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Some facts about Iran, what many don't know...

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posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 11:43 AM
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After I read many threads about Iran today, I really start to believe that many doesn't know anything about that country at all.

Just to make some facts clear, what most of the people in the U.S. and Israel doesn't know, but want wars and want to send their people to there (These facts are usually censored in the media as always.). So, I collected a nice data sheet about Iran, which is maybe going to give you a real status about their military, that many believes it can be defeated easily.

Iran is around 636,372 square miles (Iraq is 1/6 of that country. Iran is around 3 times greater then Texas, while Iraq is the half of Texas.), The population of Iran is around 70 million, while Iraq had the population of 29 million (I also need to add, that the Coalition forces are also cannot handle that mass at all.).

About their weaponry. The range of their short and middle ranged missiles are around 2200 kilometers, capable to reach Israel if they must. They have the fastest and strongest Anti-Ship missiles on the world, the soviet SS-N-22 Sunburn (Faster then any other U.S. missile, hence there is not so much chance to intercept it. The greatest in that missile is... one missile per one capital ship minus.). There are app. 540000 well trained infantries, 300000 reserve infantries and 120000 Royal Guards (Elite Force, they have similar training to Delta Force and Seal) in the country. Unlike in the U.S., most of the Iranians served in the army. In overall more million people are capable to fight against the invading forces. And honestly I don't think so that the coalition forces are going to send millions of troops to Iran.

Plus, Iran have app. 27000 battle tanks, 3200 mobile artillery, app. 3 submarines, 59 ships (Corvettes to Destroyers, maybe 2-3 capital ships), 10 amphibious crafts and hundreds of aircrafts, including F-14 Tomcats and various other crafts and copters. They have around 950 crafts, many of them are using advanced Russian technology.

Plus, Iran is using Russian technology. The advantage of that radar system... it's able to detect completely the U.S. stealth crafts, such as the F-117 and B-2 (The U.S. never admit this, but I learned this in the academy of my country, from a Colonel, because my country had the same Russian technology too before we joined to the European Union. Just to tell you, a Hungarian shot down the only F-117 on the world.)

So, honestly, do you really want to attack Iran? Because if yes, both the U.S. and Israel must count for a real defense and a real counter offensive. And also they also must prepare for greater losses. Iran is not Vietnam, not Iraq and not even Afghanistan. Plus, the Russians and the Chinese are also on their side. The Russians are supplying great SAMs to them, what is usually not the favorite of the U.S. crafts.

There was a thread that Iran is able to shot out 11000 missiles within a minute. The fact is Iran is not bluffing at all. They have the right to defend their country. They have more then 11000 SS missiles, ready to launch a defensive strike on the aggressors if they have to. They're more powerful then as the American propaganda is telling. And the U.S. wasn't able to gain control in Iraq and Afghanistan, which is quite smaller countries, then Iran (See details above.). So, honestly, whoever is going to attack Iran, that one must face with sure retaliation, great resistance and sure defeat.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Dark Crystalline]




posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 12:38 PM
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They have the fastest and strongest Anti-Ship missiles on the world, the soviet SS-N-22 Sunburn (Faster then any other U.S. missile, hence there is not so much chance to intercept it. The greatest in that missile is... one missile per one capital ship minus.).


We have the best Defense systems in the world. And as your statement says below about radar is completely untrue. One of our last resort weapon systems for incoming missles is the CIWS (Close In Weapons System). I think the closet thing to our CIWS system is the "Goalkeeper". Our CIWS system will destroy anything that comes close to the ship, even if they are Sea skimmer missles. CIWS Phalanx And yes we have Multiple Phalanx systems mounted on ships.



Plus, Iran is using Russian technology. The advantage of that radar system... it's able to detect completely the U.S. stealth crafts, such as the F-117 and B-2 (The U.S. never admit this, but I learned this in the academy of my country, from a Colonel, because my country had the same Russian technology too before we joined to the European Union. Just to tell you, a Hungarian shot down the only F-117 on the world.)


