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Is The Da Vinci Code part of a Plot in Holywood & the Media against Catholicism & the Latin Culture?

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posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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I do not think these people involved in this movie are exactly ethical.
I did not read the Da Vinci Code because it is fiction.
Holy Blood, Holy Grail should have been fiction but the book publishers are pretty liberal about their designations.
I am not sure why you are so worried about this.
There are serious scholars and researchers who can take advantage of this interest, to publish their own books that debunk the movie.




posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 08:54 PM
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Well, your question is interesting and deserves a good answer:

If the story of the Da Vinci code ends only in this point that means probably only just one more low quality literary phenomenon of the Post modernity, more about the samething, but when there is even a so public announcement that we are at the doors of a second part of it, this looks frankly as a plot not only against a very specific regional Culture or even against so important institutitions that, besides all the deffects that they can have in the past or the present, the truth is that they have built the Western Civilization.

Moreover, this is probably a very inteligent way to weaken the Conventional Christianism and open the possibility to enpower secret societies or sects that does not show any better future for our so confused contemporary world. It is clear that Dan Brown is moving the status quo but for what reasons?

The Catholic Church is just only one of the many denominations of Christianity but is, it does not matter is we like it or not, probably the eldest of all the Christian formal religious organizations in the world, of the ones still existing in our days.

The Traditional Church is the mother one of all the others existing in the West hemisphere, Martin Luther was a Catholic priest half of his life, from the Agustine Order, as well as many other fathers of the Protestantism. The first Universities founded in Europe were all Church ones. So we are talking about the vertebral spine of an entire Civilization that also is the one that has pulled the world to the Industrial Revolution and the Technological one.

The scandal of a wrongly assumed falsification of the Shroud does not affect only the prestige of the Latin church but also of the Greek one, since that is a relic stolen by the crusades from Constantinopolis in the XII century, the so called Mandilion. The Orthodox church can not be more tranquil than Rome with this issue, that is something understandable.

So for me it is clear that somebody in someplace could be conspiring against the foundations of the Western Civilization, that is for extension also the Christian one, or at least writing, publishing and filming in aso irresponsible and antiethical way. Both possible actions are really risky to produce an urepairable damage in our society.

Now what we have ahead? it is posted in the web that Dan Brown, not happy with the first strike, is carefully planed the second and for this precise year of 2008 :




The Solomon Key
Author Dan Brown
Country United States
Publication date 2008?[1] (USA)
Pages 309 [2]
ISBN 978-0593054277 [2]
Preceded by The Da Vinci Code

The Solomon Key is the working title of an unreleased novel currently in progress by Dan Brown, author of several novels, most prominently Angels & Demons and The Da Vinci Code. [3] According to current information, The Solomon Key will be the third book involving the fictional Robert Langdon, a Harvard University professor. No release date has been announced.


Pls chk these links:
en.wikipedia.org...
www.thebookseller.com...

Well the possitive thing about this last news is that it looks now we can guess the few possible solutions of the mystery about who or what is behind The Da Vinci Codemania:

- The Freemasonry creating all this chaos to recover his old prestige that is almost finished after to many historic errors comitted in the last century?

- A new genre of secret society that can be wanting to usurpate the place that will be vacant when Mr Brown finally can destroy the Catholicism, the Orthodoxy and now possibly also the Free masonry?

- The empire of the mercadotecnia that wants to replace religion, moral principles, ethics and many other important traditional values with just only pure comsumism?

- This to transform our world in a one in which only some few smart so ambitious business people really think and the rest, thousands of millions only consume their ideas?

- like to have a new humanity of the great majority of the people transformed in to semistupid authomats or just intellectual clons?

- Let me tell that this is not a paranoic perspective, but a very realistic one: America is now affronting a very serious collective mentality & educational problem that, if it is not fixed on time, can weak in a terrible way its possibilities to reamain in one of the leading positions of the world.

- Year by year more & more American universities have the problem to get students that want to study Doctoral programs and even Masters ones in certain dessive areas of the society, like: Physics, Mathematics, Computer Science, Statistics, NanoScience, Electronics, among other Pure Sciences.

- The only solution has been to import those students from the rest of the world. However not all those brains remain in the country after they finish their preparation, many will go back to their original nations and that means vanishing of knowledge, Technology & Science.

