A Vote For Obama is a Vote for Africa!!!, page 2

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reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 09:06 AM by Mad_Hatter

Originally posted by Gemwolf
Interesting. Some people are fine with the fact that their hard earned tax money is spent on a war, but not fine with it that money is spent on saving lives in another part of the world? Doesn't make sense to me.

But then again it isn't my tax money. My tax money goes into... wait a second... Africa? That's right. I rarely get anything in return for my tax money. But I know my money is used to help people that can't afford a medical aid. It's used to help build houses for the homeless. It's used to educate children that cannot afford school fees. Do I complain that I don't get much out of the deal? Nah. Because I'm lucky enough to have a roof over my head, fresh water out of the tap, a car, a medical aid, a savings account. So I'd rather get what I'm getting for my tax money. Rather that than seeing it spent on a brand new tank.

I get the feeling that some people are a bit unsure about what exactly is going on in Africa. Not that I blame you. The media is all you have. I am happy however to see that most people's hearts are in the right place.

Oh, and I wouldn't buy into that "south Africa is the murder/rape capital of the world" story either.

Thank God. Well said Gemwolf. I've been keeping my mouth closed on all the selfishness involved in this thread because I can't bring myself to confront it with civility. But thank you for that post. You said it exactly as I couldn't say it. Starred.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 09:08 AM by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Gemwolf
ut then again it isn't my tax money. My tax money goes into... wait a second... Africa? That's right. I rarely get anything in return for my tax money. But I know my money is used to help people that can't afford a medical aid. It's used to help build houses for the homeless. It's used to educate children that cannot afford school fees. Do I complain that I don't get much out of the deal?

Don't be so sure you don't get anything out of the deal. One more person with a roof over their head, recieving medical aid, getting an education and their stomach quited, is one less person faced with desperation. One less person faced with desperation is one less person driven to extremism, one less person who's ears and heart are recepitive to the lure of demagogues, and one less person picking up a gun and aiming it at us.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 09:11 AM by Loke.

DOH!..... Eric is on the Antiblack spree again, this is like the 10-15 other threads you have started. None constructive, racistic, low intelligent and 1 meter below the belt place.

Mate get your self a brown shirt and a black belt to go with it and stay in your bunker in the hillbilly land you are living in, and for fox sake pull out your internet cable and start doing your 3 reich exercises.(this was a joke mate

)

Best regards

Loke.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 09:18 AM by Gemwolf

reply to post by SaviorComplex

I couldn't agree more.

That's why I used words like "rarely" and "not much". At least there are still things like roads, public services, etc. I get.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 09:22 AM by SaviorComplex

It is very sad that some people have not learned the lessons history has provided us on how desperation breeds extremism, or how that desperation even in far-away lands comes to haunt all of us. The examples from the Weimar Republic in the 1920s/1930s or Afghanistan in the 1990s seem to mean nothing.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 09:31 AM by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by Gemwolf
I couldn't agree more. That's why I used words like "rarely" and "not much". At least there are still things like roads, public services, etc. I get.

And it is a lot cheaper than sending a plane to drop a bomb on that person, a tank to crush him, or a soldier to shoot him.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 09:48 AM by justamomma

reply to post by Gemwolf

i understand what you are saying, but how do you view someone who is not okay w/ their money paying for the war OR paying for africa's problem?

if someone wants to help the cause of another country, i am all for that, so long as it is not being done w/ my $$. i am not heartless, but i see plenty of ppl around me, here on my own homeland, that i would willingly and happily give the little bit i could to help them out were i allowed to keep that part of my money.

charity is not charity when it is not being given from the heart. for obama, or bush, i don't care WHICH president to help another country or even the lazy arses in this country w/ our money is not a mark on up on some charity chalkboard for him, them, or even us.

if obama becomes president, the only way i will have respect for him helping those in africa is if he is doing it w/ his own money!!

my family IS already sacrificing MUCH for the ppl of zambia, africa in that we have understood the heart of my father to help the ppl hands on and support, both mentally and even financially, his and my mom's decision to go over there and help.

so, IF the rumor IS true, i feel i have every right to be upset as i am already in a situation where our family is helping both hands on and financially.

and i am still angry that my money is going to fund a war i don't support. i have no problem w/ a bit of a tax helping to fund our troops, so long as they do their job and stay on the homeland to help protect it.

“To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it.”
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Joseph Milligan, April 6, 1816

“A wise and frugal government … shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.”
-Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1801

"it is justice, not charity, that is wanting in the world" ~ mary shelley

edited to add: the person earning the $$ is the better steward over it bc he/she labored for it. these ppl in washington throw so much of our $$ around bc they don't give a *snip* about what they didn't earn. i have no guarantees from them that $$ is going to any such charities they claim and therefore think i am better having it in my hands to decipher what is to be done w/ it.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 09:59 AM by bigbert81

reply to post by justamomma

Here's the way I see it. I do see your point, and I am not commenting on Obama or his views, but I am commenting on my views towards helping people in Africa.

