What's wrong with this country?

reply to post by Hal9000


Yeeeeeah you're right. That was a low blow there Th3On3, sorry.

I didn't think I sounded like such an ass at that point.

Cluck on, jive turkey.

But still... I guess when I hear a statement like that (no real offense to you, considering I not too long ago would have said the same things as you) I feel like I'm almost taking a blow at the source of that statement, wherever you perpetuated that statement from... and especially here, sometimes it is hard to remember that these are all people with feelings... but it is also poignant to mention here that when I said your statement was predictable, th3on3. I didn't mean you were predictable... but take a look at some of your thoughts about life... and if you really HONESTLY analyze youtrself for a while... it's just amazing how much of the stuff we say and we think we stand for when we're in the exact state of mind where we would accept a statement like that as "the way it is" that's actually not our beliefs at ALL. My god, you can lose your mind in that sort of self interrogation...

But I understand why you would make that statement. I just think you should take another look at everything, TH3ON3.

the layers are neverending.

oh and HAL9000, I respect you calling me out on some of my vulgarities and a low blow or two.

reply to post by TH3ON3



so, is this what we tell the men and women dying in iraq in war full of lies? is this what we tell the little kiddos who will never know their mommies and daddies? is this what we tell ourselves when we find ourselves slaves to a system that doesn't hate us, but worse, is apethetic to us?

i AM optimistic, but my optimism is based in reality, and reality says it is about time we get our hands a little dirty for the whole of this country and humanity in general.

i am thankful that i am still in a position to be able to express and formulate what needs to be done, but i am not waiting until it is too late to do such. i will accept what they "allow" me for the time being, but i am accepting it for the purpose of using it against them when push comes to shove, bc it will.

holding hands and focusing on what was has never won the liberties of the ppl in time past and i highly doubt it will work now.

but i am all for your rights to try it! hope it works, bc i would honestly not rather get my hands dirty. i just live in a place called "the real world"

Darfour. Now that is something I am not familiar with. Darfive or Darsix maybe.
Humanity is so hosed.

Once again Hal a most insightful reply. They are prepped for homegrown insurgency.
A dalia lama type of reform is the only one that will work.

Originally posted by jpm1602
Once again Hal a most insightful reply. They are prepped for homegrown insurgency.
A dalia lama type of reform is the only one that will work.

can you explain what you mean by this? i am not sure if this is sarcasm or if you are seeing this from a different view point as i am, which i am more than willing to hear out. you have peeked my interest w/ this.

Originally posted by TH3ON3
Stop dwelling on the negatve things in the USA or it will just keep getting you all down. Of course I have something different than about 2/3 of the posters, so I guess it does also have to do with outlook on life, what we were conditioned to think in our formative years.

I like to look at the best things and focus on them, maybe somehow contribute in spreading the good things around, and then suddenly the bad things don't seem so much of a burden. Sorry if I was a bit crass in my first post, but again life could be a lot lot worse...So try and recall think of the best times you've had in your life and smile, and count yourself lucky you could even muster one smile thinking about such.

Okay this is a good post. Because YES, you do need to be positive and hopeful... but you must also not be so positive that you lose focus of what is happening around you. I don't know how or why I got to this conspiracy theory place in the first place, but I've learned a lot since everything went upside down on me a couple of years ago. And if there isn't balance of weighing the good against the bad, then there's extremes, and extremes are destructive.

So... weighing the good against the bad....

Good:
-we don't get killed by police officers on our streets too often.
-there are not suicide bombers running around blowing everything up
-our children are mostly fed and sheltered
-we live in comfortable and scenic setting. It really is a beautiful land.
-we have mostly clean clothes, clean water, sanitary conditions
-we feel safe and secure that the wolves won't come take us away at night...mostly

Bad:
-the economy/government is a sham and it's going under, and we're all dependent on the curency that's tanking to have all that stuff I just mentioned.

So now... how many blessings are we left with that aren't in deep doodoo if nobody starts paying attention?

If people really had a desire to keep this all the way it's been for years, they should have stood up before September 11th, after all of those terror warnings (quite a few which briefly made it to headlines), and asked our government why it wasn't doing anything... and if they weren't gunna do anything about these crazy people that want to kill us all, we should have taken it upon ourselves...

