Meltdown US banks within weeks says Fortis chairman

Sometimes I feel like I'm at the peak of a roller coaster... about to start the descent. Only, I don't wanna be on this ride.


Whatever the outcome, financial collapses and recessions always bounce back. Do what you can to acquire what you need to wait it out, and you'll be fine.

What really irks me is the worse the economy does, the more investors pull out and invest in Oil... whose trend is clearly going up.
The more they invest in oil, the more it's worth.
The more it's worth, the harder it is for the economy to operate.
The worse the economy performs, the more investors pull out and invest in oil.

See the pattern?

How the heck do you stop something like that?!
You can't stop investors from being investors, they look out for themselves, asking them to do otherwise would be like asking a bomb disposal tech to purposely set one off in his face.

Either way, once the economy collapses, those invested in oil will quickly find that while the dollar value of it hasn't gone down... the value of the dollar makes their investment worth next to nil.
With that being said, it's a prime opportunity for other nations investors to take over what the US has crashed. The value depreciates because now interest is in selling, not buying... other countries take over the oil fields at a lower cost than the US was cornering it.
Once thats done, and supply lines are re-established, the worlds economy can afford the fuel enough to get itself back on track.

The only difference once we recover from this is, someone else other than the US controls the oil. The financial sectors of the US are now owned by other nations (see US bank buyouts by Canadian banks such as TD, RBC, BMO)

And allot of their other economical sectors have been bought out by other nations. Essentially, the US is now under new ownership.

Just in time to figure out what to do about the food shortage in the US, because the farmers couldn't afford to run their farm.

Should be interesting.

Originally posted by johnsky
How the heck do you stop something like that?!

The same way it gets stopped every recession. And this does happen every recession. A critical mass is reached until someone goes "uh-oh, commodities are over-valued." Hedge fund managers and pensions move out, the price crashes, the sheeple involved panic and sell at lower prices because they can't see the bottom, and were down quite a bit from all time highs by the time its all over.

That is why I feel so sad for all of the ATS doom and gloomers who are buying into gold, oil, and commodities. Its a bubble that is going to burst and unless they get lucky they are going to lose a ton of money.

This cycle happens every time before a recession.

Really are you fing serious. Do you seriously believe that the number one U.S economy will have a major collapse in a matter of a few days. If you believe that then you should be riding the short bus

reply to post by obamafan14


I don't believe it is likely, but definately possible. As I stated in another thread I curently have no position either way. Anyone who denies that there is STILL systemic risk present deserves to lose their money. The FED has backed itself in the corner, CONgress is on vacation, and things just smell bad right now.

On another point, I'm working on what positions I will take in case Obama wins. I'm thinking that with his positions on cap gains that a lotto put on pretty much any market might be a decent gamble. Also a short against the US long bond might not be a bad Idea either given the current admins spendthrift policies, and Obama's promises might not be a bad idea either.

reply to post by likepaincomefromheaven

You sense the same as I do. The elites are a long way from having much of the system they want in place. You destroy the current system, that is a strong America, and offer a solution to desperate people that they might not ordinarily accept. It's perfect.
It's like someone turned a switch in the past year. Our whole country and the world financial order are falling apart with breathtaking speed. Too many things have changed overnight to be just a "natural" occurence of cycles.
The North American Union, a new monetary unit (the Amero), chips and REAL ID's for citizens.... I now think these will be a reality by 2010 at the latest as the elites let our country crash into chaos and depression, giving them more control and collecting all the country's capital in the same step. Time will tell. I've been buying gold for a year now, everytime I save up $1000. Close to 10K now.

I found this concerning the IMF audit of the US....

WASHINGTON -- The United States Federal Reserve Bank, or Fed, seems as much a part of America as Coca-Cola or Pizza Hut. But at least one difference has become apparent in recent days. While the pizza chain and soft-drink maker are likely to expand their scope of influence in the age of globalization, the US central bank is finding that its power is shrinking.

No Fed chief in US history has been forced to submit to the kind of humiliation that Ben Bernanke is facing.

This is partly due to circumstances. Inflation is going up and up, and this year's average will likely top 4 percent. But this time Mr. Dollar is also Mr. Powerless. He can raise interest rates in the fall, or he can pray, which would probably be the better choice. At least prayer would not prevent the US economy from growing, a highly likely outcome if interest rates go up.
gata.org...

I particularly like this part:

nder its bylaws, the IMF is charged with the supervision of the international monetary system. Roughly two-thirds of IMF members -- but never the United States -- have already endured this painful procedure.

For seven years, US President George W. Bush refused to allow the IMF to conduct its assessment. Even now, he has only given the IMF board his consent under one important condition. The review can begin in Bush's last year in office, but it may not be completed until he has left the White House. This is bad news for the Fed chairman.

