Why they hate AMERICA

Why do people, get so defensive when we blame America for the problems facing Iraq and the middle east.

Why?

Its like its completely unknown to them, how we actually got to this position, and the lengths we go to, to DENY the truth.

Lets look at a timeline of Quotes, that GOT us to this point..


Breaking News: 4 hijacked Boeing airliners have crashed on the Eastern seaboard today, 2 striking the Twin Trade Towers, 1 striking the Pentagon and another crashing in a field outside Pennsylvania



George Bush 2001
The focus right now is on Osama bin Laden, no question about it. He's the prime suspect and his organization.


Osama Bin Laden Khilafah.com, 10 Oct 2001
I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity



FBI Director Robert Mueller
In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper - either here in the United States, or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere - that mentioned any aspect of the September 11 plot." - The evidence against Bin Laden, promised by Secretary of State Colin Powell on September 23, 2001, has yet to be made available to the public.


Rex Tomb, FBI spokesman
The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Osama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."



But George DIDN’T CARE



George Bush Oct. 14, 2002
"After September the 11th, we've entered into a new era and a new war. This is a man [Hussein] that we know has had connections with Al Qaeda. This is a man who, in my judgment, would like to use Al Qaeda as a forward army."

Saddam even tried to discuss the accusations

NEW YORK (CNN) -- CBS News reported Monday that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has challenged President Bush to a live international television and radio debate via satellite, saying, "As leaders, why don't we use this opportunity?"
"I am ready ... to conduct a direct dialogue, a debate, with your president," Saddam was quoted as telling news anchor Dan Rather in a three-hour interview. "I will say what I want, and he will say what he wants."
If Bush is "committed to war," Saddam said, this would be his chance to "convince the world."
Asked if he was joking, the Iraqi president said, "This is something proposed in earnest, out of my respect for the people of the United States and my respect for the people of Iraq and the people of the world. I call for this because war is not a joke."

The White House said it was not taking Saddam's debate suggestion seriously.

CIA director George Tenet Sept. 6, 2007 |
Briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam's inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail.



George W. Bush January 28, 2003
Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.

Tyler Drumheller, the former CIA chief of clandestine operations On April 23, 2006
CBS's "60 Minutes" interviewed Tyler Drumheller, the former CIA chief of clandestine operations for Europe, who disclosed that the agency had received documentary intelligence from Naji Sabri, Saddam's foreign minister, that Saddam did not have WMD. "We continued to validate him the whole way through," said Drumheller. "The policy was set. The war in Iraq was coming, and they were looking for intelligence to fit into the policy, to justify the policy."


George Bush February 8, 2003
We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.

George Tenet Sept. 18
Tenet briefed Bush on Sabri. "Tenet told me he briefed the president personally," said one of the former CIA officers. According to Tenet, Bush's response was to call the information "the same old thing." Bush insisted it was simply what Saddam wanted him to think. "The president had no interest in the intelligence," said the CIA officer. The other officer said, "Bush didn't give a # about the intelligence. He had his mind made up."



But we started bombing anyway.




George W. Bush, May 29, 2003 [22]
We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them.


And after the public finally started seeing the truth, well he finally admitted what he knew ALL ALONG


President Bush 2007
Bush admitted that the Iraq war is “straining the psyche of our country.” But he vowed to stay the course. A reporter questioned him about why he opposed withdrawing US troops from Iraq. In his answer, Bush admitted that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and had “nothing” to do with 9/11.

And when we wanted the intelligence/papers/documents/phone calls/emails behind Iraq?

WASHINGTON - The White House refused Wednesday to release in full a previously secret intelligence assessment that depicts a growing terrorist threat and has fuelled the election-season fight over the Iraq war.