Going back even further... nobody should have let them create the NSA or the CIA... nobody should have let them invade Vietnam and kill hundreds of thousands of our young go getters... nobody should have let them suppress dissent at Kent State leaving 3 dead and nothing accomplished.... nobody should have sat back and just trusted them.

If we in this country really really wanted to be patriots and defend our constitution, we should have at least a working knowledge of the founding documents, and we should've given more of a # then ever the first time they were tossed aside... too late now. Onto something new, ya know?

Outright and forceful dissent will be met with such. We are so far in the hole as a society we must be thoughtful in our approach. Every last congressman and senator should be ousted.
Let us start anew. Not going to happen but a heck of a dream.
Dunwitch, I hear the truth in your words.

[edit on 6/29/2008 by jpm1602]

Originally posted by jpm1602
Once again Hal a most insightful reply. They are prepped for homegrown insurgency.
A dalia lama type of reform is the only one that will work.

Neither the Dalia Lama, nor Gandhi had any idea what we face in our country today. We are up against the Military Industrial Complex, which may sound antiquated to you, but it is the force we are up against none the less. I also feel that we must resist but I have learned from experience that the more radical you appear the less support you will get. The way forward is to show how the future will benefit everyone. If they can't see it, then what more can we do without people getting hurt? That is something that I can't justify for any reason.

Agreed Hal. The MIC has had this country by the short and curlies for decades.
Ask your Dr if........is right for you.

I wish to God I had some type of clairvoyant answer to the madness.

I do not.

Originally posted by jpm1602
Outright and forceful dissent will be met with such. We are so far in the hole as a society we must be thoughtful in our approach. Every last congressman and senator should be ousted.
Let us start anew. Not going to happen but a heck of a dream.
Dunwitch, I hear the truth in your words.

[edit on 6/29/2008 by jpm1602]

i hear your intent in this and in what dunwitch says and if this could work, i'd be all for it... but there just aren't enough to jump on this bandwagon in order for it to work.

so now what is your suggestion? lay down and allow the "rapes" to continue?

i don't condone war (that is war for the purpose of pursuing a handful of ppl's agenda), but let me give you an example of where i coming from. let's say that things on friday went differently (which they didn't turn out GREAT, for sure... but for sake of arguement...) and we lost our right to bear arms. what are they going to do? i have come up w/ two scenarios.

#1. they will have places for them to be surrendered (and remember, those of us who are law abiding have them registered). so, i don't bring my gun in bc that is something they don't have the right to take away from me no matter WHAT law they put into existence.

#2. they come to my house and try to forceably take it. here is where i say "good luck" bc i have done nothing wrong and am exercising my right to defend myself and my family. do i want to fight? no, but i will not hand over my rights just to be left alone. one of us will have to surrender.....either the one who wants to have a means of protecting their family or the one who wants to take away that means.

now tell me, are there going to be enough "thinkers" to help me get out of this scenario peaceably w/ my right to defend remaining intact?


how are our thoughts going to help the economy? we need a complete overhauling of this system that has screwed us, not just thoughts.

really, i was on this "thought parade" not so long ago when my good thoughts taught me that sometimes you have to actually make the stand. doesn't mean ya wanna fight, but sometimes you have to for (literally) goodness' sake

[edit on 30-6-2008 by justamomma]

[edit on 30-6-2008 by justamomma]

I do not in any way momma refute your beliefs. I think we are so far gone as society and country the outlook is as bleak as a black hole.

Originally posted by jpm1602
Outright and forceful dissent will be met with such. We are so far in the hole as a society we must be thoughtful in our approach. Every last congressman and senator should be ousted.

Good evening, JPM1602

I'm on the same page as you on this. I'd love nothing more than to get rid of the current crop that resides on D.C. Just bringing in new faces is not going to solve the problem.
The lobbyists and the PAC's that they run or belong to have to go as well. All that special interest crud. These guys are serious players in the political game. If I understand it correctly, there job is to buy you off! Get you to vote fore or against an item the way they want you to and then set up a $10,000 a plate dinner for you with the proceeds going into your re-election war chest.
As you and other people have stated, this is nothing new, it's been going on forever. Unchecked, for the most part.
I agree that we need wholesale changes in all aspects of the way things are run.
Like you, I'll keep holding my breath fro a little while longer.

Could not agree with you more wolf. Crystalized my thoughts completely.

Letterman has a somewhat amusing thread in first half hour. 'Great speeches by presidents' or some such.

When I see Eisenhower speaking of the military industrial complex he looks like he saw a ghost.