When the final report on the risks of the US financial system is released in 2010 -- and it is likely to cause a stir internationally -- only one of the people in positions of responsiblity today will still be in office: Ben Bernanke.

if everything was as peachy as bush had been claiming.....why not let them come in and audit, and release the results sooner?
and, well, I am beginning to wonder, if the ceo's and such of these companies can be prosecuted for giving us the impression that all it great, when it's not, why can't the government officials, or the media when they do the exact same thing? IF you ever listen to the wall street gurus on the tv, you know what I mean. according to them the worst of the housing bust has been over for awhile and far too often I am hearing them promoting the stocks they have investments in like ya....these are the money makers! lol....ya, sure.....these are the stocks they want us to buy into, to preserve their investments is all!

well, at least someone is indicating that they think there will be a 2010!

reply to post by johnsky

couldn't afford to farm?
they had more corn planted this year than expected.....it just got flooded out.

which leads to another headache that we ain't hearing about...
what's the financial backlash from all these disasters...fires in the west, floods in the midwest, towns being blown away by tornados.....
the only positive I can see from that is that hey, that's alot of displaced people looking for homes, maybe it will help dampen the housing crash. but, it has to be doing a number on the insurance industry.


[edit on 1-7-2008 by dawnstar]

Good, enough of the Golden Calf (Money). Time to remember the only thing of real value in this world (People).

Enough of spoiled rotten teens who hate their selfish and equally spoiled rotten parents and think the world revolves around their video games. Enough of adults chasing degrees and dollars and working around the clock to fuel their greed and vanity but can't be bothered to spend time with each other (because both men and women now chase this false dream) and make love to continue the Chain of Life. Enough of boomer grandparents who watch their stocks and manage their vacations with glee but can't be bothered to keep up with their own children or grandchildren except on holidays.

Enough of sheltered neighborhoods where people barely know the people next door, but know everything there is to know about Paris Hilton and Britney Spears. Enough of a life where everything has a price but nothing has value. People think an economic collapse would be the end of the world? No, it would be a wake up call for the beginning of a world.

People are right now killing each other to keep their money every day. Human beings today are starving or being blown to pieces so that others can hold on to their material comforts. The most amazing thing about September 11 and even the NYC blackout was that people did not become savages ready to kill each other. Instead, people became nicer, there was unexpected peace between people.

Don't believe the hype, People. We were all fashioned by the Creator in Love, and in times of trouble our souls do remember that.

reply to post by ALightinDarkness


Except since 2001..

Pensions have been sacrificed to keep stocks stable.......

Not all recessions are the same, as even you will agree of course, no one can predict economics.

So it is fair to say there is always the possibility of a bank collapse, just as much as there is of there not being one.

reply to post by muse801


When banks crash you don't get all your money back. If you are lucky you'll get a percentage. One has to question how it could possibly occur given that banking is practically a license to print money. As I recall for every dollar they have on deposit they can lend out nine dollars they don't have and then be paid principal plus interest over the loan period. The catch for the economy is however that this increases the money supply leading to monetary devaluation and consequent inflation.

Originally posted by sn00daard
Just some background on Fortis:

Earlier this week the Fortisstock dropped from around 35 euro to around 10.
Fortis bought Rabobank some time ago for which they had to pay 24 billion. They did not have the money but they had a solid plan to get it. Part of it (about 13 billion) would come from a "recapitalization" the rest would come from selling of buildings and so called "non-core" activities.

[edit on 30-6-2008 by sn00daard]

Fortis DID NOT buy Rabobank, they did buy the clients part of ABN AMRO bank, another part went ot RBS, and another (LaSalle) to Banco Santander.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Pjotr]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Id love to be part of the group that stormed omaha, or lay seige on Berlin..
It was a great victory for free loving men and by gosh id LOVE to have been a part of it.

so much so, ive spent the last few years doing nothing but TRAVELLING THESE PLACES, and from Australia, thats no mean feet.

St Mere Eglise, Normandy, Bastogne, Krakow, Berlin, Monte Casino, Hiroshima, Nagasaki..... boy to be a part of it.

unfortunately all I have is the dozens upon dozens of documentaries, the day dreams and the photos...

but to live todays change? be part of the great revolution?

If you dont want to be a part of that, what good are you as a human anyway.

I do not know how old you are, but not too old I guess. You are being nostalgic about storming enemy beaches. That is 1-0 for TV-reality. You are disconnected from the real world in my serious opinion. I know these people who fought there and lived to tell. My uncle told stories about riding a loadbike with guns in cases. He had to give a couple german privates a ride. When he rode the germans who were sitting on the cases with guns to their camp, he nearly pissed his pants. War was a f-king nightmare for soldiers that had to storm beaches and it was mindcrippling dull for those in hiding or home.. Your friends ripped to peaces before your eyes, your hand squashed like a bug under concrete or iron.