By DOUGLAS JEHL
Published: July 14, 2004
The White House and the Central Intelligence Agency have refused to give the Senate Intelligence Committee a one-page summary of pre-war intelligence in Iraq prepared for President Bush that contains few of the qualifiers and none of the dissents spelled out in longer intelligence reviews, according to Congressional officials.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Millions of White House e-mails may be missing, White House spokeswoman Dana Perino acknowledged Friday.
"I wouldn't rule out that there were a potential 5 million e-mails lost," Perino told reporters.
The administration was already facing sharp questions about whether top presidential advisers including Karl Rove improperly used Republican National Committee e-mail that the White House said later disappeared.

A one page summary of the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, which concluded that Iraq possessed chemical and biological weapons, apparently failed to note the dissenting views contained in the full report. Notes taken by Senate staffers who reviewed the report indicate that the summary presented only one point of view, but the White House refuses to release the summary.
According to Richard Durbin, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee:
"We have requested, through the Senate Intelligence Committee, that the White House produce this document and they have refused. I think that's wrong."

So let me get this Straight

We accuse Osama of 911, yet he denies it and says a secret government in the US did it.
]We Say Osama is linked to Iraq, but we don’t prove it
We then accuse Iraq of having WMD’s, ignoring our own intelligence agents.
We refuse to talk to them.
We launch a war on Iraq
We find out that he DIDN’T actually have WMD’s, like we were told.
We admit there wasn’t a link, even though we said there was
Then we refuse to release any intelligence memo’s, phone calls, emails on the subject.. because they are either LOST, DELETED or simply… secret.

Now, keeping all this mind,
Wouldn’t you say there’s got to be another factor behind this

Energy Task Force Meetings Participants
Vice President Cheney's energy task force had a busy spring in 2001. While drafting a national energy policy, the group, chaired by Cheney, met with approximately 300 groups and individuals, ranging from the American Petroleum Institute to Defenders of Wildlife. Below, a list of individuals and organizations who met with the energy task force, as detailed in a document provided to The Post by a former White House official.

www.washingtonpost.com...

Exxon, Mobile, BP, Nucor Oil & Gas, Tidelands Oil Production Company, Vintage Petroleum Inc., CONOCO

these people MET, and discussed the following:



Keeping in mind this was BEFORE September 11.



Tell me,

WHY IS THIS BOY



This GIRL


This FATHER



Meant to embrace us? Being its obvious to at least SOME, the REAL REASONS we invaded, and the lies we inflicted?

After all
What sort of life is it:

If you resist the foreign occupier:



your killed.. no matter what..

If you DON’T resist the foreign occupier


You face them.


So again, tell me, why on earth are we meant to be positive about ANYTHING, the USA is doing in or TOO IRAQ?


This is my CITY



What would I Do if another nation WALKED IN and did this:




Leave this lying around


all for these guys






What would you do?

Any any man/women/child that says they'd greet them with open arms is a liar.


………………………………




Anyone at all who says ONE SINGLE thing, positive about this war, should be ashamed of themselves.

You call your self patriots, I call you traitors.
Because these men:



would spit on you, if they had the chance.





The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over

--Joseph Goebbels, Nazi propagandist

I CANT BELIEVE YOU ALL FELL FOR THE GREAT NAZI METHOD!

Below, is an extract from the Presidents SPEACH after 911, on Iraq.
We've omitted anything that isnt a NAZI method:




…----- --- ------- -- September 11th, 2001, --- ------ -- ---- ---------- ---- -------- ------ --- ----- -- ------- -- --- --- -- ------. ------ --- ---------- -- -----------, --- ----- ---- ---- ---------- ---- -------- -- ------- -- --------- ------ --- ------- --------, --- ---- --- ---------- -- -- ------- ------.



---- ---------- -- ------- - ------- ---- -- Iraq. ----- --- ----- ---- --- ---- ---------- -------- ---- -- ----- -------- --- --- ------ -- --- ----- -----. ---- ------- --- ------ ----- --- ---'-- -------- -------- -- ---- -------. ----- ------ -- ---- ---------- --- ---- ----- -- - ----- ------ -- --------------. --- ------- -- -------- --- ---- ------- -- --- ----- -- -------. --- ---- ------- -- ------.