[edit on 6/30/2008 by jpm1602]

America ..whats wrong with America ?

Nothing of course!!

We still have sports and games, game shows, chocolate, Coke Cola, Brittney Spears, Porn, serial Killers both in suburbs and Congress, Racists, Sexists, Bigots, dumbed dulled and braindead citizens that are groomed to repeat cereal commercials, later on repeat bad jokes from poorly written sitcoms, and later on repeat what pop media says on Nightline, its all about dumbing down, in which America succeeds next to War industries, and poor healthcare, America excels in these fields.

there is nothing wrong with America!!!

Lets see, George Washington stated in the treaty of Tripoli, that this nation was not found on Religion, end quote.

and what happens, Who runs the gambit now, hoping that Christ makes a second visit thru the promise of Global annihilation, just so a few arrogant god fearing racist bigots from the bible belt can have there spiritual ego buffs!! the bigger the god, the better the heaven.

there is nothing wrong with America!!!

Ok, I love America so much, that I am doing my service by questioning my own country, you would be doin a dis-service, if you did not seek the best future for Americans to Come. If there is loose muffler , or Gas leak in your car, you may want to question the reliability of the drive correct?

So, I am glad that this Thread started. we must look at this nation with great care. The greatest trial for us as Americans is to ask ourselves the definition of Unity, Union, and Uniqueness.

We can not go claiming We are United when we build walls around us like the Chinese did to keep out Barbarians. We are made of such a unique fibers, that every thread that migrated to the Native American land later made it such the great Quilt that it is now. That is Unity , without uniqueness, there will not be a Union.

my next question is .. Do we have Fascists disguised as Religious righteousness!
and are these the same people who protects only themselves, meaning their companies, corporations, industries, etc... that have kept lay people like us fighting and bickering amongst ourselves like cattle scrambling before a killing.

the future may look great now, but how will it look the next 5 years?

The Romans thought they were doing the right thing at one period, crucifying any or anyone that speaks his/her mind..( keep that in mind )

reply to post by wolf241e

For what it's worth, this is how Obama feels about lobbyists.

Obama's In Control: No More Lobbyist Contributions To Democratic Party

You may not believe that he means what he says, but I am willing to give him a chance. If he is successful and continues this policy that will convince more people that this is one of the major problems in this country, which I believe it is. This is one of the small steps I was talking about, and no one gets hurt. These negative forces will be out to make him look bad and will do whatever it takes to defeat Obama in this coming election, which judging from what we've seen so far, tells me he is on the right track.



[edit on 6/30/2008 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by wolf241e
For along time now, I have watched the country eat up our taxes and grow so wasteful.

Originally posted by wolf241e
Anyone notice that not one of them is talking about the issues that really matter to us, the common folk. Will I have Social Security? Will medical care and prescription drugs ever become affordable? Are taxes going to get even worse? Will I be able to keep filling the gas tank at the current prices and still enjoy my lifestyle? Will my 401k still be there when I need it since it’s all really just a computer generated number for now?

The first thing you said is against a welfare entitlement state and spending, the second thing demands a welfare entitlement state and spending.

You cannot have it both ways. If you want to suck on the government teat and have them protect you from everything - including apparently gas prices and your own investment decisions according to the quote above - you cannot have a lean government that does not waste. Welfare entitlements are expensive.

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


Hi there ALightinDarkness.

Thanks for reading the post.

I guess that the thing that I'm really disturbed about in regards to Social Security is that the fund was run so badly that it really doesn't exist anymore. The powers that be kept on taking from it, a little at first, and then more and more.
I know that the was not designed to be what it has become today. Today we live longer and recipients of SS take more from it than they put in all those years ago. But answer me this...

When do you think you can retire?
What will the retirement age be then?? 72? 74?
I not trying to have it both ways, but the money's are mismanaged so badly that we(as a country) are sinking in debt.

My own investment portfolio is do well, so I'm not bitching about that. I'm hoping for a mid 60's retirement myself.

As for contradicting one's self, what kind of phrase is this... "You cannot have a lean gov that does not waste.

Originally posted by wolf241e
I guess that the thing that I'm really disturbed about in regards to Social Security is that the fund was run so badly that it really doesn't exist anymore. The powers that be kept on taking from it, a little at first, and then more and more.

