Obama and the Socialist Ideal

I applaud the author of this thread for his effort, but it is pointless to try. Obama could come out and openly say he is socialist (he's come close a time or two) and people would still applaud. Most people in the US have been raised on socialist ideals in our public education system, to the point that they are blind to the faults of it, and blind to how much socialism already infests the US. Want to know why this country has fallen so far in the last 100 years? We left free markets and personal freedom behind, and began the lemming charge towards socialism. It's not a left or right issue, not a democrat or republican thing; BOTH sides are moving us towards socialism. If you want a change for freedom and prosperity, organize or join an existing organization to bring freedom back to the land of the free! Otherwise, prepare to bend over and take it for the sake of the poor, until taxation makes you one of the poor, living in a hovel and scraping to keep you and yours alive another day.

[edit on 6/29/2008 by saturnine_sweet]

Originally posted by jetxnet
It's not about culture. It's about not having the government control everything. If that is uniting of the cultures where everyone becomes dependent on the government just for a low-level welfare playing field, then that isn't good for competition which creates for better quality products and services.

The democratic party has had control of Congress for two years now. In that two years, they managed to screw up the economy pretty-good in terms of Mortgage Lending etc., which is the major domestic catalyst for what is becoming a crippled economy.

It is no wonder many democratic Sentators are part of the Home Mortgage Scandals, including Obama before any of these major scandals.
[edit on 29-6-2008 by jetxnet]

Reaching there Jetxnet - Your very partisan, you are like the second rightist right wing cat I've encountered here... I think topped only by Charles Manson's sister in a fighter jet.

First off this mortgage crap started long before the Dems got control, I know this because I worked in sub prime 02-03-04 .

Fact is this lending policy was a liberal policy, that was intended to protect against discrimination of sorts.

In 2000 DOT --HUD-- approached Republican control Washington with concerns of
irresponsible loan practices. In short this current situation was speculated about eight years ago. The problem is that the Republicans did not want to interfere with industry
by over regulating it. Being in majority the issue was left to the free market.

It was good before the Dems got control. Interest rates were at their lowest and the market was flourishing.

It is fact.

Now, since the Dems took control, the market has taken a nose-dive with scandals at the top of it all.

Read about the recent scandals involving Senators Conrad and Dodd. The Boston Globe did a great piece on the whole thing, including Obama's involvement with rampid scandals in his Chicago District that afforded major kick-backs to himself and slumb lords like Tony Rezko.

Don't try to sugar-coat this by trying to establish some sort of credibility from having worked in the field. You are obviously a Liberal because you called me a right-winger.

You are partisan, and that is obvious.

Originally posted by jetxnet
It was good before the Dems got control. Interest rates were at their lowest and the market was flourishing.

It is fact.

Now, since the Dems took control, the market has taken a nose-dive with scandals at the top of it all.

Read about the recent scandals involving Senators Conrad and Dodd. The Boston Globe did a great piece on the whole thing, including Obama's involvement with rampid scandals in his Chicago District that afforded major kick-backs to himself and slumb lords like Tony Rezko.

Don't try to sugar-coat this by trying to establish some sort of credibility from having worked in the field. You are obviously a Liberal because you called me a right-winger.

You are partisan, and that is obvious.

True, I am partisan- yes I am liberal and you can be as right wing as you want...
I was trying to point out that you are only representing a very small "take" on a very large issue. In this one field I know more then most by coincidence.

The fact is this whole economic mess is not only one parties responsibility - It was
stupidly vague in its liberal inception--- and the republicans desire to not regulate the holes helped this become a perfect storm!

Anyways if you can provide a link to a particular article on Conrad and Dodd scandals I will inform myself better on the current contributing factors.

Great Post

Still though the people who wants him, just isn't going to care about any of this.

They will vote him in no matter what evil plan he has for our country.

He can come out and tell them all what god you will worship, what church you will go to and where and how long to work.

And they will shake their heads yes, and say, " it's about time someone put order in my life!!!!"


[edit on 30-6-2008 by Shar]

The best source for the Mortgage scandals is the thread below:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Obama is a Totalitarian, like Kim Jong Ill, but with a better suit. Obama wants 300 million cheerleaders while he controls his lemmings.

Michelle Obama's image has been re-done from a selfish snob who disrepects the US (her true self) to the sweet and graceful girl next door (her new engineered image).

