Originally posted by Tapped In
Do you seek to Debunk because you are trying to prove how smart you are or because you are looking for a grander truth in things...
The line is very fine...

This goes for all debunkers for any topic!

This point is very clearly illustrated.

Titor did mention that when going back in time you aren't going back in the same timeline as when you left. Its a slightly different line. Based on the
"Grandfather Paradox" where you wouldn't be able to travel into the past to kill your grandpa, because you wouldn't be made to do so.

With that being said, NOT EVERYTHING will come to fruition. So minor details in Titor's story might not add up today, but in his timeline before he left, what he describes was his past was just past in that timeline.

Also he mentioned that being a different timeline, not everything will be the same. Small things change. I already hear someone saying that civil war in the US would be a big thing, but I would respond as such....

You STILL are missing the big picture. This is what the OP wants to share. THE BIG PICTURE!!!

Open your damn minds people!

Even if the story isn't true, can we not take lessons from what was said?

This is ATS after all!



Nice thread!

Great story, great thread and why should we let little detail like truith get in the way of a good story (e.g. if you close your eyes quite tight but just open enough to see your eyelashes, you may imagine that USA is going through a civil war right now)

When is this time traveller who travels in car being made into a film?

Originally posted by justpassingthrough
...
He has been right on a handful, but his whole "deviation" thing is not believable either. He needs this computer to bring back to his future, but there's no chance he's going back to his original timeline. This makes ZERO sense. So, he gets back to 2036 or whatever and come to find out he doesn't need this computer because his timeline changed enough that they actually figured the problem out. Now what? If he was truly a time traveler, there would be a surefire way to get back to your EXACT future and not some deviation, alternate timeline parallel universe or whatever.
...

That sounds reasonable. Plus, if there is an uncertainty, why don't they send 10 or 20 people into the past to be sure the mission is accomplished. What about getting here and the timeline doesn't have the computer that is needed.

Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by justpassingthrough
...
He has been right on a handful, but his whole "deviation" thing is not believable either. He needs this computer to bring back to his future, but there's no chance he's going back to his original timeline. This makes ZERO sense. So, he gets back to 2036 or whatever and come to find out he doesn't need this computer because his timeline changed enough that they actually figured the problem out. Now what? If he was truly a time traveler, there would be a surefire way to get back to your EXACT future and not some deviation, alternate timeline parallel universe or whatever.
...

That sounds reasonable. Plus, if there is an uncertainty, why don't they send 10 or 20 people into the past to be sure the mission is accomplished. What about getting here and the timeline doesn't have the computer that is needed.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure why people don't mention much about this either. If he isn't guaranteed to get back to his exact timeline or whatever, then they wouldn't send him. Everyone says well, even if the story isn't true, it's about the big picture. Yes, this can be true, but to me there is much better fiction to read than titor, and they make great points as well. Just read 1984, by Orwell. Also, if you are truly searching for the best possible truth scenario, just read and study history like your life depended on it. History will tell you about everything that is going to happen in the future and answer questions. 9/11 was most likely a Pearl Harbor scenario. The US knew about it, at least certain higher ups did, but allowed it to happen to use as an excuse to do whatever they want in this world. After 9/11, anytime any other country tried to go against out decisions, we just played videos of 9/11 all day and it was hard to argue against us too loudly. Titor was just a guy who put together what he could from what he knew. He was probably a decent brain and knew enough about certain scientific things to sound reasonable. He probably also had some insider information about Mad Cow and he thought that Mad Cow would take off and be some type of epidemic or something, but his prediction was wrong. Too many of his predictions have either been wrong or have been too vague to show he is legit. I appreciate his story and it has affected many, but I can't always say he's affected many in a positive way. Probably half and half. Thanks for the post by the way!


JPT

I don't care if the China Olympics happen or not. It won't effect my thinking in any way.

That is precisely why hoaxes such as Titor’s work. He got a few of the things he predicted vaguely right and a whole lot else wrong, you validate what you think he got right yet dismiss every single thing that he got wrong.

His world was supposed to be about 1 to 2 percent different than ours and yet our world is nothing like and no where near what he described. His story is also was too much like the book “Alas, Babylon”. It is apparent to me a clever person with good resources who was a fan of that book created the Titor tale.

It is hard to prove something and even harder to “disprove” something. I can not prove to you that Titor was not real but the evidence suggests he was not. And any conclusive evidence that would have with out a doubt proven Titor to be real has yet to arrive. I’m still waiting for him to e-mail and/or contact people as he said he would when he claimed he’d make another stop, further into the past; also still waiting to see the video supposedly taken when he left our time.

