What About McCain's "War Hero" Status?

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posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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In light of McCain's new-found friendship with his ex-enemy, Bud Day, I was looking for some information on McCain's relationship with veterans when I ran across this story. It seems according to a former Vietnamese Communist Party official, McCain might not be relating his POW experience in a completely honest account.

McCain's Betrayal of the Vietnamese Peasant who Saved His Life



In an extraordinary act of compassion at a time when Vietnamese citizens were being killed by US aerial bombardments, he pulled a barely conscious McCain to the lake surface and, with the help of a neighbour, dragged him towards the shore.
...
In his last years, my husband was very sad sometimes. He would say, 'Mr McCain has forgotten me.'


When US Vietnam vet, Chuck Searcy, received a letter for McCain from the peasant who dragged McCain's body up from the bottom of the lake and saved his life, he delivered it to McCain's office:



I sent the letter to McCain's office and I got back a sniffy response from some assistant saying, 'Mr McCain isn't interested in these fanciful stories.'


The story goes on that McCain has "ignored" these accounts of bravery that have been confirmed by the people who were there and the Vietnam government.

Now, I've heard some stirrings that McCain was treated better then other POWs and some other pretty bad things about McCain and his questionable service, but I've never looked into it myself until now. Does anyone know if any of this is true and have sources that we can read and discuss?

The VietNam Veterans Against McCain seem to have some pretty powerful articles that indicate that McCain doesn't actually care for POWs and MIAs as much as he would like us to believe... In fact, he sounds kind of slimy to me.

The Measure of a Man



Since his return from Hanoi, McCain has …

~Ignored pleas of POW/MIA Family Members for his political influence in the overall POW/MIA Issue as well as with their individual cases

~Verbally abused POW/MIA Family Members in public and private

~Attempted to negatively influence those who testified before the 1992 Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs

~Diminished legislation that gave oversight and protection to the families

~Dismantled protection to any future servicemen that go missing.


There's more, but I'd like to hear what people think about these accusations.




posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 11:29 AM
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who cares, both candidates are globalist whores who will sell this country down the river. all this he said she said stuff. why dont we talk about real issues, like how the stock market is pooping itself right now. but neither one will ever mention such issues of real substance. does no one wonder why?



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


this is all new to me. i will dig into it further. i dont particurlary like mcain although i am republican.

both of my grandfathers were pow's in WWII. both no longer with us. i dont want to speak for pow's although i am a vet myself. but its a tuchy subject. i dont think we could ever know what truely happened to him. and if this letter is even real. i would like to think that he would be doing more for vets but he is a Politician and we all know that every thing but self gratification goes out the window when dealing with politicians.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 11:48 AM
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Well, he didn't earn the nickname "Songbird McCain" for nothing. I also think that the POW experience has a lot to do with the blatant emotional instability we all know so well. However, not in the traditional way being a POW might affect ones emotional well-being. I think it's because he's hiding something, and it's eating at him for all these years.

When groups form for the sole purpose of exposing something like this, it's generally not just out of thin air.

www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com...

www.usvetdsp.com...


A former Vietnam veteran with top secret clearance says he has personally spoken to numerous POW's who dispute John McCain's claim that he refused to provide information after he was captured and tortured in Hanoi, saying that in fact McCain's code-name was "Songbird" because of his willingness to tell all to avoid torture.



That John McCain is clinically nuts is scary enough. What worries a small group of GOP Senators and Congressmen even more is a deep and dark skeletal secret in McCain's glorified past to which they are privy, and which the Clintons will use to blackmail him...

...They have been having discussions with a Russian whom we'll call "T" for Translator. T's father was the Soviet military intelligence officer who ran the "Hanoi Hilton" prison holding captured Americans during the Vietnam War. One of those prisoners was John McCain...

...According to T, they reveal that McCain had made an "accommodation" with his captors, and in exchange, T's father saw that he was provided with an apartment in Hanoi and the services of two prostitutes. Upon returning to his prison cell, he would say he had been held in solitary confinement. That may be why so many of his fellow prisoners said later they saw so little of him at Hoa Loa...

...The notes and reports written in Vietnamese were sent to Moscow, where T was a now a college student, for T's translation into Russian, then placed into GRU archives. That's where they stayed until 1991. Late that year, as the Soviet Union was collapsing, the CIA and the GRU made a deal for a document swap....

...In other words, the CIA has in its possession the notes and reports of John McCain's interrogators at the Hanoi Hilton, in both the original Vietnamese and translated Russian, showing collaboration with his Communist captors....

www.movermike.com...


The thing is, these allegations are not recent. They aren't born of his candidacy for president.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 11:55 AM
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I suspect the truth is a middle ground between the most extreme claims and what McCain himself would tell you.