- All this matter starts precisely on the so mediocre level of the basic and secondary education in the country at present, but moreover in the lack of motivation of the young American People to do the effort to work seriously in the future of their nation, many people is looking just for the easy life. This is strongly related with the low level of information the people is consuming every day through the media.

In that sense The Da Vinci code probably emerges as a simbol of the decadency of our style of life, and I am affraid that this also means the begining of the fall of our civilization, probably that would be a so pesimistic projection but look to be possible.

It is quite probable that if 1000 years in the future some historian or Archaelogist, of course of the next civilization that will bury ours, if we don't change or invert the current trend, will discover in some escavation in our continent a unit of this curious book, will try to know what were the reasons for which the Great civilization of the mysterious Da Vinci Code book collapsed? Perhaps he will conclude that the reasons were the same that I have pointed here.

thanks for your atention,

your friend,

The Angel of lightness

[edit on 7/9/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 07:38 AM
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Dan Brown is dealing with a history that exists. There have been secret groups throughout the last 2,000 years who have believed that Jesus had a child with Mary Magdalene. The story is about those people more than about the Catholic church. I think it's an interesting history that is relevant to current historical Jesus discussions taking place amongst theologians. It can't be swept under the carpet. Censorship of academic topics is not what our modern era is about. You'll just have to accept it. There's no putting the metaphorical "Gennie" back in its bottle.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 02:48 PM
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I did not do any research on this movie so do not know what the point of it is.
Is it about the shroud?
Personally, I went to Turin, just to get close to it and have my picture taken at the Cathedral of John the Baptist, where it is.
I do not think people are going to stop going to Turin because of this movie.
My guess is that there will be even more.
(if they drop off, just make it easier for me to get in)

[edit on 9-7-2008 by jmdewey60]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 08:27 PM
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I guess I am one of the few that actually read the book and saw the movie! I also read; Holy Blood - Holy Grail. I am open, and found both to be very intriguing.

The first is fiction and the last non-fiction. But both are telling possible truths mixed with storytelling. The advantage to not being religious, but a believer in God and Jesus is; I don't have to make any new insight fit with an orthodox belief system.

I have for years, had an issue with religion, as it is usually all about; creeds, doctrine & literal interpretations of the Bible and how it fits ones religion. In spite of possible new "light" that may come our way.

Being spiritual has the advantage of being open to new thoughts or insight without being threatened! When new insights arrive, it is not threatening to look at ones beliefs and to alter them if one knows that this new insight has the "ring of Truth." I always understood that in the end of days there would be new light or enlightenment. All these doctrines spoken of; are are not new, but are archaic.

I for one, do not want to miss out on new information that could be coming directly from God, and so be "left behind!" ...Another way to view the rapture doctrine!

If you take away from religion; the cross, the trinity, the rapture, immortality of the human soul, and hellfire, what would be left?

Religion is for those scared of hell.
Spirituality is for those who have been there!"
-Anonymous




[edit on 9-7-2008 by MatrixProphet]



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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I guess I got this new movie they are working on, with the Da Vinci Code.
So what is the connection with the shroud?
Is that the next movie?
If it is, that would be despicable to run that down, seeing as it is a real object that people venerate, and not some hypothetical thing.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 





Censorship of academic topics is not what our modern era is about. You'll just have to accept it. There's no putting the metaphorical "Gennie" back in its bottle.


Well dear Matrix1111

Censorship could be probable not the correct solution but there is also something that is characteristic of our era: civil responsability.

In other epochs of the History somebody could invent any type of calumny against the good name and reputation of other person without being judged and condenmed for such a crime, but in modern democracies ,subject to the rule of Law, that must be severly punished, and to be sincere there is no more grave and coward calumny than the one committed to a dead person.

The liberty of expression must be subject of civil responsibility, a good citizen know very well what are his rights but also what are its duties. The liberty and rights of expression of a person ends when the ones of other citizen begins.

To use the genre of fiction to try to commit calumny only to be able to laterly evade the legal consequences is several times more criminal and cynical. From my personal point of view that could be the dimension of the fault of acts like the so irrespectful Novels of Dan Brown if this would be judged by a Court.

thanks for your atention,

The Angel of Lightness

[edit on 7/10/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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If you're talking about the Hollywood conspiracy re Catholic church, you missed out one of my favorite movies, Stigmata, where the major part of the plot refers to how the catholic church tries to suppress the original gospel of christ, and his instructions for the church after he was gone..