There are only a few things about Titor that still puzzle me, one being faxes I believe sent to a radio show during 1998 (something like that) by someone named John Titor, supposedly these were not noticed or remembered by people involved until Titor appeared years later posting on the internet. It makes me think the station is involved with the hoax or that whoever created Titor spent way too much time on the project. I’m still waiting to see who will make money off this. The published book doesn’t seem to be a huge cash cow; perhaps plans for a movie fell through.


[edit on 1-7-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

Imagine the timelines like this. He travels back to 78 to get that computer... He mentioned he even had to do a few tweaks to it and that may of darn well been because of the 2% divergence. Now fast forward the minimal impact he had there to 1999. when he started posting. From the point he began to post the divergence rate increases.

Now during the time of his postings he said he could not go back to his exact timeline but one so similar that the differences would be nil. I am thinking the return trip to the original time would have a divergence rate of something like .000002% When dealing with odds like that the rational scientist would agree that the other 100 timeslines on both sides of the originating timeline were probably gonna do the same thing. So what happenes is dozens and dozens of timelines trading out titors... Some of the titors that went back talked as ours did... others did not.

Originally posted by titorite
Imagine the timelines like this. He travels back to 78 to get that computer... He mentioned he even had to do a few tweaks to it and that may of darn well been because of the 2% divergence. Now fast forward the minimal impact he had there to 1999. when he started posting. From the point he began to post the divergence rate increases.

Now during the time of his postings he said he could not go back to his exact timeline but one so similar that the differences would be nil. I am thinking the return trip to the original time would have a divergence rate of something like .000002% When dealing with odds like that the rational scientist would agree that the other 100 timeslines on both sides of the originating timeline were probably gonna do the same thing. So what happenes is dozens and dozens of timelines trading out titors... Some of the titors that went back talked as ours did... others did not.

I'm not really sure where you get your .000002% divergence rate. I hear your argument for this, but I don't know stats but I would think that just by him coming in 1999 and saying the things he did, he changed this future immensely, not just some .000002%. Another problem is just his way of saying things vague enough, and pretty much planned that way, that you can't pin anything down. Sure, I could come on and predict one hundred things, but then say, well divergence, etc. can cause some of the things to change. In fact, if you would like, I will predict one hundred things and I bet more of what I say will come true than titor. I can tell you a quick prediction. The 2008 Olympics will happen. I can also tell you that Bush will leave office and there will be no war with Iran just yet. Bush will leave office without incident, aside from some impeachment tries or whatever, but that's about it. Nothing will happen to Bush for any of the things he has lied about. The US economy will begin to rebound late 2009. So here you go as a start.

1) Olympics will happen 2008
2) Bush will leave office with no war on Iran or no tactical strikes on them from the US
3) Bush will leave office without incident
4) The US economy will begin to rebound in late 2009
5) There will be no Civil War in the US by 2015 or even anything that represents a civil war


If you want me to predict things further into the future, no problem, just give me some time to really put together my thoughts. My point about all of this is that Titor has too many contradicting things and some things just don't make sense with him. Perpetuating or starting a hoax to make your point is silly. No one listened to him before when he posted as whatever his real name was, but then when he invented Titor, everyone listened to him. He did accomplish that goal. Anyways, I'm writing this for all, not just to you really, just happen to reply to you. I think there are just too many people in this world who are willing to believe almost anything in the face of logic. Study all the time travel by all the geniuses of all time and all the great philosophers and I think you will begin to see that traveling back in time is impossible. I have studied the subject for many, many years. This is only my opinion, but I still find that even just mathematically, it's impossible to pin down traveling backwards and the forwards shown are slowing down things, not really jumping around in time in the sense most people believe. It's not time traveling, it's basically slowing down the world immediately around you, while the rest of the world carries on at normal speed. This theory is kind of proven as far as going forward. Backward, if even possible would require too much energy even if it were possible.

JPT

Originally posted by titorite
Imagine the timelines like this.

I can imagine the time line all day, it still doesn't explain away Titor's inconsistancies; both having to do with time and things he said himself. Several people have posted the inconsistancies in this thread, regarding health care, war, the economy, science, and politics. More than half of these people have had their post ignored. Why? Because there is no counter argument. Titor is a character who never existed, his tale is a hoax that blatantly takes from the TV series "Sliders" and the book "Alas, Babylon." Nothing more, yet maybe a little less.

The only other explanation is that he was a liar; which makes anything he had to say worthless, because that makes his entire message and intentions unclear.