You say that you see people here in your own homeland who need help. Fine, so do I. Here's the thing though, ALL men are brothers, not just those who happen to live closer to us. And to look out and see people closer to us that need help doesn't really say that much because people EVERYWHERE will ALWAYS need help. It's not like we can just focus on us until all the problems are resolved, and THEN move on to helping Africa. There will ALWAYS be people who require assistance.

As far as Africa goes, the issue I'm having is that so many of their problems can be so easily solved. That is why I definitely support helping them out, because we should be easily able to solve many of the problems they're suffering from. Clean water for example; 3,000,000 children per year die as a result of something so simple as not having access to clean water. Things like this can be so easily fixed to remedy many ailments, much quicker than we can fix all of the problems here in the US.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 10:06 AM by Buck Division

If Obama can alleviate some of the horrific problems of Africa, he has definitely got my vote.

I've never doubted that I would live to see ethnic and gender diversity come to a USA Presidential election. That is really no surprise to me. No big deal.

But I've always doubted that I would live to see the day that Africa would be stabilized and moved solidly into the first world. I can't imagine that really happening in my lifetime. That would be a tremendous deal.

I don't know if Obama, or any other USA President, could possibly accomplish that. Not during this generation of humanity.

Edit: On further reflection it seems a bit disingenuous of Obama to suggest helping Africa without producing a comprehensive plan to back this up. Obama gets points for discussing it, but loses points for possibly pandering (to people like me) with simple words, so it is a wash. I want to learn more about his ideas before I commit to voting for him.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by Buck Division]

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 10:06 AM by justamomma

reply to post by bigbert81

i respect your two cents worth and am all for you putting your personal funds, time, and energy into helping them out.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 10:08 AM by bigbert81

reply to post by justamomma

i respect your two cents worth and am all for you putting your personal funds, time, and energy into helping them out.

You see, brother, that's where we differ.

Whereas you say 'helping THEM out', I say 'helping US out'.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 10:15 AM by justamomma

reply to post by Buck Division

that's just it, OBAMA won't be..... we will. you all give him the credit for it like he is doing it out of his personal funds. he has and will have more $$ than i do and probably will ever have.

my $$ should be left to my own personal discretion when it comes to things such as helping africa.

again, you can't tell me i can't speak up about this bc i am making sacrifices for a country in africa, BUT I AM DOING IT out of my own volition. are any of you who are so for doing this taking from your own pockets and your time to help the ppl in africa? no, you are willing to let the government take it from your pockets AND ours.

we do have the power to change not only this country, but the world.. but to expect the government to do it is like expecting president bush to come clean w/ his true intent on the war. laughable.

i believe all of you who are for it have the right heart, but you buy into the hearts of ppl who give good speeches and tell you they are going to do "this or that" w/ your $$ when it is obvious they are doing no such things.

i trust YOU w/ the money YOU WORKED FOR. i don't trust them w/ your money. and if you sign over your money to these ppl, mine gets signed over too.

you wanna help, then help out of your own pocket. it can be done..... my family is proof of this

[edit on 2-7-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 2-7-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 2-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 10:21 AM by justamomma

Originally posted by bigbert81
reply to post by justamomma

i respect your two cents worth and am all for you putting your personal funds, time, and energy into helping them out.

You see, brother, that's where we differ.

Whereas you say 'helping THEM out', I say 'helping US out'.

*ahem* sister, i say 'them' bc 'us' is my family when it comes to the money i earn by my labor.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 10:22 AM by bigbert81

reply to post by justamomma

*ahem* sister, i say 'them' bc 'us' is my family when it comes to the money i earn by my labor.

Excuse me.

I am a guy, so I naturally tend to speak in the masculine.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 10:28 AM by Buck Division

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Buck Division

That's just it, OBAMA won't be..... we will. you all give him the credit for it like he is doing it out of his personal funds. he has and will have more $$ than i will and probably will ever have. Ny $$ should be left to my own personal discretion when it comes to things such as helping africa.

Good point Justa. I saw your post after I edited my own post. The real question here in my mind is whether Obama can really follow through on all of this. When we talk about REALLY helping Africa, we are discussing a REALLY hard thing.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. That seems to be the ongoing story of Africa.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 10:34 AM by Anonymous ATS

reply to post by eric52081

This is why America is stuck on stupid. This is why America has been taken over by the neocons. This is the fear that they play. As an African American, my husband and I both work and look to the governent for nothing. Probably make more money than the idiot that wrote this article.

This persons ignorance is truly sad. It is even sad that it is posted here, when most of the info seems to be trying to liberate people from the deceptions and lies being put on us by the elite. Truly pathetic.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 11:16 AM by deltaalphanovember

Madhatter, just to set the record straight about no oil in Africa:

Let me set the record straight about oil and gas in Africa:
Nigeria - 11th largest producer in the world
Libya
Egypt - Oil and Gas
Angola - 2nd largest in sub-saharan
Africa.
Chad
Cameroon
.. and many others
unfortunately not in Zimbabwe

Here are are official US stats:
www.eia.doe.gov...