------ --- ----- ----- --- 9/11 -------, ------- ------- - ------ -- ---. --- --------- ------- ---- -------- -- ---- --- -- ---------- -- ------ --- ------- -----, --- -- ---- -- ---------- -- --- ----- -- ---- ----. - --- ------ -- September 11th -- ---- --- ---- --- -- ------- ------- -- -- -- -- --- -------, -- ----- --- ---------- -------- -- -- ---'- ---- -- ---- ---- ---- -- ----. --- ---- -- ------- ---- --- --- --- ----- -- ------- --- ----- ------ --- -----.



--- --- ------- -- ---- ------ --- -- Iraq. --- ------ --- ------- ------- -- ---- -------. ----'-- -------- -------- -------, --- -- ----- -- ---- -------- -- Iraq ---- al Qaeda. ---- ---- ------- ------- ---- ------- -------; ---- ------ -------- -------- --- ---- ------ -------- ------. ---- ---- -- ----- ---- Iraq'- --------- -- ---- --- --- ---- ------ -- - --------- ---- ----- --- ------- ------- --- -------. -- --- ------ --- -------- ------ ---- ------ -- ------- Iraq-- --- ----- --- - ------ -- -----, --- ---- -- --- --- -------- -- Iraq --- --- ------ -- -------- --------.



-----'- - ------ -- ---------- ----- Iraq, --- ------- ----- ---- - ------- ------. -----'- ---- - ------ ----- al Qaeda- ---- -- Iraq. ---- --- ---- Iraq -- --- ---- -- --- ------- --- -- ------. ---- -------- ---- - --- ---- --- al Qaeda ---------- -- ---- -- Iraq --- ---- -- --- ---- ----- ---- -------- -- -- September 11th, 2001. ---- ----- ---- --- ------------ ------ al Qaeda -- Iraq -- -- Iraq- ----------, ---- --'- ----------- -- Osama bin Laden--- ---- --'- --- ---------- -- --------- -------.



--------- ------ -. ----, ------ -- ----- -------- ------- ------- ------, ------- -- ---- -------- --------- ------- ----- ------- ---------- ------ - ---- -------- -------, ---- --, ----, ------ - ----- -- ---------- --- -- ----------, -.-. ----- ----- ----- -- ---- ------ ---- ----- -- ---- -- Osama bin Laden. --'- ---------- ---- --- "----- ----- --- -- ------ -- Iraq." Osama bin Laden----, "--- --- -- --- --- -- --- -- -- ---. -- -- --- --, -- ----- ---- ------ --- -------- -------." - --- ---- ----- ---- -- - --- ------ -- Iraq --- -- ---- -- --- ------ -- al Qaeda. (--------.)



----- - ---- -------- --- --------- -- ----- --- --- ---- al Qaeda --- al Qaeda -- Iraq --- -------- --------. - ---- ------- --- ---- --- ---- ---- -- --- ---- --------- ------- -- --- --- ---- --- --------- -- --- -------.



- ---- ----- -- ----- -- ---- ---- ----- -----: al Qaeda -- Iraq --- ------- -- - --------- ---------, --- -- Iraq-. --- ---- --- --- ----- -- -------. ------ 9/11, -- --- - --------- ---- -- -----------. -- --- --- --- - ------ -- al Qaeda, --- --- ------------ --------- ------- ---- -- --- ------------ --------- ---- ------ al Qaeda -------, ---- -- --- --- ---- Osama bin Laden--- --- ----- ------, --------.



-- 2001, --------- ------ --------- -------'- ------ -------- ----, --- -- ---- --- ------- --- -- ---- -- Iraq, ----- -- --- -- ---------- ---- --------- ---------- ---- ------ --- ------- -- --------- ------. -- --- -------- --- ----------- --------- ------'- ----, ------- --- ---- -- ------ ------------ --- ----, -----, --- --------- -- --- ---------. -- ----, ------- --- --- --------- ----- -------- ------ al Qaeda, ------- ---------- -- Osama bin Laden, --- -- -------- -- "------ --- ------ -- -----."