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:24 PM
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Well, dear Reader,

You have touched with your finger the sore, Stigmata is not less guilty than The Davinci Code.

That is the thing that happen in a society when there is somebody that can go ahead, without legal problems, writing or showing what ever he wants against who ever he also wants.

Be sure that if somebody could commit calumny it is quite probable that laterly others will try to do the same and even worst.

It is time that in America the Laws and judges reprime effectively the excesses of "Creativity" that some producers, writers and directors eventually have just only to make money using antiethical strategies.

Moreover, it is time that the civil and social responsibilty become valid criteria to determine if a production for movie or TV or radio or any other type of massive communication media is going bejond the acceptable limits of free expression and if that is the case to be prosecuted and punished.

The respect to the good name, reputation and the credibility of citizens and their legal associations must be matter of civil responsibility. It is not fair and acceptable that somebody could publically speculate about this in a way in which can damage them.

The media must be instrument of information and not of disinformation and mediatic wars between political or religious factions, that of course weaken the necessary cohesion of the society.

America is by definition a multicultural, multiethnical and multireligious nation under a secular goverment in which no body can insult the beliefs of other citizens.

Hence, in Democracy any church or denomination has the right to promote their activities and cult but without damaging the credibility or good name of the other denominations of the Society, specially when that action is commited with mere speculative and not well proven facts.

The Davinci Code, the novel and the film, among other productions or books in the same line could be a so grave precendent of impunity concerning violation of the cults diversity & integrity of the legal stablished churches, and therefore must cause civil responsibility for their authors in the use of the free expression.

Now a novel by definition is fiction but in that case everything must be fiction, you can not write imaginary situations of real historical figures that can involve them in illegal or criminal actions and pretend that this is not a calumny.

let me illustrate my point with an hypothetical situation, just like an example:

It Is so different lets say to accept that Mark Twain wrote that:

The Prince of Wales Edward Tudor changed his clothes with the pauper Tom Canty, as part of an innocent chidren's game just for fun and curiousity,

than,

Assume some other novelist would want to do a "creative & liberally of free expression's" little twist to the story, writing that Prince Edward put poison in the cup of his own father The king Henry VIII to kill him, then changed his place with a pauper to make guilty an innocent of his fault and therefore accelerate his rise to the British Throne.


The first way is the licit and professional work of an Author the second is a terrible lack of ethics that a trully Novelist never dare to commit. This is more or less the level of the dared fictions of Dan Brown using the name of a historical institution and state, the Catholic church and the Vatican city, in Angels & Demons his first novel and now again using the name of Leonardo Davinci and the Opus dei in the Davinci Code.

In Angels & Demons there is a Cardinal Camerlengo poisining a Pope to avoid that he have a son thorugh artifitial insemination. In Da vinci code Leonardo Davinci is involved in a Plot of the Opus dei, with at least one murder, to hide the "truth" that Jesus Christ was not actually the son of God and had a daugter with Mary Magdalene.


I hope that there are atorneys, judges and legislators reading these lines to take conscience about what I am talking about. Also I hope to don't be the only person that see clearly this point, but if that is the case I would prefer to be the Moral concious of this society than to remain silent with respect to this situation.

Sincerely I believe to be correct when I think that there are enough elements that would allow Vatican city, the Catholic Church, the opus Dei and even the goverment of Italy to demand successfully, on American courts, Dan Brown, as well as Ron Howard, Brian Grazer, John Calley and Columbia Pictures with criminal charges for this type of discrediting fiction.

Thanks for your commentary,

The Angel of lightness




[edit on 7/10/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by The angel of light

To use the genre of fiction to try to commit calumny only to be able to laterly evade the legal consequences is several times more criminal and cynical. From my personal point of view that is the dimension of the fault of acts like the so irrespectful Novels of Dan Brown.


It's hard to take your complaint seriously. I think you're being hypocritical, considering the history of the popes and councils efforts to condemn people for what they considered heresy simply to eliminate the opposition and monopolize disbelievers. How many people had to go underground in their beliefs because of it?