ObamaMSNBC has come out with a story today saying all Internet rumors about the Obamessiah are false, and that they speak the truth ..LOL. What suckers would believe this? Only the uninformed at the mercy of the MSM. The Internet is outdoing them and they don't like it.

The truth the Internet blogsphere speaks about Obama's shady character and his shady dealings and how he is misleading American citizens are hitting small-town USA.

More American's are becoming informed about the real Obama.

reply to post by jetxnet


Okay I'm reading...

Originally posted by southern_Guardian

How convenient for republicans to suffer from amnesia, maybe this explains the hypocrisy flying around from McBush supporters.

McCain is the biggest flip flopper of em all

I'll have to disagree. I don't like McCain, he's a huge liberal, but at least with him you know what you are getting. He doesn't hide the fact he wants more war, open borders, more socialism, etc. Just look how he spoke his mind and said "100 more years [in iraq]." At least with McCain you know you are getting a war mongerer. Obama on the other hand hides his true feelings, he is good at fooling everyone.

Originally posted by southern_Guardian
Jetnex and his buddy Bush with his 8years mismanagement further indicates the hypocrisy coming from the republican party and its supporters.

Oh a republican-basher I see. Well, party division lines are stupid. Republican party, Democrat party, they are basically the same with the same agenda. They are called Demopublicans for a reason. Both parties are corrupt to no end.

McCain is a huge liberal, he would fit much better in the democratic party. The only issue he is conservative on at all is taxes. That's why he's such huge friends with Feingold and Lieberman, both democrats, and will probably choose one of them as his running mate. And being that the republicans nominated McCain, is basically says most of them are huge liberals too.


So much conservative-bashing these days, but you all haven't had a true conservative president for quite a few years, even before many of us were born. So you don't realize how good a conservative is needed for this country right now. All you've had for the past 8 years is Bush who calls himself a conservative but he's only conservative on 3 issues and liberal on all other issues.

Conservatism makes for a better government 99% of the time.

reply to post by mental modulator


Ya thats some nasty paddy cake those idiots have been playing- good thread

I have a left-leaning political philosophy and I'm not sure I'll vote for Obama because many of his views are too far to the right. He's no socialist.
Someone needs to shoot their tv and AM radio if they think otherwise.

reply to post by saturnine_sweet


Bull____

I can see the correlations being made, but the stuff I see is no different than looking for the number 23. Yeah, I can see what Semper is trying to say, but I disagree and do not think Obama is socialist at all, but for you to say something that is so blatantly false, tells me that you are the type of person who listens so intently to what others tell you that you become blinded to your own reasoning.

I support Obama, but if he came out and admitted to being a socialist, I would not. Anyone who doesn't support Obama seems to have these massive delusions that all of his supporters are mindless zombies following a master when this is not the case at all, should you do your research. Just because people here disagree on some issues does NOT make them brainless, despite what you may secretly hope for so that you do not have to defend yours.

Is Obama perfect? No.

Does Obama have many faults? Yes.

Is he better than McCain? Oh God Yes.

Does he stand for change more so than McCain? Yes.

Does Obama have a better chance of uniting people than McCain? Well, being a good orator, Yes.

Am I a mindless 'Obamatron' who cannot think for myself? Why don't you read some of my posts and decide that for yourself.

Does the Obama campaign headquarters have a flag of the miserable Communist dictatorship Cuba, embellished with the face of Che Guevara? Yes.

Is one of Obama's leading Campaign advisors a Communist? Yes. Does he have influences from a young age by Communist party members? Yes.

Frank Marshall Davis (whose identity Obama tried to hide when referencing him in his book). Davis had some considerable influence on the young Obama when they both lived in Hawaii. Obama himself says as much in his book, referring to his early mentor merely as "Frank." It took some recent digging to confirm that Davis was in fact that influence. Did Obama really think that the very act of hiding the man's true identity would make no one curious?

Davis has also been identified as a member of the Communist Party. When the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee in 1956 asked him to affirm or deny his membership in the party, he refused to respond, citing the Fifth Amendment. Adding to that is the fact — revealed in the news conference referenced below — that Davis began his communist career in Chicago and was a friend and associate of the singer Paul Robeson and the longshore union official Harry Bridges, both secret Communist Party members.

