Nice post memoryshock, you've done well to highlight something in our society that is essentially an uncontrollable force that is shaping society in an entirely chaotic manner.

My greatest fear over this matter is that the advertising agents aren't actually involved with any actual mind-control experiment (that they know of), and that they are merely the un-witting pawns in a far greater experiment of which they themselves are the subjects of.

An opponent who considers himself innocent is perhaps the most dangerous opponent i can think of.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
My greatest fear over this matter is that the advertising agents aren't actually involved with any actual mind-control experiment (that they know of), and that they are merely the un-witting pawns in a far greater experiment of which they themselves are the subjects of.

I agree whole heartedly on this point and am both disappointed that it hadn't occurred to me and that you saw fit to bring it up...

I do not think that the majority of advertising employees realize what exactly they are doing, but at the same time, I don't think that all of them are ignorant to what they are doing.

That said, they are still human and are probably susceptible to the same strategies that they are propagating and encouraging.

Edward Bernays probably taught many of them how to manipulate the masses through emotional response media.

It doesn't surprise me one bit.

No doubt you're referring to something more sinister and highly advanced.

As for the obvious though, I believe there was some ruling or law suit about certain types of comercials aimed for children? preparing them as future consumers? Certain unhealthy products and toys on channels kids usually watch?

I was always annoyed about the volume going up during comercials and have since learned to use the mute during comercials most of the time.Most recently within the past few years were the Head-on and Geico comercials that trained me.

Years ago it was the cigarette comercials with their false advertising.

Today it's food and drinks or one I can't have anymore....Beer.

I haven't any doubt they've used some type of mind control and seduction techniques.

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
Although of course, it's this kind of thinking that makes one worry just how far-reaching the implications go.

That is a wonderful question.

I like to see it as an analogy to military hierarchy. People do what their superiors are told.

I am not certain the vetting process to becoming an advertising employee/exec, but I sincerely doubt that there is any 'subversion' in the process.

They see it as a business, I would think. The bottom line. An analysis of what has worked in the past with regards to an ongoing analysis of the burgeoning technologies (internet, Tivo with regards to the 'fast forwarding through commercials).

It's a depersonalization of the individual in that if their 'formula' works to increase the business done by the client, then a business win-win situation has occurred.

And I think the key term is "depersonalization".

These days, a concerted effort to focus oneself with the success of our fellow human is in actuality only a ploy to better gain the interest of the unaware. Which is unfortunate.

We now have to consider the fact that morality is merely a side bar and pacification at that.

Boggles my mind, to see and experience what people have and can do but still have the gumption to spout, "I'm for you, man."

It's ludicrous. And used in all aspects of our media. Public Relations is a joke because the very people who are telling our leaders how to present themselves are the very people versed in how to manipulate a perspective.

And it is all not a tandem effort to explicitly control our thought processes...rather, it is a collective effort to "save face".

People wonder why we have difficulties in communication...it's because there are people actively subverting communication and attempting to garner cooperation without rational discourse.

And the scary part is, as you stated, they are doing it in the name of corporate interest. It is likely that in many cases, they do not know what "rational discourse" means...or are unwillingly to utilize the strategy as 'non-cost effective'.

I highly recommend the documentary "Century of the Self." It's from BBC and plastered all over the net. YouTube and Google video.

It talks about Edward Bernays and how they used to manipulate people's unconscious desires through media. Bernays was the nephew of Freud.

He basically thought people were stupid and would fall for it. Most do.

Ever notice the current trend of getting people to switch from cash/checks to debit/credit cards? Even Monopoly created a cashless version of the game. The way it's portrayed is that anything but an electronic card holds up lines and makes other people think you take up too much time if you want to write a check. It impresses the emotional response of "hurry hurry hurry."

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Should be careful about distinguishing motive. For example, I notice you emphasize proof -- a hot-button here at ATS, and advocate considering certain issues, possibly leading to behavioral change. Is that not a form of 'advertising'?