Is it really hard to believe Leonardo da Vinci wasn't forced to do the same? Consider his anatomical drawings? Dissecting the human body was against church doctrine. Yet he did so in secret. Yet, somehow the Catholic Church claims da Vinci was a good Catholic? Why do you think he wrote backwards? It was to hide his heretical research. How many other scientists had to do the same.

Yes, people have civic rights. They also have inalienable rights and should be allowed to exercise their free will in pursuti of knowledge without fearing for their lives. The way I see it Dan Brown gives voice to people who have been silenced throughout the ages by the Catholic Church. Now they are being heard. And you're offended? Sorry, I find such hypocrisy to be offensive -- and an insult to the intelligence of modern-day minds. And your attempts to play the "race card" (Latin culture?) is very contrived and unjust. But then again, on theological grounds, that exactly defines the history of the Catholic Church: contrived and unjust. So what more can people expect from Catholic apologists?



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by Matrix1111
 


I am so sorry that your own personal beliefs or convictions drive us to don't see clearly that the Catholic Church is, like many other denominations in this country, a legaly stablished religious faith or Cult, and in that condition it has also rights to defend their good name in the American legal system.

I think it is a so big mistake to don't realize that we are not still living in the time of the jungle of religious wars between principalities of different official faith of the XVI century in Europe, but in other continent, epoch and poltical regime.

If you or any citizen of this nation decides to live with his mind focused in other time and geographical or historical circumstances is your decission and right, of course you must do that. However if part of those astral trips to the past become in religious hate proselitism or verbal or physical violence against other cult, that constitutes violation of the rights of other citizens that have other beliefs and their own cult.

According with the Constitution, and supported also for the civil and penal federal Laws, none legal Cult can be prosecuted or harrassed in any form without being that action a severe crime against civil rights of the members of that church or denomination.

Catholicism is a legal faith in America since the time that the state of Maryland was one of the 13 colonies that rebeled against the king of England, also since the moment in which it entered in the Union, on 1776, and their representatives in the continental Congress signed the original Constitution of the United States.

No later amendment of the Constitution or any other legal act of any American court has declared Catholicism as a non legal faith, or his leaders as the Cardinals or the Pope criminals in any way.

America has a so long tradition of rule of Law, in our legal system no body can be considered guilty before the justice prove that, there is the inocense presumption. So the Catholic Church is inocent of any charge of conspiracy to hide supposed "truths" about JesusChrist or Leonardo Da Vinci since there is no legal sentence condemning it.

Besides that in January 10th, 1984 the President of the United States, a citizen of Protestant faith, Mr Ronald Reagan officialy established diplomatic relationships with the Vatican city State as a friend country of America. President George W. Bush renewed that good diplomatic relationship in the official visit of Pope Benedict XVI this year.

I insist that Dan Brown among other authors,film producers and film companies would not be respecting the legal status of the Catholicism in this country when they published or release those type of sensasionalist fictions based on supposed criminal plots in the Church and linking Da Vinci, Cardinals, the Opus dei members in any way with them.

My point is based on the principle of rule of law that must be respected for any citizen, religion, cult, belief or church without distinctions, so is entirely legal and does not have anything to do with religious preferences.

Thanks any way for your opinion,

The Angel of Lightness




[edit on 7/11/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by The angel of light
 


Do you feel that God has the ability to stop this?

Then why isn't he?

Or do you believe that he is an underachiever that needs pathetic mankind to do his work?

Isn't there a strong possibility that things are going exactly as God wills it, and you are fighting his will?

Is it possible that you love and worship your religion while God is denouncing it?...Along with all other religions?

We have a saying in my family when it comes to understanding God, "Read the mail!"



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 03:47 PM
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reply to post by MatrixProphet
 


God has all the power in his hands to destroy our entire universe, if he would want it, in just seconds. All the energy that remains in the entire nuclear arsenal of all the nations is nothing in comparision with that power, even the energy our sun is just like a grain of sand in comparision with his power.

However God has decided since the begining, when he created the man, in his image and similarity, that he was going to give him complete liberty of decission. That personal liberty is the one that allow us to take the good path or the bad in life, we are the only ones involved in that decission, therefore we cannot laterly say that God is the responsible of our problems.

