Philsophical Discussion : Freedom of Speech vs Treasonous Actions On ATS...

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posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:39 PM
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Philosophy of War Ethics, let's see what other ATS'ers have to say about their opinion of this fascinating topic.

Philsophical Discussion : Freedom of Speech vs Treasonous Actions On ATS...

Okay, so I was chatting the other day in ATS chat, and someone requested I come talk to them specifically in a lower chatroom on ATS.

I was shocked and disturbed that this unnamed ATS'er related that they suspected that another ATS chatter was in fact possibly an Undercover Government Agent of some kind, because they felt this other unidentified individual was pumping other ATS chatters for information.

I have seen various threads on this topic, but I began this one along the same vain as the previous "Psychology, Philosophy, and Metaphysic Forum" mindset of the ones I have previously done on ATS.

The reason I have not identified either of the previously mentioned ATS'ers is simple.

1) The informed individual who mentioned it wishes to remain anonymous. I'll respect that.

2) Never, ever interfere in a Government/Law Enforcement investigation.

Be nice, polite, and stay out of their way. This gives them no other recourse but to do their job, and go away.

I hope everyone does the right thing, and thinks about the right thing to do here, in that if there's an actual investigation going on, cooperate in any way you feel necessary, and be polite. In the metaphorical sense, and philosophical sense, you should consider this as in essence a question of your own choice to do the right thing over self-preservation, as well as self-empowerment.

Is it right to say the things you say within the bounds of ATS?

Are you practicing Freedom of Speech?

Or are you in fact practicing Treasonous Actions, which you can be tried for War Crimes over?

Philsophical Discussion : Freedom of Speech vs Treasonous Actions On ATS...


[Title edit by SpartanKingLeonidas to better fit the Forum Area]


[edit on 30-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]




posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:51 PM
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We know they are here, we know who they are. The counterintelligence ATS committee is already hard at work triangulating their positions and getting background information for use against them.


Now in all seriousness, its more than obvious that certain members are in fact working directly with the government in order to read, and misguide members in a variety of ways. We have those that spew the government line about nearly every single conspiracy that goes down the board.

As far as observation, no account is needed in order to view any topic on ATS except for RATS.

And of course there are law enforcement officers here on ATS, one of them is a good friend of mine on here. He makes the most killer avatars too.

(dang you for making me edit my post twice!!)


Is it right to say the things you say within the bounds of ATS?


Absolutely...


Are you practicing Freedom of Speech?


I'm not, not practicing freedom of speech



Or are you in fact practicing Treasonous Actions, which you can be tried for War Crimes over?


I guarantee that will be the funniest treason trial in world history!


[edit on 6/30/2008 by whatukno]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:53 PM
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An interesting thought there.


Is it right to say the things you say within the bounds of ATS?


Yes, I believe in the concept and execution of Freedom of speech. Of course within certain limitations such as Yelling Fire in a crowded theater not being a protected example of free speech.


Are you practicing Freedom of Speech?


Whenever possible. I however endeavor to exercise my own form of judgement. (Politeness factors, whether the reply is on topic and of course control of emotional statements.)



Or are you in fact practicing Treasonous Actions, which you can be tried for War Crimes over?


"I stand by my statements that I post in this forum"

(Edited to correct misunderstanding of the gist of this thread) My oops.


[edit on 30-6-2008 by Deson]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:54 PM
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I'm sorry, but I am still confused as to why this is in the new forum. It doesn't really fit the forum purpose at the top of the page. I think the ethics question is a stetch. I think this belongs in the Board Questions or Skunk works Forum. No offense.

[edit on 30/6/2008 by kosmicjack]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by kosmicjack
I'm sorry, but I am still confused as to why this is in the new forum. It doesn't really fit the forum purpose at the top of the page. I think the ethics question is a stetch. I think this belongs in the Board Questions or Skunk works Forum. No offense.

[edit on 30/6/2008 by kosmicjack]


While I respect your opinion, I have to wholeheartedly disagree with you.