The GOP used John Kerry's service record to destroy his candidacy in 2004 - The Democrats could do the same thing this year, but so far they've held back.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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I didn't know ANY of this stuff. I haven't looked into McCain. Interesting.


Originally posted by Unit541
The thing is, these allegations are not recent. They aren't born of his candidacy for president.


That is important. Makes me wonder why the Republican party is so eager to put him up for scrutiny. Especially if they know this stuff.


Originally posted by evanmontegarde
The GOP used John Kerry's service record to destroy his candidacy in 2004 - The Democrats could do the same thing this year, but so far they've held back.


I know. That was ugly. I hope the Obama campaign continues to hold back. They can win without dragging out McCain's military service. I hope they do. But, if the Republican machine gets "nasty" enough, as I know they can, I'm not sure what lengths the Obama campaign will go to to win.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by evanmontegarde
The GOP used John Kerry's service record to destroy his candidacy in 2004 - The Democrats could do the same thing this year, but so far they've held back.


I think they'll do it, but from a greater distance than the GOP did it to Kerry from. There'll be plenty of "anonymous sources", and leaked documents to allow the "blogosphere" to do their dirty work for them.

Not that I really consider it "dirty" work, as I think these are valid issues to consider when choosing our next president. This country doesn't need a commander in chief who has exhibited a tendency to crack under pressure. It's not exactly a stress-free position...



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 10:24 AM
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Once again, more evidence that if a person does not like a political candidate, they are willing to believe any sort of ill rumor on the internet, no matter how tenuous the facts are.

But I'm surprised it is coming from you, Benevolent, considering how you attempt to debunk unsubstantiated rumors about Obama in other threads. I'm disappointed. You are doing the exact same thing that was done to Kerry in 2004, and which I can only assume you railed against. But that doesn't matter right? Because McCain has an (R) beside his name, and besides the Republicans did it first.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It seems according to a former Vietnamese Communist Party official, McCain might not be relating his POW experience in a completely honest account.


In the article you cite, the Communist Party official says:


found out he was the son of an American admiral, so the top people wanted to keep him as a live witness so they could use him for negotiations.


This is no secret. It is known this happened. McCain talks about this.


Although McCain was badly wounded, his captors refused to treat his injuries, instead beating and interrogating him to get information. Only when the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a top admiral did they give him medical care and announce his capture. His status as a prisoner of war (POW) made the front pages of The New York Times and The Washington Post.

McCain spent six weeks in the hospital while receiving marginal care. Now having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white, McCain was sent to a different camp on the outskirts of Hanoi in December 1967, into a cell with two other Americans who did not expect him to live a week. In March 1968, McCain was put into solitary confinement, where he would remain for two years.


SOURCE


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
When US Vietnam vet, Chuck Searcy, received a letter for McCain from the peasant who dragged McCain's body up from the bottom of the lake and saved his life, he delivered it to McCain's office:



I sent the letter to McCain's office and I got back a sniffy response from some assistant saying, 'Mr McCain isn't interested in these fanciful stories.'


The story goes on that McCain has "ignored" these accounts of bravery that have been confirmed by the people who were there and the Vietnam government.


Here's what you forgot to mention, from the same article you quoted:


Indeed, claiming to have saved McCain had by then become something of a cottage industry in Hanoi...

...Later in 1995, Searcy met McCain at a veterans' reunion in Washington.

He said: I mentioned the story of Mr On to him, and told him it was true. He said, 'Hell, I would like to meet this guy - I'll set it up.'

McCain, then a senator closely involved in rebuilding US-Vietnam relations, visited Hanoi in 1996, and a meeting was arranged with Searcy and Mr On.


Did McCain not mention the man in his biography? Yes, that did happen.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
The VietNam Veterans Against McCain seem to have some pretty powerful articles that indicate that McCain doesn't actually care for POWs and MIAs as much as he would like us to believe... In fact, he sounds kind of slimy to me.


And PolitiFact has an article about "Vietnam Vets Against McCain" (really just one man) and debunking some of the outrageous claims of Gerald Kiley and Ted Sampley, including that McCain is an agent of the Vietnamese government and a Manchurian candidate.


[edit on 2-7-2008 by SaviorComplex to tone down the rhetoric]

[edit on 2-7-2008 by SaviorComplex]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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Mark my words - if the "whitey" tape exists, it's going to be the bomb that destroys Obama's campaign come October.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by sos37
Mark my words - if the "whitey" tape exists, it's going to be the bomb that destroys Obama's campaign come October.


It doesn't exist. We would have seen it by now.

But this is about McCain, not Obama. Talking about the "Whitey" tape doesn't do anything to debunk rumors about McCain.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by sos37
Mark my words - if the "whitey" tape exists, it's going to be the bomb that destroys Obama's campaign come October.