What means that decission: that our mind is like a coin with two sides that we are constantly throwing to the air, when that coin fall with the possitive side turned on is when we are thinking constructively, so everthing that we do get sucess and we are in extraordinay good health, but when it falls with the negative side turned on is when we are using all our personal psychic power for evil, for selfdestruction and failure.

Every human being, as was made by God in his image and similarity is like little god that can determine a lot of things in its own lide, that is the esoteric mystery behind the words of Christ when he said that if we believe in him we become also sons of God. How a person can be a son of God without being part of its divine nature?

Hence any person has psychic power, more than he imagine to go ahead in life if he decide to use it in the constructive way, to create but not to destroy. When somebody use that power in a negative way it could cause damage to others but finally the worst damage is the one that will come back to him.

That is a so important rule of esoterism, we receive the same that we release to the Universe, the similar attract the similar.

I suggest sincerely to people like Dan Brown or Ron Howard, Brian Grazer and John Calley to rectify their actions, now that it looks the are still on time to do that, since with God can play a lot, without finally receive the consequences. That is another so important mystic principle that is the Compensation Law, anything that is done in this world & deserves a punishment, is giving also in this world. .

The human laws can prosecute, penalize and put a person in a Jail, and in the worst of the cases to execute it. But the Divine Law can do something worst, there are things in life that are even worst than the death, so pay atention to that point since we receive the same that we give to the universe.

I found to much negative energy in the Novels of people like Dan Brownt that are using their literary talent to destroy but not to create. When a person like him decide to damage the reputation of people or human organizations that nothing bad did against him there is a bad curse comming in the future to them.

If that is not the case how could you explain that one of the most famous stars of Hollywood, Christopher Reeve, that became a legend in the role of Superman. Reeve filmed I think 5 movies with that personage, being a so succesful Actor, but finally he became a paraplegic as a consequence of a terrible accident suffered riding a horse. The ironies of his bad luck is that this happend precisely after he acted in role of a corrupt cardinal, that had a nun as a lover, and was reparing the Vatican finances dealing with the Maffia? and if that was nothing he also crytizise publically severl times the appearantly extraordinary good relationship of Ronald Reagan with the Pope?




Another nice example of what I am talking about is the tragedy of the Titanic, the supposely undestructively ship, the most modern and biggest transatlantic of his time.

In 1911, Shipbuilder magazine published an article on the White Star Line's sister ships Titanic and Olympic. The article described the construction of the ship and concluded that Titanic was practically unsinkable.

When it was launched to the Ocean one of the functionaries of the White star company, legal owner of the ship, said it was so unsinkable that neither God himself could not sink it. What an Irony of the fate that Titanic only could do that first trip that never ended succesfully but in one of the worst tragedies of the History of navigation The 12th of April of 1912.

On June 1, 1911, the Irish News and Belfast Morning News contained a report on the launching of Titanic's hull. The article described the system of watertight compartments and electronic watertight doors and concluded that Titanic was practically unsinkable.

Yet, when the New York office of the White Star Line was informed that Titanic was in trouble, White Star Line Vice President P.A.S. Franklin announced " We place absolute confidence in the Titanic. We believe the boat is unsinkable." By the time Franklin spoke those words Titanic was at the bottom of the ocean.

The bad curse caused for such beliefs that defied the power of God, was so strong that even 13 years before a novelist Morgan Robertson's previewed the fact when he wrote the Novel Futility about a so similar topic, the sink of the Trasatlantic Titan.

There are things in life that were not made to play and one of that is the God's businesses. The Church could have a lot of scandals in its History but anyway it was founded by Christ and look what he said about people that try to destroy it:




Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ. (Matthew 16:17-20)



Thanks for your atention,

The Angel of lightness





[edit on 7/11/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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I don't pretend to follow everything on this thread, but the measure of the Catholic Church is its saints in my opinion. I view all religions this way. Look to the saints that are produced and the good that is done. (If one doesn't find any good or any saints, then there's a pretty good indication of what sort of religion it is.)