This new AboveTopSecret.com forum is for the discussion of a wide range of non-religous topics: Consciousness, Mind, Epistemology, Psychology, Philosophy, Metaphysics, Self-Empowerment, Knowledge and also fringe subjects such as Mind-Control and Psychotronic Manipulation. All in all this will be an \"intellectual & philosophical cafe\" with a focus on everything from mental relaxing and non-religious personal balance, to conspiracies and speculation related to influencing the mind.


It is a philosophical look into whether what we on ATS are doing is the right thing, or the wrong thing, in whether we are in fact practicing Freedom of Speech, or Treason.

Knowledge and speculation is what ATS is all about, another forum description, being Knowledge, as well as Self-Empowerment makes this the perfect forum area to post this in.


[edit on 30-6-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:12 PM
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I just kind of thought that discussions in this Forum were meant to be a bit more elevated than: "ATS postings and chat - Right? Wrong? Discuss."

In answer to your query, IMO, it's free speech - not treason - so by all means enjoy your discussion.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by kosmicjack
I just kind of thought that discussions in this Forum were meant to be a bit more elevated than: "ATS postings and chat - Right? Wrong? Discuss."

In answer to your query, IMO, it's free speech - not treason - so by all means enjoy your discussion.


Thanks for the replies. I edited the title to better fit the nature of this Forum Area.

I can see your point as well as the one I was making too.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:19 PM
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I'm not quite getting you here. Why would dissenting against a government which was founded on the right to dissent be treasonous?

I mean... I get it, that doesn't matter anymore... but is it treasonous to you? Is that what you are saying? Because if you are saying that we should just lay down and shut up because we could be tried for war crimes for speaking out against oppression of the human spirit and the destruction of Earth by corporate parasites.... I say bring the dirty rotten piece of crap pansy ass government tools on! Let's start this thing here and now, you government drones!

I mean... that's just me personally. I've got nothing to lose. Neither do you, in the end.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:24 PM
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reply to post by dunwichwitch
 


An interesting thought on this thread you replied with. I am not stating I believe either at the moment, I am instead asking other ATS'ers to discuss it in light of one specific incident I outlined here. This isn't the first time I've heard it on ATS, but instead the first time I specifically had someone approach Me thinking it was happening.

Do I believe I am practicing treason? Not in the least.

Do I believe I am practicing Freedom of Speech? Yes, I do.

An informed public, is an intelligent public, an intelligent public scares the Government.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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As clearly these days the Constitution is under assault, interpretation depends on who's reading what I'm typing.

By one definition I am a patriot, a freedom fighter, dissident or - by the other - I am an insurgent, enemy combatant, traiter...fill in the blank.

I guess it all depends on how the CorpGov spins it in my military tribunal.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:28 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


So you think what you have to say on this site is interesting enough for govt folks to hear more from you? I am not trying to be mean, just looking at it from a different point of view.

First of all, govts spying on their own people has been going on for thousands of years and it will continue to happen. It just a way of control and it happens, deal with it. You don't exactly have to provide that much information to create an account on this site and start doing keyword searches. They may have one or two people monitor the folks on this site or they may not - I have no idea. Either way, enjoy your freedom of "speech" while it lasts (there is no real freedom if speech anyway, too many morons get easily offended by words).



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:31 PM
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Oh okay.

Well, then yes they could toss you in the gulag or put a bullet in your head for treasonous acts.

Should we be concerned here on ATS? We should be aware, but if we are to be intimidated by these goons, and it becomes more than just posting on a board, and these goons come a knockin', we should lock and load and get ready to defend our families from a treasonous government.

I'm not advocating violence... but this may require more than hippie love.

We can make peace after these miscreants are dealt with. This isn't their reality.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:36 PM
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Well, so far a lot of interesting replies.

Do I think the Government is interested what I have to say here on ATS?

No clue.

Do I care?

Not one bit.

Why?

I stopped caring when the Government got out of control of the people it is supposed to protect, even from the Government itself.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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Hmmmm. I was rather distraught to see a suggestion that any spook who might be here would be "doing his job," as if that is mundane and not a very high likelihood of efforts to spread disinfo, assassinate character, confuse perspectives and otherwise performing a negative function.