---- -----, --- ----- -------- -------- ---- ------- --- --- "------ -- al Qaeda -- Iraq" -- --- ---------- ---------- -- Iraq -- "------ -- --- --- ---- ---." --'- ---- -- ----- ---- al Qaeda -- Iraq -- -------- ---- --- -----'- al Qaeda, ---- --- ------ -- al Qaeda -- Iraq ---- -- ---- -- ---------- -- Osama bin Laden.



--------- -- --- ------------ ---------, --- ----------- ----- ------ ---- al Qaeda -- Iraq -- ----- -- "-------- ----- --------- -------- --- ----------." --- ------ ---- ---- al Qaeda- ------ ---------- -- ----- -- "- -------- -- Iraq -- ------ --- ---------- -------- ... -- ---- -------- ---------- ... --- -- ---- --- ---------- -- --- ----- -- Iraq -- ------- ------ -------- ------- ---------." --- ------ ------- al Qaeda --- --- Iraq- --------- -- -- -------- -- ------- -- --- ---- -- --- --- ------ -------- -- --- ----- -- -- ----- -----.



--------- ------ -. ---- --------- --- ------- -- -------- --------- --- ----- ------ -------, -------- ---- --- ----- -------, -- - -------- -------, ---- --, ----, ------ --- ---------'- ----- -- ---------- --- -- ----------, -.-. ----- ----- ----- -- ---- ------ ------- --- ------ -- -.-. ------ -- ---- ----. -- --- -------- -- ------- --------- -- -- -------- ----- --- ----- --------. --- ---- -- --- al Qaeda ------ ---------- --- ---- --- ------------. -- --- ------------ ---- -------- --- ---- ---- --- -------. --- ------ 9/11, -- ----- ---- ---- al Qaeda -- ----------- ----- -- ------ ------- -------------- ------ -- al Qaeda- ------- --------.



----- --- ----- ---- ---- al Qaeda- Iraq- ---------- ---- ----, Osama bin Laden---- - --------- ------ ----- --- ------- -- Iraq- -- ---- ---. --------- -- --- ------------ ---------, ---- --- --- - ------ ------- -- --- -----, --- ------ -- --- --- --------- -- -----------. --- ------- ----- ---- -- -- Iraq. -- --- --------, --- --- -------- ----------- -- --- -.-. ----- ---- -- ---------- ---. --- ---- ---- --- ----- ------ ------- --- -- --- ---- ------ ---------- -- Iraq ----- --- ---------- -- ------ -- ------- -- al Qaeda- Iraq- ----------.



--------- -- --- ------------ ---------, ---- -- al Qaeda -- Iraq'- ----- ------ ------- --- ---- ------- ----------. ---- ------- - ------ --- -- al Qaeda -- Iraq'- ---- -- -------, - ----- --- -- al Qaeda -- Iraq'- --- --------- --- ----- -------, -- -------- --- ------ -- ----------- -- --- 1990- --- --- --- --- ---- Osama bin Laden, - -------- --- -- ------- ----- - --- ---- -- -------- ------- --------. ---- ----- -- Iraq, -- ------ - ------ al Qaeda ----------- ----- ------ ------, - ------- -------- --- ------ ---- al Qaeda -- -----------, --- --- ---- --------- --- 11-- ---------- ------ ------ --------, --- ----- ------ al Qaeda -------.