Has Obama been abandoned by some of his own Democratic Senator supporters saying he was too Liberal? Yes.

Senators from Ohio and Oklahoma have stated they will not support Obama because he is too Liberal, even for them.

Has Obama been labeled in political circles or even voted as the most Liberal Senator? Yes.

It may or may not be a trophy that he wants to pick up right now.

The National Journal is out with its 27th Annual vote ratings and it ranked Sen. Barack Obama as the most liberal Senator in the entire Senate.

Is Communism extreme Socialism? Yes.


[edit on 30-6-2008 by jetxnet]

reply to post by semperfortis


Dear Semperfortis

Your tagline is death before dishonor, well If you want stay true to your tagline I suggest you may think about killing yyourself because you have dishonored yourself, conservaties and America.

Your 3 videos say nothing at all about Obama. There glen beck clips, are you freaking kidding me glen beck one of the if not the biggest ignorant, foolish media tool on television. The first clip is more about hugo chavez than obama.

What I love about these ridiculous no scratch that moronic attacks is that NO ONE NAMES ONE POLICY OF OBAMA"S THAT CAN BE CLASSIFIED AS SOCIALIST. You keep calling him a socialist yet you provide ZERO EVIDENCE for your claims.

Take your head out of your A$$ and look at the facts. U

U claim Obama will bankrupt our economy yet u fail to mention this war in Iraq that will cost us somewhere in the ballpark of 1 trillion dollars but we cant mention that because it was started by a republican

More than half of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills, but we can't offer free health insurance because it will destroy our economy and its never been done before...... oh wait almost every other major country in the world offers free health care and lo and behold their society still stands. The euro is outperfoming the dollar and they have nationalized healthcare and much higher taxes

Your old insults are tired and out of the 1960's it used to be funny to watch but now its just sad. Keep up the good work and enjoy the 55 to 45, beatdown dems will give these tired republicans. Hell we might even reach 320 electoral points and gain a 60 majority in the senate

I have reported this thread to Obama's Internet Police Website and ATS is now on the list of websites to be shut down because it fails to fall in line with his ideals. Once he gets into the Presidential Office, you can expect any opposing viewpoints to be squelched immediately! The Fairness Doctrine will be adopted and Right Wing talk radio will finally be silenced. You can bet your INTERNET mud-slinging will be silenced IMMEDIATELY afterwards!

Liberals are amazing aren't they? If you bring up a valid argument, present evidence to support it, but they don't like what they hear......well then OBVIOUSLY you are a racist fear mongerer slinging mud! Glenn Beck has always been one of my favorite Talk Radio hosts (it is simply amazing that CNN allows him on their network at all)!

Think about this you Left-Winged wack-jobs. If the government starts silencing Right-Wingers on Talk Radio (the only media where the Right can be heard), who is it that is taking away Freedom of Speech? The Fairness Doctrine (already Nancy Pelosi is promising to reintroduce it to Congress once a Democrat becomes elected President) sets a very bad precedence. Let capitalism run its course! Just because Liberal Talk Radio Hosts have been laughed off the air doesn't give you the right to squash programs that are successful because they ACTUALLY have an audience! Liberal Talk Radio didn't work (because Liberals simply don't listen to Talk Radio).

Liberal Democrats truly are approaching the boundaries of SOCIALISM. Quit being hypocrites and open your damn eyes!

[edit on 30-6-2008 by CreeWolf]

Originally posted by OrangeAlarmClock

I'll have to disagree. I don't like McCain, he's a huge liberal, but at least with him you know what you are getting.

Oh really? So all these smears about Obama are as a result of people not knowing enough about the man? Well atleast you admitted so, thanks for coming forward.

He doesn't hide the fact he wants more war, open borders, more socialism, etc. Just look how he spoke his mind and said "100 more years [in iraq]." At least with McCain you know you are getting a war mongerer.

So after 8years of Bush your going for McCain, a war mongerer and a socialist as you said, simply because you dont know enough about Obama? So your letting these right wing conspiracies guide you into who you vote for? You know what? that sounds like somebody giving into all this fear mongering and propaganda, heck it worked out for Bush in 2004, why aint I surprised its working again... Im real sorry you vote that way.. I guess ignorance is bliss. As for Obama he will end the war in Iraq which is costing the tax payer $200million a day and he will end the Bush policies, the policies that guided the US to this point. If you want to travel this failed path simply because you "dont know" anything about the other candidate (and you refuse to be impartial) your giving into the neocon agenda my friend.