But frankly... The likelihood is that their role is to do just those negative things, pooh-poohing truth if it is preferred that it be hidden, making veiled ad hom and otherwise denigrating a truth poster in the event that the truth is something they want hidden, and so on.

The idea that they are honestly tracking an actual threat to the people (and not their Elite evil plans) would be laughable if the whole dam' thing wasn't so serious.

So I say as long as we speak from human heart, and bring all truth as we might have access, we are doing the right thing. And to the nether reaches of a skunk's bowels for any who prowl here with a different agenda.

[edit on 6/30/2008 by Amaterasu]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:47 PM
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Is it right to say the things you say within the bounds of ATS?


~As long as the ATS staffers are fine w/ what I say, I am fine as well~


`
Are you practicing Freedom of Speech?


~Anytime I open my mouth to say something or write something down, I am exercising Freedom of Speech~



Or are you in fact practicing Treasonous Actions, which you can be tried for War Crimes over?


~No, but if someone were, would they say so? And if they did, I wouldn't think that person very smart for saying so... just saying, I would think the answers to this question will either be the same or avoided altogether~



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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Originally posted by jitombe
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


So you think what you have to say on this site is interesting enough for govt folks to hear more from you? I am not trying to be mean, just looking at it from a different point of view.


Yes, absolutely.


First of all, govts spying on their own people has been going on for thousands of years and it will continue to happen. It just a way of control and it happens, deal with it. You don't exactly have to provide that much information to create an account on this site and start doing keyword searches. They may have one or two people monitor the folks on this site or they may not - I have no idea. Either way, enjoy your freedom of "speech" while it lasts (there is no real freedom if speech anyway, too many morons get easily offended by words).


I have identified several, definitely more than a mere "one or two." But you are right. Let it all hang out while we can - and envision their downfall, free energy, robots doing all the work, money gone out of the equation, and everyone doing what they want to do because there is nothing they need to do.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 10:57 PM
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It is good that they are here and watching, because it says that we are on to something and trains us to dissect posts and thoughts to reveal the truth and the core. They are watching but, currently, cannot stop us from sharing our ideas/information.

We will constantly be tested in the future, assuringly to a higher, more persistent degree than even now, so I am glad for the practice to dance around these undercover folks. Welcome to ATS ya'll!



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 11:12 PM
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Here we have a very interesting aspect of topic discussion and where it can lead.In the view of our civilization and where it goes and who is leading it and what is the conduct of a criminal.I would say yes in many ways what we are doing here would be considered in many persons views to be treasonous.

We have to look at it from the viewpoint of what we are doing here and what is our agenda.

One would have to first look at the variables of a treasonous act,and weigh th possibilities of whether ones thoughts are of such. When it comes down to it basically treason is discerned from the act of going against ones government for personal gain or under personal agenda.

When ones views do not coincide within the boundaries of that persons governments.One could be considered treasonous.Alot of this i guess depends on that persons actions or how would you say their level of visual or audible protests against the governing party.

Now going back and flipping this coin,if we have the thought or ideal that a government is starting to become more destructive to their country then constructive,there should be a manner of which the people can stand up and rectify the problem.

So when it comes to many points of discussion about the american and worldly politics on this forum yes one could say there are treasonous acts at hand,but one must also ask on what side of the line are people in question?


[edit on 30-6-2008 by toraylin]

[edit on 30-6-2008 by toraylin]

[edit on 30-6-2008 by toraylin]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by toraylin
 


Toraylin, your reply as well as the other ATS'ers so far, is exactly what I was getting at in posting this thread.

On the one hand, a person sees themself as potentially, or even definately, a freedom fighter.

On the other hand, a Government, any countries Government does not like this, based on either their perceptions combined, or even one particular person within Government's perceptions.



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 01:00 AM
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interesting wiki thread in relation to treason

en.wikipedia.org...

from what i can gather most people dont have to worry too much, however the laws in the US appear to be rather ambiguious and congress seem to be able to make the rules up as they go along.





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