I am a Field Engineer and my specialty is Radar systems. What I can tell you is that Russian Radar technology is not close to ours we can detect anything in the skies. I won't go into details due to national security but I can assure you that our Radar is far more advanced.


The Russians are supplying great SAMs to them, what is usually not the favorite of the U.S. crafts.


We already know this and rest assured we or I should say Israel already disabled them last year with ECM when Israel did a strike on a Nuclear facility in Syria. They are no match to our ECM. Russians still use vacuum theory in their electronics. We use solid state.


So, honestly, whoever is going to attack Iran, that one must face with sure retaliation, great resistance and sure defeat.


Yes there will be retaliation and great resistance. But definately not Sure defeat. Perhaps you need to do more research on US military weapon and defense systems. I have spent enormous amounts of time analyzing the Iranian/Russian weapon and defense systems comparing them to US systems and have come to one conclusion. The US is far more superior. Here is some research material for you available publically:

AN/SPS-40

AN/SPS-48

AN/SPS-49

Active Defense

Naval Combat Systems

That should keep you busy for awhile....If not Here are some videos


SNADS (Surface Navy Defense Systems

Electromagnetic Rail Gun

Weapons demonstration USS Fletcher

US Navy Seals

If you want to keep going I can compare the Iranian/Russian to US systems.

Please do not come on here saying you are sure of Defeat, they will not know what hit them




[edit on 1-7-2008 by kdial1]

[edit on 1-7-2008 by kdial1]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 12:48 PM
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Considering the manpower, weapons, and resources at their disposal, I doubt there will be any decisive victories on our behalf.

We're bogged down in Iraq and Afghanistan at the moment, and can barely keep these two ill-armed countries stable. All we could do is another shock and awe campaign that will probably result in a lot of unnecessary casualties among our pilots.

We need to step out of the picture, and let Israel do whatever they feel capable of doing on their own. Why must we always play World police for everyone? Haven't enough of our boys sacrificed their lives defending others who should be capable of defending themselves?


[edit on 7/1/08 by LLoyd45]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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i seriously doubt there will be ground troops in iran other than the special ops that are already there. this will be led by air force and ships at sea. the weapons are only as good as the people using them. i can only imagine what a few emp blast would do to iran.

(edit spelling)

[edit on 1-7-2008 by bamaoutlaw]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:40 PM
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kdial1. I was a pilot and I know how things are working in the Russian technology. They're far more advanced than as you believe. They seems to be old, and yes, they're using old tech, but they're far more better and trustworthz then the U.S. systems.

The Russian radars are working on a quite different way then the U.S. radar systems. They're more precise and more sensitive, while they don't need greater maintenance as the U.S. radars. What the Russian radars sees, the U.S. cannot see.

About the ECM. You cannot wipe out the Russian systems with that. All the Russian systems were built to withstand even the ECM of a nuclear blast. Most of the U.S. systems are fries in this case. You may believe that the ECM will wipe out those systems, but in this case you will get a hell of a surprise, when the crafts are arriving over Iran. Israel didn't use EMP against Syria. They just made an aggressive hit and run attack, that's all. It's just pure Israeli propaganda.

The U.S. just want to believe that they're superior. They said the same about the F/A-18s and F-15s, that it's able to defeat any Russian jets. Then when my country had a simulated training with the U.S., our pilots wiped them out for 10-1 with almost twenty years old Mig-29s. So, don't even count for this, because the U.S. technology sucks against the Russian technology completely. Of course, if you feel yourself safer from this, believe in it. But I know how the Russian technology works, after I learned that for two years. I also know how the U.S. tech works, because I learned that too. What do you think, what shot down that almighty F-117? A twenty years old simple, ancient Russian piece of junk. That's telling everything about the U.S. tech superiority.

Here is a nice promo of a redesigned, but old Mig29OVT.
www.youtube.com...

The essence is around the end of it (Up from 8 minutes). The old Migs are able to do the same, while the F series crafts, especially the older ones are not even close to them in maneuverability.

