angelic is it ?? more scary and nasty...

Christianity and islam are not, nor ever have been the same religion. we don't see God as being Allah either.

Allah is mean and cruel, Lord Jesus christ is loving kind and peaceful.

That there is my take on it, though I know people will beg to differ.

Originally posted by Dan TannaAllah is mean and cruel, Lord Jesus christ is loving kind and peaceful.

Yes the Quran is based on the old testiment. In case you never read the old testiment, Yahweh is far more brutal than Allah. The Quran does not advocate wiping out ones enemy, every man, woman and even tiny children, and only sparing the young virgin females to be kept as slaves.

The Old Testiment allows that and much more.

The rules of war in the Quran prohibit killing non-combatants, and further prohibit salting land, burning trees, destroying crops, etc... Granted some radicals justify such actions, but it is officially prohibited.

to say Islam is a version 3.0 is alittle simplistic

before Islam the tribes in the middle east had their own god(s) Allah was actually a moon god of Muhammads tribe.

www.fixedearth.com...
www.biblebelievers.org.au...

funnily enough ask a muslim what the crescent moon symbol stands for and most dont even know, but it was probably a symbol used to represent the premuslim allah.

but muhammad wasnt a complete idiot he realised if he was going to try to use religeon to seize power for himself he needed to try to legitimize his ramblings to do so he used parts of the old and new testament (best way to hide a lie is to wrap it between 2 truths).

if you read the koran you will notice its alittle disorganised, and if you read the hadiths you will notice that while muhammad was preaching one thing he was doing another (not the best role model for an alleged religeon of peace)

by trying to hedge Islam in as an Abrahamic religeon its nothing more than a way for them to legitimize their pagan god.

as was stated by Jesus Christ

If a man shall say unto you, Lo here is Christ, or there; Believe it or not. For there shall arise false Christ’s and false Prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; in so much that if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.’ (St Mathew 24:23, 24)

As he sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately saying,

"Tell us when shall these things be? And what shall be the signs of thy coming and of the end of the World?" Jesus answered and said unto them, "Take heed that no man deceives you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many.

reply to post by Demandred




uhhh huh. cannot say it better. Pagan moon god. Nothing more nothing less.

Jesus is the way the truth and the light. All else .. well all else is your business not mine - I follow Jesus and nothing else matters to me.

What matters to you is personal taste and preference.

Each to their own.

........ or Paganism, part Quatre. Now, consider that the foregoing might be true. That STILL doesn't invalidate any part of the quartet..... hmmmm......... maybe I'm getting old...... but it seems to validate the quartet as a whole.

Somebody recently called me a "Universalist" and they said it with a sneer and it pissed me off.

I called them a Galactarian pig and walked away whilst they pondered. I should have spat for emphasis.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by argentus]

radical islam needs, and will be, stopped

killing in the name of the lord is a sin,

now for oil, thats a different story

Oh yeah they are the same...So if you take Islam
Minus the Savior that was crucified and then resurrected.
Add in "martyrs"( I say that loosely) who blow themselves up to kill innocent.

Yeah that balances...........

See thats the what im talking about the lack of knowledge of the koran turning into a christian getting defensive.

1. they dont take jesus out he is in the book he is listed as a prophet and his story is told they just dont name him as the son of god but neither do jews. I dont see people thinking the jews are evil.

2. The martyrs are either misguided individuals or just plain out religious nuts who failed to read the book. Suicide is not forgiven in the teaching of islam so suicide bombers thinking they are martyrs is wrong. Christians have nuts as well take the westboro baptist church for example or how many times have you heard a serial killer say " god told me to do it" ? Every side has their wackos that mis interpret what they read.

3. Allah means god its a name not another god but a name much like Jehovah is a name for god its not a matter of two gods its a matter of a different term for the deity. For example those of you who will get defensive over my comparison do you know the that jesus's name isnt jesus? Its really yeshua or joshua, i guess in translation calling the lords son josh didnt seem to have quite the same impact.

4. Im sure the quoran was modified to fit the times just as the bible was , the bible incorporated many pagan traditions in order to convert pagans. Its like when they just renamed the statues that where originally for athena, the powers that be said "well keep them but lets just call them mary instead how about that?"


1a. The whole son of god thing has always bugged me since arent their chapters in the old testament that refer to all people being the children of god. Really did he every say that his paternal father was god? Or did he say he was the son of god and he was spreading the teachings of god ( ie a prophet) Did he die in gods name and say i do this for you father and mean it as its gods will. A few thousand years of translation and i can see how easily things might get a tad mutated.

after reading my reply as well as others i thought about it a bit and i think ill just go back to be being an atheist , its alot simpler and it comes with a lot less fighting over who is right and who is wrong.


Aliens put us here ill go with that

Originally posted by Demandred

(best way to hide a lie is to wrap it between 2 truths).

And which two truths would these be may I ask?? I assume one of them is a mish-mash of ancient middle eastern legends hand selected by a medieval dictator and a few contemporary scholars to maintain control over a naive population?

Is the other one, by any chance, a poor adaptation of a number of ancient Sumerian legends about the son of God taking physical form on earth, dying for the sins of mankind and subsequently rising from the dead, all set in the framework of a pagan sun-worship calendar? Again, tacked onto the end of the first 'truth' in order to frighten poorly educated Europeans in the middle ages into towing the line? Is this the truth of which you speak?? (Sorry... Someone told me sarcasm was the lowest form of humour, but I just can't help it :-)

The argument that God exists and is responsible for creation is, to my mind, entirely without basis, but I respect the fact that others view the world differently and interpret evidence (if they bother to look for it, which is rare) in a different way to me. What I truly can't get my head around is the, "my god is better than your God..." argument. Or, even more ludicrously, the , "my God exists and yours doesn't" argument In the absence of evidence (real evidence I mean...) for either story - Christianity/Islam - how can you possibly make this judgement? Surely the fact that one is an adaptation (or not) of the other which, in its self, is an adaptation of Judaism which is in turn an adaptation of ancient scripts from times when people worshiped star constellations is irrelevant?

The fact that most of our problems in the world today stem from this farce of a situation not only disappoints me, it frightens me!

Now I happen to think Dawkins is a prat, but I think it was him who said, "we are all atheists, I just go one God further...." How are you so sure you got the right god?? And on what basis did you discount the scores of others that have raised their heads throughout history?!

Sorry If I seem a little abrupt - this just really bugs me!

N

my dad can beat up your dad

lol but seriously, im not saying my god is better, im saying that the person who revealed the truths to mankind is better

lets take away the whole god issue and pit Muhammad against Jesus by the way they lived their lives

even if Jesus wasnt the son of god, even if he was nothing more than a man much like myself lets face it to live by his example isnt a bad thing, if every one followed his teachings (not the man) the world would be a better place.

however Muhammad said one thing and did another he made things harem just because he didnt like them, he pillaged and murdered engaged in slavery and stole

in my mind Jesus is the far better person to teach morals and ethics

I can't argue with that :-) Nothing wrong with leading by example and, on the flip side, following those who set a good example. Unfortunately it is very easy for people to exploit that relationship. The strange thing about religion is that (with main-stream religions at least) it wasn't the founders who exploited people, it's control freaks thousands of years removed from the original events! I'd guess we agree on that too.