- --- ----- ---, -- -------- - ------ al Qaeda -- Iraq ------ ----- ---------. ---, ---- --------- -- -- Iraq-. -- ----, -- --- --- ------- ------- Iraq- -- --- ------------. ----'- ---- -- ----, ----'- ---- -- ---- --: --- ------- ------- -- al Qaeda -- Iraq ---- -- ------------- ------- -- ------- --- ------- ---- al Qaeda -- Iraq -- -- Iraq----- ---------. -- ---- al Qaeda ---- ------- - ---------- ---- ---- ----- ---- -----------. --- ------- --- -- ---- Iraq- -------- ------- ---- ---- --------- --- ------ -- -- Iraq- ------- -- - ---------. --- ---- -- -------, --------- -------- ---- ----------- -- ---- -- -----. -- --------- --- ------------ ---- ---------- --- -- --- --- -------- -- al Qaeda -- Iraq -- ---- --- --- ------- -- --- ---- ------- ------- ---- ---- -- --- ----------- ---------, --- Iraq--.



------- ---------- ---- ------- --- ---- -- --- ------- -------- -- Iraq. --- -------- --------- ---- ------- -- --- -- ------- -- ------- ------- -- Iraq --- ------- --- -- ------------ al Qaeda ----------. --'- ---- ---- ----- ---- -- al Qaeda -- Iraq'- ---- --- ---- -------- --- ---- -- --- ---------- --- Iraq-. --- -- ----- ----------- -- ---- ------ ---- -- -- ------ --- ------ -----: al Qaeda -- Iraq -- - ----- ------- -- ------- ----------, --- ------- -- ------- ----------, --- ----- -- - ------- --------- ------ -- Osama bin Laden. ---- ---- ----'-- al Qaeda. --- Iraq- ------ ---- ---- --- al Qaeda. ------ ------ --- ------ ----- ---- ---- --- al Qaeda. -----'- - ---- ------ ---- --- ------ 'Al Qaeda -- Iraq.' They are Al Qaeda. And they are in Iraq.



--------- ------ -. ---- ------ ---- ------- ---- -------- --------- -- - -------- -------, ---- --, ----, ------ --- ---------'- ----- -- ---------- --- -- ----------, -.-. ----- ----- ----- -- ---- ------ ---- ---- ------ ---- al Qaeda -- Iraq -- - -------- ------------ ------- al Qaeda- ------- ------- ----- ---- ----------- ------- ---- --. ---- -------- ------- - ---- -- -------------. ---- -- --- al Qaeda- ------ --------- ------- -------- --------. al Qaeda --- --- --------- ------------- --- - ----- ------- -- --------- ------ ---- --- ------ -- - ------ -------- --- ------ ----------, --- ---- --------- ------ -- ------------- ---- --- al Qaeda ------ ----------. -- ---- -----, ----- ------ ---- -------- ------ ---- al Qaeda --- ---- ---- -- ------ - "------" -- - ------ -- ------- -- Osama bin Laden. -- ----- -----, ------------- --- --- -------- ------ ---- al Qaeda, --- ----------- ------- ---- al Qa


and thats not even the ENTIRE TEXT!
www.politics.ie...



The world knows whats going on, and how we got here.
Iraqi's know it, even the US government knows it.

How utterly sad, there's so many Americans still unable to grasp the reality of the IRAQ WAR!

It is illegial, just like Poland was in 39, I prey for the day of Normandy... because history shows the world does not tolerate this kind of Corporate war!

That is not an american made grenade. It is a King Arms gas grenade from Scotland.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by ObamaMomma]

sheesh, i see these kind of things and just feel sad and angry. i am tired of being a part of something by birth and citizenship that i don't agree with.

do i think all americans are evil? no, but i think far too many of us our selfish and lazy and in that, we have allowed this to go on.

i can understand why there is this perception that america is evil, but i disagree. those who have been allowed to call the shots are evil, but when you are part of the "family", you have to take responsibiliity for the bad as well.

let's not forget that we have our own that are being led to the slaughter as well and that makes me just as angry, if not more angry at what has been allowed to progress in the name of "security".

This was a grenande primed, prepped and thrown.
Another was accused for it.
A different one died for it
And the throwers profited from it.

All the while people still believe the lie.