Do you know what is the real difference between the U.S. and Russian technology. The Russian technology works in minus and plus 70 degree, while most of the U.S. system dies around -25 and 40 (There are quite hotter in the desert then 40 degree.). What do you think, how is it possible that the AA systems are shooting down your own crafts, instead of the enemy? Because the temperature is killing your high-tech FF systems and it's making great mistakes.

Here is another nice video, about their AA system.
www.youtube.com...

And the best video.

Here is a small video about the Iranian Army
www.youtube.com...

The Iranians are pretty good pilots. They shot down 150 Iraqi jets with one loss. The U.S. lost quite more against the Iraqi Air Force. And as you can see the video... I believe many of those crafts will be familiar to you... because many of them are U.S. made crafts, such as the Tomcat. But they had the advantage to set them up for their own environment. So, unlike in Iraq, you will have to face against both U.S. and Russian mixed technology, while you have only U.S. tech at your disposal. Where the U.S. tech fails in the desert, the Russian technology may take it's place. And if the two engineering is combined, be it a twenty years old jet, the U.S. has slightly reduced chances against it.

So in overall, don't underestimate them at all. This is not going to be a cake walk battle as Iraq. Number 1, because they're counting for the attack. Number 2, because you cannot cover the entire country with even four carrier groups, not as you did in Iraq. Longer supply lines are needed both on the ground and in the air. Especially hard to resupply crafts over hostile territory. It's a pretty risky thing, especially when SA-5s are waiting for you from behind every smaller dunes. Maybe the first attacks will succeed, you will wipe out 3-4 smaller outposts and maybe two-three airfields. But you cannot cripple a country, which is tree times larger then Texas. You wasn't able to do that with a country, which was quite smaller then Texas (Iraq). So, how would you do that this time? You don't have a chance to achieve victory at all. The only chance to make a greater victory is to use nukes. But that victory will be only temporary, because in this case Russia will fire their nukes to the one who used nukes. Remember, Russia and China is on Iran's side. Whoever is going to attack that country, that one will have to face with these other two countries too.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Dark Crystalline]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 02:09 PM
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I am not going to let you fish confidential information out of me, so I will just agree to disagree with you.

F-22 Raptor and SU-37

Although I will admit as far as aircraft go for Russia and the US, we are neck in neck.

I would also like to note that of the Russian ship systems I have seen in person, I was surprised at how they can still operate when they are "Dead in the water" Very impressive.

BTW are you Polish?

-Kdial1



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 02:13 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by kdial1
 

No. I'm a Hungarian. One of our citizens shot down the F-117. I just like to know what he did in Kosovo, because the Hungarians wasn't there at all. Maybe he just lost. Who knows.

Our army and air force is still using the old Russian technology. Few years ago, I sit in and saw the systems of F15, F16 and our old Mig29s. And honestly, I would prefer the trustworthy Mig29. That's a beauty and trustworthy craft. It's maybe using old tech, she is maybe pretty old, but there is no chance to freeze in combat situations due to some software problems. As we always saying, there is no combat situation what this Lady can't survive. And yes. Many pilots may thanks their life to the hard construct of the Mig29.

All the Russian techs are the same. They're strange, old, using mechanical stuffs, instead of computerized ones, but working in every environment, in all conditions. The AK47 and AK74 are the same. They're never jamming due to weather and environmental conditions. Or the T72. One of my friend was a T72 mechanic and he also sworn to everything that the T72s, but especially the T80 are deadly opponents to the M1A2s and companions. And he is right. The T series is using quite different targeting system, which is working quite better in every environment, then the U.S. GPS systems.

By the way, do you serve in the Navy? One of my family members was a sailor. He praised the Russian tech too, while he worked on many other types too. He was a chief engineer. I learned many from him too.

Everything what I written down is not classified at all. These are the well known facts between the people of the former eastern block countries, be it military members or civs. Here, we're not giving great myths to the military techs.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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Yes, I served in the US Navy. However, when I first saw a Russian ship up close and personal was when I was out of the Navy working for a Defense Contractor in Poland. Talking to Polish sailors learning of the Russian technology, I was very impressed.... I was naive to the technology that Russians posessed up until that time.