Well, before I say anything else, I hope you do know the entire "omg social security is doomed" thing the media hypes is untrue. Its a classical example of media spin - IF and ONLY IF they never raise the earnings cap or raise social security taxes, then it will run out. Politicians are not that self-destructive. They realize the people who draw social security (elderly, disabled) have more time on their hands and are more likely to vote than the people getting taxed for social security (the employed).

It was mismanaged, I do agree with you, but this is what happens with government entitlements. No entitlement ever runs correctly because the amount of money required to fund them becomes exponential. You could only fund ALL of the federal government's entitlements by raising taxes to enormous levels across the board. Politicians will never do that, because their short term interest is in staying in office, and they know that raising taxes to the level required to fund entitlements would get them thrown out even in the most liberal states. It perpetually becomes "someone else's problem." However - its not going to end. They will always raise taxes just enough to barely cover it.

Originally posted by wolf241e
When do you think you can retire?
What will the retirement age be then?? 72? 74?
I not trying to have it both ways, but the money's are mismanaged so badly that we(as a country) are sinking in debt.

You retire when you feel like doing so. The government is not forcing you to retire at a certain age. Nor is it the responsibility of government to give you your retirement. If you want the government to fund everyone's retirement, then you better get ready for everyone to be taxed 40% or more across the board, because that is going to be one huge welfare entitlement. I'd rather invest my own money and get higher returns.

Social security was never meant to be your retirement. It was meant as a "safety net" to help those who for unforeseen reasons could not produce enough income to live on in their senior citizen years. It was expected that people would work and earn their own retirements, but that the government would protect them if needed. It is not meant to be your pension, and never was.

Originally posted by wolf241e
As for contradicting one's self, what kind of phrase is this... "You cannot have a lean gov that does not waste.

You are ignoring the first part of the sentence, which states that creating and funding welfare entitlements generates waste, and that you cannot have abundant welfare for everyone and a lean government. Its true. You can choose to be taxed less and spend your own money, or be raped by taxes and pray the government manages your money better than you will.

There are two schools of thought: the government should protect the people, or the people should be protected from the government. I come from the second school, obviously.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

What's wrong with this country are the ignorant and uneducated masses falling for socialist propaganda. You're being told that America is a terrible place, and you believe it. You're being told that America is evil, and and you believe it. You're being told that America needs some sort of drastic change (although "they" never explain the nature of that change), and you believe it.

Look, you're being set-up for the end of American sovereignty. The corporate entities that own our politicians, our Congress, and our courts have worked diligently for many decades to make the USA utterly dependent on other nations in preparation for One World Government. The USA cannot and must not remain a sovereign nation while the rest of the world adopts one law, one economy, and one central government. This means we must give up the U.S. Constitution and adopt a Global Constitution, which is just as socialist as it can be.

The only way to make this transition less painful is to convince the American people that their country, their government, and those who oppose NWO are evil. The American people must be convinced that we need change at any cost.

So, everyday, we see one headline story after another about how dreadful America has become. Such anti-American stories are absurd on the face of it, but the deluge continues 24/7... and those with weak minds fall for it. Hell, even those with strong minds fall for it and become mouthpieces for the socialist garbage.

We'd all better get it into our heads that Globalization isn't going to go away. But the USA should not fall under the weight of anti-American lies and socialist propaganda. If the USA must go out, it should go out fighting, and I mean armed insurrection. Call it The New American Revolution.




[edit on 6/30/2008 by Doc Velocity]

what's wrong with this country?
That's an easy one how about this.Woodrow wilson took us off the gold standard and installed the federal reserve bank.If politicians want money for something(war,national health insurance,trips to disneyland to study mickeys habits,etc,etc)they just have the fed print it.When the fed prints money it loses value.They've been doing this since 1913.Since the fed is not constitutional and they got away with it very few of your senators represenitives,presidents,or judges pay any attention to the constitution after they sware thier oath to uphold and protect it.The people have never held them accountable for this.
Do you want to see this government straighten up real quick like?Start putting them on trial for treason and hanging them.This isn't going to happen.Why?
Because the people for the most part have no idea what the constitution was written for let alone what it says.For the most part people don't want to know.
They don't want to be bothered.They have thier two cars and a tv in every room
they are getting along fine right now so they are not willing to rock the boat.My
daughter is a fine example of just that mentality.When things crumble around her she'll wonder what happened.When that happens I'll smile at her and say,just what you wanted to happen.