And I agree Justamomma,

Americans, 60' something % of you are seeing the light.
thats confidence building.

Unfortunately, there's enough people not willing, wanting or prepared to believe that their government could be responsible for the worst attrocity since Hitler.

...

reply to post by Agit8dChop


The U.S. has military bases in 80+ other countries throughout the world, I think that pretty much covers it on why they hate America. It's not like there's any problems to solve here in our own country. How many other countries have their military bases here?

what i can't understand is that i have grown up around those that are republican. i always thought i would vote republican and in the last election, after listening to the things said in the republican convention, something didn't set well in me.

here i am, my whole life being brainwashed into this way of thinking and yet even i was able to see through all the "security" talk straight into the heart of their agenda.

i took one college course in american government and nothing more, therefore i am not considered "well educated" in these things... but one doesn't have to be to understand that this war is not being fought for our security, nor is it being fought for the freedoms of an oppressed ppl, and it certainly has nothing to do with taking vengence for those who died in 9/11. all one has to do is open their eyes and realize that the comforts they know and the security they know are nothing but illusions being weaved for the agenda of a handful of ppl.

now how does one feel comfortable living in a society so accepting of the selling of our liberty and our good name for nothing.. because that is what illusions are, nothing. you have no security and you have no real comfort in this country or so many wouldn't be on anti depressants.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by justamomma]

I hope my generation can muster the strength to throw these type of people out of office and out on their ass where they belong

Agit8dChop, I have a lot of respect for you and the posts that you author, but I gotta be honest with you man...I'm getting tired of the "why we hate america" posts...it's sounds personal...you should have titled it "Why I hate America" at least the title would then reflect that it's your opinion and it's personal.

I don't agree with everything my govt does, on fact most stuff I completely disagree with decisions that have been made.

but post after post on "Hating America"...it gets old.

why not author a "why they hate Britian", I mean after all, your country has been there with mine every step of the way...

Obama seems to have some fans....

I love your guys' avatars. I'm not sure about Obama, but the support the guy gets is unbelieveable, I've never seen such love for a candidate since Kennedy.

Anyway....

War sis pointless, unless it's for a noble cause. I wouldn't even call it war, then. I'd call it Revolution. War is killing for conflicts of interest.

This is defending morals. The ones to go after are the corporations, all of them.
This is going to be the Big One, because this is a world revolution... you do realize this, don't you? It's not just us. We should start embracing people from all countries and telling them to prepare for an overthrow of the world corporate, governmental, and financial institutions.

This isn't about America anymore. It's about humanity. We're on the brink of destruction by these evil machinations, and it is our patriotic duty as citizens of Earth to protect it.

There will be a New World Order, but it will be on our terms... not theirs...whoever they are.

True enough too,
Sadly, there's just still people out there whom dont get it.

Plus, I do take it personally.
So should you,


After all, what bush is doing in Iraq represents 'the west'

Im part of that, so are you.

as it stands, we're considered the enemy, because of what he's chosen to do.

I take that damn personal!

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Agit8dChop]

Man, lots here.

Did you make sure to include the stuff about Rumsfeld's fake "war analysts" who'd go on every news channel to talk about how positively the war is going to drum up support for continuing/escalating it?

Excellent post!
I couldn't agree more......

I am American.
I AM PATRIOTIC!
I disagree with just about every decision this administration has made.


o, instead of referring this as an "American" invasion....

...call it what it is, ABUSE OF POWER!

You know, I could make a thread with lots of pictures of terrorists holding guns and throwing grenades, and little Iraqi kids crying and dying, and make people feel the same way about my cause too. I could even throw in some pictures of GWB with halos and angels instead of spliced with Hitler.