It doesn't exist. We would have seen it by now.

But this is about McCain, not Obama. Talking about the "Whitey" tape doesn't do anything to debunk rumors about McCain.


My point was that you can talk and disparage McCain all you want, but if the whitey tape exists none of that will matter.

And I disagree that we would have seen it by now. How long did it take Americans to get over the whole Jeremiah Wright scandal? Between 2 weeks to a month? It did some lasting damage but many of the people it outraged have forgotten about it and moved on. Americans have short attention spans. If the whitey tape exists, they won't unveil it until October so it will be fresh on people's minds when they cast their ballots in November.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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I've browsed these sites and watched the video tapes and most of these criticisms of McCain are either out right lies or they are clipped out of context or they are over blown truths, or they represent common human frailty.

McCain's not a god. He's a man and I don't know anyone who supports him who has an inflated view of his abilities.

Some of the comments on those sites are so off the charts that they diminish any rational criticisms of the man.

Personally, I like McCain's temperament.

I think that's exactly what the White House needs.

He and I disagree on a lot of issues and have for a very long time, but regardless of what anyone says, especially pretty boy Wes Clark, McCain possesses the requisite skills for the jobs of Chief Executive and Commander-in-Chief.

[edit on 2008/7/2 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Once again, more evidence that if a person does not like a political candidate, they are willing to believe any sort of ill rumor on the internet, no matter how tenuous the facts are.


I didn't say I believed it. I ASKED for information. I ASKED what people think about the accusations. Don't fall off that horse. It's a long way down.

FYI, I don't care about the letter beside anyone's name, as I have never had a letter by my name and until very recently had decided to vote for a man with an R beside his name. Be careful not to paint everyone with the same brush.

Grady, thank you for your input. It's good to see you here.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by SaviorComplex
 


Dude (or Dudessa), I think you need to back off a bit.

These allegations about McCain are at least as important as any raised about Obama.

BH did not indicate belief in these; this thread raises the question and opens the subject for discussion.

All quotes are sourced, and quoted in accordance to ATS standards.

McCain himself has held out his military and POW experience as making him uniquely qualified to be president. As such, the allegations discussed in this thread deserve inspection.

They may turn out to be completely bogus. They may turn out to have some truth to them. In either case, the questions are valid.

Your claim that BH is being hypocritical is inappropriate.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by Unit541
The thing is, these allegations are not recent. They aren't born of his candidacy for president.


You are right. They are not recent allegations, nor were they born of his candidacy for President. They are born of broken men who were not told what they wanted to hear.

Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I didn't say I believed it. I ASKED for information. I ASKED what people think about the accusations.


Then why repeat the allegations when a simple search can answer these questions or provide ample evidence to debunk the charges?

This is a tactic often used in the media to spread propaganda. They will preface it with "Some people are saying," or "I'm not saying I believe this, but..." This allows them to make a charge while at the same time distancing themselves from it. The seeds are planted.

Would you have asked these questions if they (or something similar) were being asked about Obama?



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by SaviorComplex
This is a tactic often used in the media to spread propaganda. They will preface it with "Some people are saying," or "I'm not saying I believe this, but..." This allows them to make a charge while at the same time distancing themselves from it. The seeds are planted.

Would you have asked these questions if they (or something similar) were being asked about Obama?


Do you mean like this one that was just testing to see if the rumor is true?



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Yes, he thinks that's what I'm doing. If he wants to think that, I am not going to convince him otherwise. And at this point, I'm not at all interested in doing so. He doesn't know me.

This thread is about McCain and his military service.

It is OK to question the man's service. I know it's not politically correct, but oh, well. I've never been accused of being politically correct.


Edited to add:


Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Then why repeat the allegations when a simple search can answer these questions or provide ample evidence to debunk the charges?


This is a discussion board. I wanted to DISCUSS and see what people thought. I wanted input, help.



Would you have asked these questions if they (or something similar) were being asked about Obama?


If no one else had asked them, yes, I would. The only reason I am always defending Obama is that the rumors are OUT THERE. If I ran across a new issue about Obama and it wasn't being talked about here, I would write a thread about it asking if people had heard and what they thought about it. When the whole birth certificate thing emerged, I spent hours playing with it in various graphics programs to see if I could tell one way or another whether it was legit.

Look at my posts here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I support Obama and will vote for him. Don't get me wrong. But I don't live under the assumption that he can do no wrong. I disagree strongly with him on some issues and have spoken about it.

And now I'm done with this freaking inquisition from you. This is not a courtroom. If you want to talk about me, and want a response from me, U2U me.


[edit on 2-7-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Do you mean like this one that was just testing to see if the rumor is true?


Actually, that's exactly what I mean. And I don't agree with that either.





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