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socialism??

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posted on Jan, 4 2003 @ 08:45 PM
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ok if i'm not mistaken communism is socialism to an extreme but don't socialists believe in small militaries and peace not war? so why do communist countries have big militaries???




posted on Jan, 4 2003 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by f16falcon
ok if i'm not mistaken communism is socialism to an extreme

socialism is only a transitional gov't from capitalism to communism.
communism is a more democratic form of socialism.
if you limit the people to only a socialist gov't, they will never experience true liberation. the systems must evolve continuously... this is why it's called 'the permanent revolution'

Originally posted by f16falcon
but don't socialists believe in small militaries and peace not war?

they absolutely do.
but they have to protect themselves from the 'interests' of the capitalists.
and socialism/communism works when it's globalized, so when the capitalists are completely removed, then they can properly apply their beliefs... such as 'make love, not war'... hehe

not all socialists are communists... but all communists are socialists.

read more about socialism's relations with communism at...
www.newyouth.com...
and a FAQ on communism...
www.newyouth.com...

it's good to see people taking more interest in these issues.




posted on Jan, 5 2003 @ 12:29 AM
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That's a load of crap echelon, about the militaries, it's not "have to protect from capitalism" it's "have to protect from themselves". Large standing armies are NEVER deterrants from war everyone knows this, communist nations have always had HUGE standing armies, because what do huge standing armies deter? That's right....revolutions!

Every communist nation on this earth was founded by a revolution (because no one would willingly accept it) and to keep communism alive in their nations, they practice this "revolution worship". Much like America still calls its war a "revolution" rather than a war for independance.

Communist nations always refer to their nation as a REVOLUTION, and their parties are always PARTIES OF THE REVOLUTION!

Well all that talk about revolution, would make the young impressionable youths think, well if revolution for communism was good for our grandfathers, it'd be good for us to revolt against our leaders, and form an even more perfect utopia!

So hence the rise of secret police, and MASSIVE militaries.

No nation of liberty has ever had a large standing Army, America is about as big as they come, and they have only about 1 million Army personel (give half a million or so depending on totals of Gaurd/reserve) and about 300,000 in the navy, another 100,000 in Marines and about same for AF totaling to say about 1.5 - 2.5 million TOTAL military personel, of which very few are actually combat troops.

Russia still has about 2 million men, of which most are infantry. During the Soviet era that number (including reserves) was more around 5 million, this number was not so much to protect themselves from us (they had nukes for that who needs armies now? Hence all the special ops and counter terrorism) but to prevent constant revolts, which did break out often, look at Hungary.

Communism is "Equality by force". Which is not acceptable to the human spirit.

I've always associated communism to be much like communities back 5000 years ago, say in the alps, where everyone had to help eachother to survive, but that's not the case, they did that of their own free will.

Communism is taking people whom don't even know the other exists, taking all they have, and then redistributing less than half of it back amongst everyone equally, and using the rest of the half, to try and prop up your feeble economy, it just doesn't work.

I've already calculated why there will NEVER be a one world government. The only thing that stimulates economies, is trade, and you can not trade with yourself the logic behind it just doesn't exist, you can't tax something you are sending from one part of your nation to another part of your nation, because it does not bring in NEW money, this is the problem with communism, they couldn't bring in new money, they stagnated, like a pond left with no creek or rain.

While Capitalist nations work, because capitalism is TRADE, and they trade amongst eachother, bringing in new money from the other.

You know say all you'd like echelon, but the Soviet Union WAS communism.

I keep telling people, do not confuse ideology with politics, the Soviet Union was Communism, but an oligarchy, if America were to ever some how become communist, and still manage to remain democratic, the people of america would soon vote AGAINST communism, as soon as they run out of toilet paper.

People who have a huge army looming over them don't mind pulling their pants up without whiping their a$s, but free peoples like us do mind and won't allow such "crap" (no pun intended
)

Sincerely,
no signature



posted on Jan, 5 2003 @ 12:39 AM
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And once communism rules the world man kind will be enslaved, read 1984, great example.

Do you think the men at the top care about the fools below? Nay, when a government is allowed to have as much power as communism allows it, then it becomes a dangerous government.

Communism was never meant for nation states or even city states, it was meant for primative man.

Sincerely,
no signature



posted on Jan, 6 2003 @ 12:16 PM
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Well put, Freemason....



posted on Jan, 13 2003 @ 12:41 PM
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No answer from echelon. Does it mean that he's agree with FM ?



posted on Jan, 13 2003 @ 09:02 PM
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thx ppl good explainations



posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 12:43 PM
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people that think that communism is so great, i just don't understand how they can be that ignorant. sure communism is a great idea, if it worked all the worlds problems would be solved, if everyone on this planet could be satisfied with mediocrity. communism doesn't work look at the former soviet union, if it was so great why did it collapse? because the idea is good, but the application of it sucks. just my $0.02.



posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 01:03 PM
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That's nice to see how many anti-communism/socialism peoples we have on this site.