But that would be biased propaganda wouldn't it?

reply to post by nyk537


The "biased propaganda" campaign has had their say for the last eight years.
Were you sleeping? Or, possibly Iraq fighting your war?

wow. i just feel the need to clarify that from what i have seen, obama will be no better for this country. i am hoping that is not what this thread was about when i lent my voice to it.

i don't hate america, but i do understand why THEY (outside countries) would. i am sad for america and i AM angry at the way most ppl just buy fancy speeches, whether it is from the replican side, democrat side, or any 'side' in between.

quit believing what you are told and what you are shown and start thinking.

reply to post by justamomma



Hi there justamomma Hove do i use the U2U i cant find it


Now on to topick.

Where dose all the hate come from in this case. Well first of all its the media second its pride. Before hand you have already picked a side to stick to. That also makes you loyal. That combined you make a conclusion and a base to stand on.

Its just the same for the other side. Thats why we have two opinions going at it.

We all see whats right and wrong , true and false in diffrent ways. Some people belive what they see and hear with out questioning the facts. We also have ouer diffrent sorces that we trust, and maybe without questoning the facts because a sorce is always right "right"

We humans can be lead to belive in a lot of things if it just comes from the right sorce. Because we are also loyal to the sorce.


We are alos very good at useing the trusted sorces to go against eachother to confuse the publick. Like the Green house debate for one.



[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

reply to post by Agit8dChop


Sooo .. your against the war in Iraq I take it.

I would say one good thing about the war.. yes, even though an Australian will call me an American traitor (for what it's worth..) And that is there is both evidence that the war helped create the current economic problems, and also that it saved us from similar economic problems back in 2001-2003 .. when we where in a recession from the previous stock bubble in 2000-2001..

ok ok, mr. Australian, call me a traitor now!

oh what the hey! .. Just for the sake of getting all the Liberals panties in a bunch I will just toss meh wrench into their little party they got here..

Kurdistan: The Other Iraq

Granted, the US has treated them like garbage, as has the entire World.. apparently though, they are used to it! So much so, that despite international d#k waging and pissing contest that take place all over it's borders .. from Syria, to Turkey, to Iran and Iraq.. how in the World could a people, against the odds... prosper?

And most importantly, who the hell cares? I do. I have made several threads before on Kurdistan, none of which drew attention .. I have no idea why.. for or against Iraq, the progress made by a country within a country is astounding.. it's inspiring, and it shows that with good leadership, culture and national identity and of course the will to persevere, these Human Beings can do anything.

Fun facts about Kurdistan.

Kurdistan is in Northern Iraq, however, the actual Country of Kurdistan is called South Kurdistan. The rest of Kurdistan is currently occupied by Turkey and Iran. Most Kurds live in Turkey
Kurdistan has it's own President. It's own law making body.
Their government actually shows up to work.
They where not put in power by Americans, but rather in spite of Americans.
They have no violence. When was the last time you heard of a road side bomb, a suicide vest explosion, or a military raid? Never. Because it doesn't happen there.
They currently host only 200 American troops.
They armed them selves through stolen oil tapped from pipelines, built an army, and currently do all their own patrols, border checks, reserve forces and so forth.
Kurdistan is currently the resort get away of all other Iraqis.. they welcome Sunni and Shia, so long as they consent to checks at the borders and do not bring weapons into the territory.
Currently one of the fastest Middle Eastern economies. But the only time you ever hear about Kurdistan in the Media is when Turkey attacks them.. but they don't attack South Kurdistan, but rebel Turkish Kurds who cross the border..
It is one of the fastest growing TOURIST locations for Muslims and Westerners alike..

All of which is only possible because of America. Do they have problems of their own? Of course, but in light of their southern neighbors, it's a paradise.

And I could post you pictures of the cities with towering cranes, of new schools and modernizing cities.. of people living in peace without fear, or people grateful to America for the right of self determination ...

But unlike you, I won't use over sensualized pictures out of context for propaganda purposes..

I encourage everyone to research the Kurdish story, may not change your mind on war, but it should be good to know at least some good came of it.

First in depth thread

Part 2

[edit on 7/1/2008 by Rockpuck]