If this strike on Iran does go down, yes Russia and I am sure China, if not all of the SCO will be involved. It will be a horrible day for humanity when this happens. Lets just pray to whatever god we wroship that this does not happen. For all of Humanities sake.

BTW, F-117's are first generation stealth technology (out-dated and obsolete)....Stealth in the US is far mre advanced now.

-Kdial1

[edit on 1-7-2008 by kdial1]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by kdial1
 

Yes. That's what I wanted to point out with this thread. If it's going to happen, it's going to be a horrible day for everyone. That's why I made this thread, because there are many whose are waiting this war, but don't count with the aftermath of it. Many believe it will be a great and easy victory, but it will be just pain and suffering to the whole of mankind. There will be no winners in this war, just defeated one losers, regardless from the side.

I just wanted to give the proper background for this. Iran is not Iraq. It's not going to be the same at all. Iraq had no real allies. Iran has and great ones, whose are going to protect them, because their oil is also goes into their country.

Stealth technology is maybe advanced, yes. But none of the newer stuffs were in battle before (JSF and F-22 for example.). No one knows how they're going to act against the Iranian defense and that's a great risk for the pilots.

Thanks for the kind words about the Polish people. Poland is the younger sister country of Hungary. The two nations are always held together in everything.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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FOR ONE YOU HAVE LEFT OUT A COPLE OF MINOR IMPORTANT THINGs.

1. The Ukraine made passive Kolchuga detection systems that Iran has. The diffrence from Irak is that Irak had active radar system that where easy to deteck. Iran has passive radars which you cant detect if locked on to.

Its not without reason the pentegon stated that they might have to use ballistic missiles converted to conventional use. To take out the early warning systems that Iran has, even the Nuck sites. If it fails Iran can shot down the B-2 , F-22 and so on if the russuian S300 air defence system is as good as its told to be. together with the Ukraine made passive Kolchuga detection systems.

2. We are not going to invade just bomb. So what can happend after the bobing has ended?

If we bomb Iran we will have a new war going on. Its not going to be over when the bombing has ended. We are going to have 70 000 000 very angry Iranians out there.

The US has a lot of good stuff but its not flawless.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 04:18 PM
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One U.S. Marine would take out a platoon of Iranians, when he runs out of ammo his bayonet will take out some more oohhrrraaa!



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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oh for crying out loud.

this is a testosterone competition if I ever saw one.



I don't believe in going to Iran. Period. There is absolutely no good reason to go in there.

Just another puzzle piece to the oil wars.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
FOR ONE YOU HAVE LEFT OUT A COPLE OF MINOR IMPORTANT THINGs.

1. The Ukraine made passive Kolchuga detection systems that Iran has. The diffrence from Irak is that Irak had active radar system that where easy to deteck. Iran has passive radars which you cant detect if locked on to.



This is not a radar, it is a stationary reciever that detects RF emissions from aircraft. The recievers are set miles apart to triangulate the position.

And yes it has been assumed that this system has been sold to Russia which integraded it into their S-400 SAM and sold it to Iran.

But I would like to add that stealth aircraft operate under RF silence. Thus this system woud be useless.

-Kdial1



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by kdial1
 

The old Russian radars are not really searching for the RF and other emissions. They're simply scanning the airspace in a lower territorial and frequency threshold. Unlike the U.S. systems, it's working on a quite different way. The stealth systems are based on low heat signatures and on the derailing of the radar signatures. But the Russian systems are looking for solid objects, instead of these signatures. And everything what is flying, be it a bird or a stealth craft is detectable by these systems. The stealth design and paintings are pretty visible on these radars, because the lower frequency and territorial scanning is making them visible. You need to search for them in square centimeter or lower range instead of square meter scanning range. Then voila, there is a craft, where nothing was before. The miracle of the Russian technology.

Plus, yes, after the new systems are passive, there is no real way to lock on to them immediately. The only chance to lock on to them if you paint the target from the ground.