What you ache for is real living! Authenticity, you will not find it in war my friend, if you cannot find it normal live. Revolutions are tagnames for takeovers by other megalomaniacs. If you have this longing in your body, you just did not reach your full potential. Just find it. Don't live a reflective live being nostalgic about movies.

reply to post by SugarCube


Agree thoroughly - looks like an engineered collapse. The European elites will have a field day buying US property and businesses, especially with the dollar so de-valued and the euro over-inflated.

Instead, Lehman (nyse: LEH - news - people ) shares got kicked down the stairs late Monday, dropping nearly 12% amid speculation that the U.K. banking group Barclays (nyse: BCS - news - people ) would make an offer to buy it--at a below-market price.

Lehman started the day at $22.25, which is already below its book value of $39 a share and below an equity capital raise earlier this month of $28 a share. It closed trading on Monday at around $20 a share

Barclays actually negotiated the possibility of a merger/ (friendly) take over of ABN Amro. However, shareholders accepted the higher consortium bid of RBS, Fortis and Banco Santander over the respectively lower bid of Barclays.

This explains why Barclays has plenty of money available for a hostile take over of Lehman Brothers.

It's being speculated that the share price will be much below its book price - therefore confirming the Lehman is in big troubles and would otherwise simply collapse.

Originally posted by Pjotr

Fortis DID NOT buy Rabobank, they did buy the clients part of ABN AMRO bank, another part went ot RBS, and another (LaSalle) to Banco Santander.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Pjotr]

Err indeed, ABN Amro, I made a mistake thanx for pointing it out
will edit my post.

reply to post by sn00daard

What this means is that eventually the almighty Dollar will collapse. In which case we can institute the indivisible Amero to help us back on our way.

reply to post by Rockpuck


What? This happened in 2001 as well. The difference is that one of the "mainstays" of doom and gloomers (oil) is one of the things contributing to the problems this time. But it won't stop the cycle from happening again. The bubble will get only a little bit larger before it pops and all of the little guys are left out to dry because they tried to time the market.

on a side note...

i used to work for a very smart CEO and he shared some perspective with me one day on his thoughts about the financial implications that happened after 9/11.

he said something to the tune of: "this country is built by us the people. we are a churning and burning machine. we all have lives that we want to uphold and we are not owned by anyone. WE (the people) are buying and selling business and making business happen and innovating. nothing is going to stop this machine". (i know it sounds a bit patriotic but his point had a ring to it)

change will occur, but in the end it has shown it self corrects.

"They recently raised a lot of capital and cancelled their dividend, leaving a lot of people worried about their own solvency." -quote from article sited regarding Fortis.

While I agree our financial system is certainly on shakey ground, one should keep in mind, Fortis may be attempting to shift focus from their own shortcoming to US banks to avoid further examination of Fortis itself.

Like most others on this site, I have much of my funds in currency based funds. We are dealing in a world awash with non-backed paper. I don't plan to do much in the short term, since I would be shifting funds amongst loosers. What is the point.

My best advise, stockpile some freeze dried food and a barrel of drinking water, hide a reasonable amount of cash in a safe place along with some good 'ol pre 1965 US silver coins to use in case of a complete financial collapse...then take a deep breath and go see a movie!

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness

Originally posted by johnsky
How the heck do you stop something like that?!

The same way it gets stopped every recession. And this does happen every recession. A critical mass is reached until someone goes "uh-oh, commodities are over-valued." Hedge fund managers and pensions move out, the price crashes, the sheeple involved panic and sell at lower prices because they can't see the bottom, and were down quite a bit from all time highs by the time its all over.

That is why I feel so sad for all of the ATS doom and gloomers who are buying into gold, oil, and commodities. Its a bubble that is going to burst and unless they get lucky they are going to lose a ton of money.

This cycle happens every time before a recession.

as well as before a depression.

you should not feel that bad for them , they have made a killing.

Also investment banks may have cornered the commodity futures market with the means and legal option to have unlimited positions and as long as the dollar is weak commodity's will be sky high.

Of course there is the chance that the fed hikes rates ( and dollar could strengthen) and in that case their would be alot of banks going belly up and a consolidation of power in the financial system w/ GOld man sachs probably at the pinnacle (in U.S) this would also lead to reduced lending by banks and a very deep recession. Of course oil would probably go down alot, but the reduced lending and failures of banks w high leverage when higher intrest rates hit would offset the lower prices of oil in the economy IMO.

and yes trying to time market peaks and troughs is difficult especially this cycle (where commodity's are so closely tied with various central bank intrest rate changes, and new regulation?) , where as the housing cycle was a bit easier to notice a slow down in momentum before the bottom dropped out.

[edit on 1-7-2008 by cpdaman]