With regard to the many faces of Freemasonry, at least in the Mexican context, the execution of the priest Miguel Pro revealed the true face of Freemasonry in Mexico. Whatever Freemasonry in Mexico may be it has only been productive of murders, executions, ... While this may not be true elsewhere, I do not know, but in Mexico, the Freemasons behaved as devils and are still a diabolical group linked into the NWO monsters.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by The angel of light
 


And of course my theory about Armageddon would answer your whole post: we have been in Armageddon for more than a century. The Great Tribulation is the action behind this war and both are happening simultaneously. That is why we have been experiencing it for more than a century and explains all that has been happening on the earth.

God is allowing all religion to go down as is evidenced in the world today. To fight him is ludicrous. We were allowed the opportunity to run things for thousands of years and now the time is up.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by Pellevoisin
 


Well Dear Pellevoisin,

Actually you are quite right, it is so difficult to defend the appearantly good will of Freemansonry in the case of Mexico. I said appearantly since they were until so few years people with immense power in that country, they were the power behind the so corrupt Dictatorship of PRI.

PRI was a creation of the Freemasonry since the begining, they used during 71 years the State to publish their activities, also they washed the brains of many generations of Mexicans about the supposely good intentions that they always had.

Freemansory is the reponsible of the cult to the personality of Benito Juarez, a personage that was literaly rised to the Patriotic altar for causes that are in many aspects just Myths.

As I stated in one of my previous posts there are many things that Juarez, a well known Great Master of the Freemansory, he was mason grade 33, that many Mexican are just starting to realize:

- He was never elected President of Mexico, he just took the Power suported by his friends, all freemasons, in other words he was the one that patented the so called rule of the "Cuates" to use a so typical mexican expression to say agreement to act illegaly.

- Interim President Comomfort called for free elections to give a New goverment to Mexico in 1858 but Juarez didnt wait for them and usurpated the Presidence of the Republic.

- He divided terribly Mexico with the civil war he started, The Reforma, causing additionaly a huge external debt for the Public sector, just to finance war between Mexicans.

- He ordered the arbitrary confiscation of all the goods of the Catholic Church supposely based on the Principle of the better use of those resources for social causes by the State.

- He didn't impulse social changes that really improved the life of millions of poors in Mexico, but when he was a child he got free education thanks to the Jesuits in Oaxaca, so he was educated by the church.

- He started another civil war against the Conservator President Miguel Miramon, that probably had more right than him to perform the Presidency. When Miramon resignated to his job in favor of the elected, by referendum, Emperor Maximiliam, Juarez focus the war against him until he, with the help of the American freemansonry won the internal conflict, killed Maximiliam, also Miramon and if that was nothing killed too Gral Tomas Mejia.

- Juarez was in many aspects a dictator but also a traitor the his own nation since to assure the resources to fight against his enemies, he signed the Protocols of Bucarelli denounced by President Porfirio Diaz, a national hero, as one of most antipatriotic agreements with USA.

- As I also explained in one of my previous replies, Juarez became again so popular thanks to the regime started by Plutarco Elias Calles that was the most fierce enemy of the Catholicism in Mexico, he was the one that gave the order to assesinate the father Agustin Pro among thousands of other christians just only to create fear in the Church.

I think it is so possible that people like Dan Brown must be financed directly or indirectly by the freemansonry, his way to discredit the Church is typical of the very well known anticlerical rethoric of the masons.

I think it is important the American People know about all this things, that happend in the near Country just to know that those secret organizations are dangerous and deserve to be drastically monitored and controled by the state in any democracy.

In the Presidential Election of 2006 in Mexico we watched how antidemocratic can be the freemasonry, since Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador was trying to usurpate the power even when all the several recountings of the votes showed clearly that he actually didnt win.

Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, a very well known Juarist, followed the example of his heroe to try to start a parallel subversive goverment, Presided by him, to bring Mexico to a political Chaos. He used for that purpose the same flag and coat of Arms of Benito Juarez.

Obrador started a so dirty campaign in the media discrediting not only President Calderon but also his predecessor President Fox and his colaborators and telling that all them were the New Maximiliam of Mexico and his court.

Maximiliam of Habsburg, legally elected Kaiser of Mexico, was not born in there but in Austria however he was not a bad man and he actually believed that he was doing the best for Mexico in his job. As I also told in one of my replies he was the only Governor of the country that dared to decrete three basic democratics laws that still exist in Mexico.