Obama on the other hand hides his true feelings, he is good at fooling everyone.

Care to reference as to what true feelings? I mean his expressed plenty in his book, you know the one he completed before he considered running for POTUS, maybe you should check it out. Obama isnt trying to fool anybody, all I see are these righties trying to fool people with these smears. You know Bush was good at fooling people, as for McCain, well he doesnt do a good job of it.

Oh a republican-basher I see.

With all these smears coming out about Obama and these insults against anybody who supports him your damn straight Im going to defend what I believe in. Just over this month we saw a flood of threads insulting Obama supporters as sheeple, that somehow we'r mentally disturbed, that our votes for the man are as a result of white guilt or because his black, real pathetic attacks by a bunch of fear mongering righties, nothing to do with the issues. There are plenty of Democrat bashers here and this thread is a pure example, yet you turn a blind eye to this fact right? It only takes a few members to grow up, until then i will counter such insults.

Well, party division lines are stupid. Republican party, Democrat party, they are basically the same with the same agenda. They are called Demopublicans for a reason. Both parties are corrupt to no end.

Yes, I hear this all the time, especially from some Ron Paul supporters, yet these same people go behind curtains and make all kinds insults towards Obama supports and other liberals. "Division lines" seem to be pritty real to these hypocrites. If your going to defend Bush policies, dont you think thats... well.. hypocritical?

McCain is a huge liberal, he would fit much better in the democratic party. The only issue he is conservative on at all is taxes. That's why he's such huge friends with Feingold and Lieberman, both democrats, and will probably choose one of them as his running mate. And being that the republicans nominated McCain, is basically says most of them are huge liberals too.

Im sorry my friend but McCains voting record is 87% within Bushes voting record, the closest McCain ever stood to being liberal was back in 2000 however since then he turned more towards Bushie. McCain intends to continue Bush policies and Bush wars if he is elected POTUS, this whole "his a liberal" myth stems from a bunch of disgruntled limbaugh listeners who wanted Romney, the corperate king, instead, theres just no way of satifying them... McCain is just another neocon and right now Lieberman appears to be kissing his ass for the VP position, so much for being an "independent".

So much conservative-bashing these days

Well it was back in the early 2000s that you were considered "unpatriotic" or "anti-american" if you opposed the Iraq war and conservative policies. Yes to be a conservative and a Bush supporter was the "in thing" during that time... When people began to wake up to the real truth behind Iraq, the Bush administration and the economy, naturally they became angry. Really who should we blame? The democratic controlled congress that got elected a year and a half ago? Please... You also forget the flood of anti-Obama threads over this month, maybe that explains the kind of attitude your encountering. It goes both ways eh.

but you all haven't had a true conservative president for quite a few years, even before many of us were born. So you don't realize how good a conservative is needed for this country right now. All you've had for the past 8 years is Bush who calls himself a conservative but he's only conservative on 3 issues and liberal on all other issues.

Excuses excuses and more excuses! the republicans were so damn happy with Bush back in the early 2000s however it became apparent howmuch of a disaster his presidency had become and now his not a conservative anymore! I hear these kinds of excuses all the time...

Conservatism makes for a better government 99% of the time.

Yes it sure did this nation good didnt it?


[edit on 30-6-2008 by southern_Guardian]

Now, since the Dems took control, the market has taken a nose-dive with scandals at the top of it all.

Where the F@@@ have you been the past 8 years bush has been the president and had both the house and senate for a period of time and our economy is in the tank. with clinton we actually had a budget surplus

Read about the recent scandals involving Senators Conrad and Dodd. The Boston Globe did a great piece on the whole thing, including Obama's involvement with rampid scandals in his Chicago District that afforded major kick-backs to himself and slumb lords like Tony Rezko.

Dodd and Conrad got maybe half to 1 percentage better deal on their loans, they saved a little money in interest are you serious! this is supposed to be a huge scandal. MCcain has not paid taxes on his summer home in over 4 years. His home is now in default because he has not paid taxes. in response to rezko that was years ago when he was connected to obama and I guarntee mccain has worse donors connected to him

reply to post by obamafan14


You have been given proof...