And hey, Africans do need help, but lets get Mugabe out of power first!

Originally posted by Mad_Hatter
Instead of going into Iraq, we should have gone into Africa. But wait, there's no oil in Africa.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 11:49 AM by danx

To everyone crying that Obama will send billions to Africa, did you even read the article?

It starts like this:

His presidency could, besides pursuing a pro-African foreign policy, influence US transnational corporations, the Military Industrial Complex and scientific institutions to be fair to the continent

This is someone's opinion, not Obama's plans. The article was also written on February 20th 2008.

Furthermore, where does it say that Obama will send billions to Africa, or something to that effect? Even though the article reflects only the opinions (and wishes perhaps) of the author, many of the points addressed on it seem quite obvious, and should have been addressed long time ago by the West.

Obama's African ancestry is seen to hold great potentialities. For one, it holds the promise of a return to the truncated will of Africa's peoples to re-domocratise a western world whose legacy of pursuit of human freedom had been cut short by records of enslaving Africans followed by genocidal colonial invasions, settlement in, and administration of Africa.

The author believes that with Obama as President of the United States, people in Africa will feel interested in politics again and perhaps will try to bring change and democracy in their own countries. That's it.

I thought we wanted democracy in other places? Isn't that a good thing?

I went to look what are the actual policies of Obama for Africa:

# Stop the Genocide in Darfur
Barack Obama has been a leading voice urging the Bush Administration to take stronger steps to end the genocide in Sudan. He worked with Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) to pass the Darfur Peace and Accountability Act.[...] He also worked with Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) to secure $20 million for the African Union peacekeeping mission.

# End the Conflict in Congo
Obama revamped U.S. policy in the Congo to include a commitment to help rebuild the country, develop lasting political structures, hold accountable destabilizing foreign governments, crack down on corrupt politicians, and professionalize the military. The bill also authorizes $52 million in U.S. assistance for the Congo.

# Bring a Brutal Warlord to Justice
Former Liberian President Charles Taylor has been accused of committing war crimes by international prosecutors. After taking the presidency following a brutal civil war that decimated Liberia's population, Taylor created a rebel group that fought in neighboring Sierra Leone's civil war.[...] On July 19, 2005, Obama passed a bipartisan amendment, along with Senators Chuck Hagel (R-NE), Patrick Leahy (D-VT) and Judd Gregg (R-NH) to provide $13 million for the Special Court for Sierra Leone. Signed into law in November 2005, the Obama amendment provides critical funding to keep the Court up and running and dramatically enhances efforts to bring Charles Taylor to justice. Taylor was arrested in 2006. His trial began in June 2007 and was postponed until January 2008.

And I'm sure under Obama's presidency the United States will continue with it's humanitarian aid to Africa and other places, but has people have pointed out already, that's something that already currently happens and Bush has given more foreign aid than any other President.

These Obama attacks on ATS are starting to get incredibly ridiculous. If you want to 'attack' him, at least address the real issues. This is starting to feel like Fox News type smear campaigns.

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 12:32 PM by justamomma

reply to post by danx

pure Democracy is nothing more than "mob rule" with no provisions for the rights of the individual. so, yeah, maybe, i guess.

how other countries are ran is and never was meant to be our business as a country.

we were MEANT to be a Constitutional Republic, not a democracy. but old franklin knew what he was talking about when he said they would give us a republic, but it was questionable whether we could keep it or not.

no doubt considering ppl today don't even have a clue what the difference is btw the two let alone which one we were set up to be.

the gov't was never meant to have the rights to our money to fight wars on other nations soil, nor was it meant to take our money to freely hand out to the rest of the world in the name of "saving it." and the reason being is that the founding fathers knew quite well that a government was not only capable of lying and using YOUR hard earned money for its personal gain, but that it would. they knew because that is what they were fleeing and then fighting against.

government having control over your personal life and your personal assets is a very dangerous place to be no matter what the pretty package the lies they feed comes wrapped in.

those who fought for the freedom from tyranny in the name of this country understood the importance of taking personal responsibility for what is yours. the american ppl are very giving, but they are also very naive in trusting the gov't to put that money where they say they are going to put it. so naive they have handed over so much of the power to do good for this country and around the world in trade for the lies they are fed.

again, nothing wrong w/ charities, but unless it comes from your pocket given by your own hand it is hardly to be considered charity and an act of good will.

are you all so blind or uneducated as to the history of your own country? knowing that George Washington was the 1st president and that independence day is celebrated on july 4th hardly makes you knowledgeable about the history of what this country was founded on.

go learn for goodness sake..... go learn for the sake of us all before you blindly accept any more of these lies you are being fed.

the issues of this election go much deeper than most of you are even aware.

in fact, i fear we could be to far into this trap for an election to make any sort of a difference.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by justamomma]

reply posted on 2-7-2008 @ 12:37 PM by Mad_Hatter

reply to post by deltaalphanovember

Thanks for correcting me on that.

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