B

posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
That's nice to see how many anti-communism/socialism peoples we have on this site.







Originally posted by FreeMason
but free peoples like us do mind and won't allow such "crap" (no pun intended
)


ROFL (no pun intended :p)

I'm a European before you guys start asking and I do wonder, cause here in my Country you have a lot of parties all with different believes, why you guys are so sceptical against socialism???

I mean here we have health insurances and stuff like that! If you're unemployed you'll get a "life loan" just enough to make a living. I mean Socialism is a good thing! We have to help each other!

[Edited on 14-1-2003 by B]



posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by B

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
That's nice to see how many anti-communism/socialism peoples we have on this site.







Originally posted by FreeMason
but free peoples like us do mind and won't allow such "crap" (no pun intended
)


ROFL (no pun intended :p)

I'm a European before you guys start asking and I do wonder, cause here in my Country you have a lot of parties all with different believes, why you guys are so sceptical against socialism???

I mean here we have health insurances and stuff like that! If you're unemployed you'll get a "life loan" just enough to make a living. I mean Socialism is a good thing! We have to help each other!

[Edited on 14-1-2003 by B]



Interesting " b". Very interesting.


Could you try to explain us how the things are going on in Belgium. I think it will be an interesting reading. On ATS, we like to have many point of views.


Thanks.


B

posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 01:34 PM
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EDIT: Here we have a lot of different parties not gonna discus them all but the most important ones
Do know that Belgium is a very complicated country LOL splitted up in 3 regions. Flanders, Wallonie & Brussels. I don't know all of the politix stuff here but I'm gonna do my best to explain some stuff


CD&V (Christian Flemish Democrats)
VLD (Flemish Liberal Democrats)
SPA (Socialists Party)
Vlaams Blok (Flemsh Block > Extrem Right > Almost Fascists but they denie it)

Those are the big players int he scene
there are also other party's but their powers are limited. Because we HAVE TO vote the power is nicely distributed amongst the parties now we have a CD&V-Agalev-SP Gouvernement if I recall right


So let us say the gouvernement's main intrests are > Economy, Environment, Social affaires that's a nice balance imho. I'm not saying it's running smoothly but still! Earlyer we had a mainly CD&V-SPA gouvernement.

But Belgium has been a social country since the beginning we even have the best Social euh Thing ahum (english is not THAT good
) in Europe...

Social "Thing"
does a lot of good things! The system is like this the boss has to pay you a loan let us say 100 $ to make it easy but also has to pay 100 $ to the Social "Thing" all that money is used for Life Loan when you're unemployed, fundings when you have a big family, health insurance & stuff like that so in my humble opinon:

SOCIALISM RULES! Hope I made it a bit clearer


[Edited on 14-1-2003 by B]



posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by B
Gimme a minute! This is gonna take a while


You have all your time B, really all your time.


I'm patient you know, so patient....


P.S : Where are you living in Belgium ?

[Edited on 14-1-2003 by ultra_phoenix]


B

posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 01:45 PM
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I live in the Mediavel and very beautifull (and way too boring
) city of Bruges

SPAM DETECTED IN THIS POST


PS: I've edited the "this will take a minute" post


[Edited on 14-1-2003 by B]



posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 01:55 PM
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Yep, I understand that your social system is undermining your economy. In fact, those who are working have to pay for those who aren't, that's right ?

So, If want to start my own biz, I'll have to give to the gov a tons of money.You right B, that's a socialist country.


B

posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
Yep, I understand that your social system is undermining your economy. In fact, those who are working have to pay for those who aren't, that's right ?

So, If want to start my own biz, I'll have to give to the gov a tons of money.You right B, that's a socialist country.


Undermining our country? That's bull# our economy grew with 2,1% ! Look it up if you want!

People are more important than economy!!!

[Edited on 14-1-2003 by B]



posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 02:02 PM
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Everyone seeks a socialist society, but when the Government takes it upon themselves to force it, man does not become more "charitable" or helpful.

Who wants to help their fellow neighbor when you have taxes to do it instead?

The reason these scandanavian nations are doing so well and are so cheerful is because their culture was always very communal, socialism to them is just higher taxes.

But to very diverse democracies, like the UK and America, its a devistating approach, that does nothing to curb crime, nor anything to alleiviate the stresses of the masses.

Sincerely,
no signature


B

posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by FreeMason
The reason these scandanavian nations are doing so well and are so cheerful is because their culture was always very communal, socialism to them is just higher taxes.


Erm, Belgium isn't Scadinavian!!!



posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by B

Erm, Belgium isn't Scadinavian!!!


That's right. I checked on Internet.Belgium is member of a confederation, called " BeNeLux ". This confederation is ruled by a King and a Queen.

That's a communist confederation,but they are NATO member.


B

posted on Jan, 14 2003 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by ultra_phoenix
That's a communist confederation,but they are NATO member.



ROTFLMAO a communist organisation, come on read better!!!

We aren't commi's just a socialistic inspired communnity! And yes we are Nato Members



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