The Civil war between Juarez & Maximiliam ended in Queretaro 1867 when the Emperor offered his capitulation to stop the conflict, the forces of Juarez accepted it with the promise to respect his life and the one of his Generals and all other officers. After a Judge complety arranged and being Maximiliam terrible ill to defend his rights he was condemned arbitrarly and executed.

Although non other Habsburg supervived in our days, the History register that other members of that family like Felipe II and Charles V of Spain were really nice Emperors and gave many important laws to the Americas protecting the Indians and trying to create a Christian society in this side of the ocean.

here are the portraits of Juarez and Maximiliam:
Notice that the so called "Saviour of the Republic" even used the Throne of Maximiliam after his death. The anagram of the emperor is in the cushion of the chair.






thanks for your comments,

your friend,

The Angel of lightness





[edit on 7/13/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 07:51 AM
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If the "good name" of the church is so weak as to be successfully slandered by works of fiction, then it clearly deserves everything that can be said about it.

If it's not true, after all, if the Church is good, and strong, and faithful to both god and the people that it ministers, it should be nigh unassailable, especially by fiction.

If there is truth in the fiction, then that's the only time that fiction can hurt it.

E.g.. it's common and popular these days to bash Bush. Doesn't matter what you say about him really, because most people will believe the worst of him in any given situation and on any occasion. If you replace Bush with a more loved character, say, Mother Teresa, anything negative I could say about her, most people would just simply not believe.

The power of fiction to corrupt minds, must therefore lie in the truth it contains, not the fictions.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by Inannamute
 



The power of fiction to corrupt minds, must therefore lie in the truth it contains, not the fictions.[/quote]

Very good, I starred you! The truth can be this simple sometimes.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by Inannamute
 




If there is truth in the fiction, then that's the only time that fiction can hurt it.


Goebbels, the Propaganda manager of Adolph Hitler once said in the 1920's when the Third Reich was still triying to climb the slope to the power in Germany:


Joseph Goebbels:
If a lie is repeated thousand times, it doesn't mater how false could be, finally it will become in a truth.




In 1926 Goebbels himself wrote two books in which he discovered his great talent to be propagandist :The Second Revolution and Lenin or Hitler. His propaganda techniques were totally cynical: "That propaganda is good which leads to success, and that is bad which fails to achieve the desired result," he wrote. "It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success."

He openly acknowledged that he was exploiting the lowest instincts of the German people — racism, xenophobia, class envy and insecurity.

So your claim that only the truth behind the fiction hurts is a very big error, that is something that any expert in publishing knows very well, the poser of sugestion, by the way also very well known by psicologists and hypnologists.

It is also known by those disciplines that reading is one of the moments in which the subconsious mind of the reader is more succeptible to be influenced, that is the reason for which many political leaders that wants to produce revolutions use a book to start his fight, you can find that in Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler, in the red book of Mao tse tung, in Das Kapital and the Manifest of the Comunist party of Marx, in To the poor of the country by Lenin, The philosophical thesis of Trotsky, all of them were masters on rethoric and they knew very well what were they doing.

The method is really not new, it was used for many leaders in the History that wants to capture the atention of thousands of followers to force a subversive action against the institutions. It is curious but Hitler was influenced by Martin Luther's On the Jews and their Lies.

In Mein Kampf, Hitler refers to Martin Luther as a great warrior, a true statesmen, and a great reformer, alongside Wagner and Frederick the Great

The principal problem with the literature of Dan Brown is based 50% on mere speculations and absurd fictions and 50% in half truths that are presented to the reader in the way in which more damage can cause to the part that is attacked with them. His attacks to the Church and Leonardo Davinci are repeated again and again and again until the Mind of the reader is wall satured with those ideas and the Brain wash is complete.

Of course Dan Brown assume that 90% of his readers at least are completly or almost completly ignorants about the topics he was writing, so this is a problem with two sides: the antiethical attitude of this Author and the so low level of deep knowledge in the majority of the public thanks to the so empty, materialistic, superficial and vanity culture of the 2000's around the world, specially among the young people, promoted by the economical Globalism based primarly in consumism and not in creativity.

Anyway thanks for your participation in the thread,

The Angel of lightness





[edit on 7/13/2008 by The angel of light]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 10:15 AM
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A picture is worth a thousand words...

www.alamoministries.com...



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