And also don't forget that the F-22 and the F-35 are just stealth capable crafts, that are able to work in passive mode. But they're not that stealth as the B-2 or the oldie F-117. These last two are real stealth crafts, but the first two are just stealth-like, stealth-capable crafts, which are not bearing with the same characteristics as the last two. After this radar trick is working with the B2 and the F-117, it's working much better with the F-22 and the F-35.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Dark Crystalline]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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Here is an interview with that Hungarian, who shot down the F-117 in that war. One of expert confirms my data there (It's in the very last sentences.). But it's describing how the whole things are really going on. All the stealth technology is useless against old radar systems.



In an interview this week with the Associated Press, Dani said the F-117 was detected and shot down during a moonless night - just three days into the war - by a Soviet-made SA-3 Goa surface-to-air missile (SAM). "We used a little innovation to update our 1960s-vintage SAMs to detect the Nighthawk," Dani said. He declined to discuss specifics, saying the exact nature of the modification to the warhead's SAM guidance system remains a military secret. It involved "electromagnetic waves," was all that Dani, who now owns a small bakery in this sleepy village just north of Belgrade, would divulge. The Pentagon has confirmed the stealth fighter was shot down by an SA-3 missile in the range of Dani's SAMs. The US military believes a combination of clever tactics, quick learning and luck came together in bringing down the F-117 fighter. But James O'Halloran, editor of Jane's Land-Based Air Defense, said the Serbs were probably able to down the fighter precisely because of their radar system's outmoded technology. "We know he is telling the truth. The F-117 was designed to be stealthy against modern radars. Against old, long-pulse duration radars, its not stealthy," said O'Halloran. "People in the West do not like to say that."


He is saying the same thing about the stealth technology vs. old radar tech, what I learned.


[edit on 1-7-2008 by Dark Crystalline]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:11 PM
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The us don't even have 27000 tanks!What are you thinking????LOL....You numbers are VASTLY exaggerated.Try 2000 tanks and they are most prolly broke down.Iran's army includes 350,000 active-duty soldiers and 220,000 conscripts.Its elite Revolutionary Guards number 120,000,many of them draftees.Its navy and air force total 70,000 men.The armed forces have about 2,000 tanks,300 combat aircraft, three submarines,hundreds of helicopters and at least a dozen Russian-made Scud missile launchers of the type Saddam Hussein used against Israel during the 1991 Gulf War.Iran also has an undetermined number of Shahab missiles that have a range of more than 1,500 miles.Nuff said.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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Sorry, you're right. That was a great typo from my part. They have 1600 Main Battle Tanks and 21000 additional light armored vehicles. That's 27600.
So, update your info collection a bit about Iran. 27600 armored vehicles, including 1600MBTs are a great match for the U.S. Iran has the most powerful and the largest army on the Middle East. They're the small China of that region.

Here is the article that I used as a source for this thread.
www.antiwar.com...

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Dark Crystalline]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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Wow.. seriously. I normally don't care for weaponry, but this thread in the light of the current situation is really interesting.
I don't know which one of you to believe, you both might be more or less half right, and that makes the whole Iran deal one giant powder cake if I may say so.

Imagine if a lot of what both sides are being shown, during conscription / work in the forces, is pure propaganda for the sake of boosting morale :O

If anything does happen, I think it's going to be a masacre over there :S I wouldn't want to be send in.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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Greta post!!

I love hearing details like this. Iran is no slouch. I think that The US can't possibly take on a 3 front war(Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan.) Were spread pretty thin now and, according to some reports, half of the equipment in country is junk!
I took us some time to build up a sizable force for the first Gulf war. At this time, there are some 175,000 troops in Iraq. That's no were near enough.

Another thing is, like you said, is all of the help they'll get for the Russians and the Chinese. BAM!! Another World War.

About the stealth, well that technology was not going to be the cats ass forever. In plain terms, it's old, second generation stuff. Still deadly? You bet, but not invincible.

Again, great post!! Star'd and flagged!







 
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