You have been shown the timeline...

Everything that indicates Obama has Socialist ideals currently has been placed before you...

If you support Obama, you support the Socialist Ideal and that is fine as it is your right to support Socialism if you so choose.

The one point I would like to bring out is the difference in the "style" of the person supporting Obama...

I don't believe I have posted anything like this...

I suggest you may think about killing yyourself because you have dishonored yourself, conservaties and America.

Or this

Take your head out of your A$$ and look at the facts. U

If you can't attack the message, (Obviously you can't) attack the messenger..

If this is indicative of the actions and expressions of Obama Supporters, then once again I am assured I am on the right side of things...

Semper

Obama to McCain.

I always repected McCain becasue he bucked the GOP and wasn't interested in all that fundamentalist Christian crap.
That is an unacknowleged schism in the GOP. On one side you have the blind faithful and on the other you have cold calculating statisticians. For a number of reasons these groups ultimately fall on the same side of a number of issues, but for VERY different reasons.

Obama. Out the gate I was a full-on Obama supporter. My thinking was, "any hope for new blood and house-cleaning on Capitol Hill trumps any other interests."

When it comes to the majority of Obama's ideals, only a fool would argue.
But as time passed, Obama's rhetoric remained at the abstract level. In hearing his rebuttles to statements from Clinton and McCain, all I was taking away was that Obama seemed to be hoping for or counting on a dramatic and drastic shift in the American psyche.
As specifics emerged about energy policy changes, Obamas strategies all seemed to remain in the ethereal. Great ideas. But wholly impractical in the time-frames allowed by our political system. Eight years in an economic slump is not a favorable situation to enact an "enlightening" of the masses.
The man is brigh, handsome, young and idealistic. But as time wore on his inexperience was showing. Lack of realistic understanding of how actual politics operates. And then his backers. They're not new. Obama may just be a puppet, then for some of the same old players.

Obama criticized McCain for a reversal of opinion in off-shore drilling. When McCain voted against off-shore drilling, I was against off-shore drilling. When McCain recently supported off-shore drilling, I supported it too. If the man was incapable of changing his opinion about something as new situations arise that would be bad. I changed my mind too, yet I am a consistent advocate for environmentalism and put my money into it.

Energy. Obama, ideologically correct, but unreaslistic.
Energy. McCain. Depressing, but doable.

Obama made a HUGE mistake with me when he talked tough about Iran. There was a golden opportunity for the man to show that he was really DIFFERENT. He could have stressed diplomacy and international censuring...and left the military option off the table. But he didn't.
Why not? Afraid of appearing "weak?" Major point loss with me. Major.

Campaign finance. Obama totally reversed his stance. His campaign was supposed to be the "even-footing" campaign to contend with McCain with an equivalent campaign funding account and show that he didn't need big liberal donors to win. But them his accountants showed him how much more money he would have than McCain if he would only relinquish to private funds... and the old "end justifies the means" justification came in.
Another major credit loss with me.

Then McCain. I've been waiting and waiting foir him to finally make overtures of complicity with fundamentalist Christians. He has not. The temptation is great. But as far as I know, that part of the GOP still dilkies the guy. And I love that.

Obama's a kid. He's probably screwing over his people at home by running for president and not being in Congress championing their local interests. Newbies have to put in the time.

McCain. Old school. Yes. But he's always been a pain. He has worked diligently on issues of great importance, that don't make for interesting press. Campaign finance reform. It is of the utmost importance to our electoral system, but isn't very sexy.
He bucks the powers in his own party. He is sincere and has a long credible history of really sticking to his guns.

Oh, Obama. How I wanted to say to the world: "Look at our beautiful, humanitarian, progressive Excecutive!! He is strong, kind and willing to rattle the system with Love!!"
But no. You failed me. What happened to "no war?"

reply to post by AuntieHosebag


Just a friendly advice: you got to lay off caffeine in any form. Out of your entire blurt, can you concisely formulate your point? What I gathered is that ALL conservatives are brainless and sex-deprived. Is that all what you were trying to say? Such Shakespearian emotions deserve an applaude at the looney-lefty scene!

I think a good ol' quote is in order.

The goal of socialism is communism. --Vladimir Lenin