Good point. Perhaps we should discuss the amount of sensationalism rampant in our day to day lives and wonder whether or not a scientific and neutral title would garner any attention...

As well, I have considered substituting the term "evidence" for "proof"....though I think that extrapolative efforts necessarily requires the term "proof"...

But that is in and of itself an interesting topic...

As for distinguishing motive..that is an interesting thought. Perhaps I should say that the various propagators of advertising are wittingly or unwittingly exasperating the points of consideration of the common man...to the point that a dilution of consideration regarding intentional thought has been made impossible, i.e. Wake up to fill in the blank coffee brand, go to work and focus on pre determined tasks, lunch at fill in the blank common feeding ground, spend evening time with pre-determined routine/popular venting point.

Cynical, to be sure, but I would venture to state fairly accurate...

[edit on 29-6-2008 by MemoryShock]

Hey Memoryshock, great thread!

It is easily established through data that advertising has a direct impact on consumer behaviour.

Advertising operates to undermine an individual's faith in themselves. It works by creating a problem in the mind of a potential consumer then offering a solution (being the advertised product).

Usually the underlying message is that the consumer isn't good enough as they are, they aren't a good parent/attractive to potential partners/etc.

Ongoing exposure to advertising operates to undermine individuality.

The scary part is that almost all commercial material: TV shows; movies; magazines, pop music, are in themselves a form of advertising.

Restricting advertising harmful products to children helps, but the reality is that as long as kids (and adults) are exposed to commercial media they are voluntarily exposing their minds to a very effective and well-funded form of mind control.

Originally posted by Ian McLean

Should be careful about distinguishing motive. For example, I notice you emphasize proof -- a hot-button here at ATS, and advocate considering certain issues, possibly leading to behavioral change. Is that not a form of 'advertising'?

My perspective on that matter is that we are all capable of deciding for ourselves which path leads to the truth, and for some people who decide that they don't need to discover the truth, that is their truth - They are simply too self-centered to care about why this pointless suffering has been brought down upon humanity for thousands of years.

There is a difference between discussing something, where one can point out a flaw in a person's reasoning or advance on a point, and watching a t.v advertisment where you really have very little say in the way that the product is being advertised.

Of course advertising works or else it wouldn't be so omnipresent. Do you have a particular axe to grind with ads or just want to vent about them?

As much as I hate most ads myself, they have a reasonable role to play. If you own a product, how are you supposed to sell it without giving people information? Taking it a step further, a smart salesman knows to appeal to various aspects of the human condition according to the circumstances required, so they use applied psychology to increase sales.

Subliminal advertising is devious and there are laws against it in most countries, but of course as technology increases we will see many new techniques aimed at invading our headspace. This is the catch of living in a consumerist society. But while the money is still in your pocket, YOU are still in control. As the saying goes, caveat emptor.

* I should disclose that I have a University degree in Marketing
This post brought to you by all the new Shar_Chi Lite - twice the ride with only half the guilt!

Mind Control, no, Brainwashing, yes. I could tell you all what kind of brainwashing the media is doing but then you would all be quick to call me a racist... but in fact that would only illustrate my point of the brainwashing, so quick to use the word "racist", because that is what they have instilled into you. If someone doesn't agree with their program, the person must be a "racist"... shun him!

You will be assimilated.

I despise the premise that says I cant search out and choose the products I want myself. I want to live in a world in which all products are availible and we all know how and where to get them if we want them without constantly being hassled and coerced into buying something I dont need or want.

Anybody not know how or where to get a can of coke? I doubt it. If I want coke I´ll just go down to the shop and get it. What is the necessity of plastering the trademark all over the (otherwise beautiful) landscape, having it pop up on my computer screen, connecting it to sportspeople and superstars, associating it with tunes, tones, songs and emotional arousal and basically just shoving it in my face without my permission.

Sinister...is the only word that comes to mind.

I know it goes deeper, but I had to rant for a minute here.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Sinister...is the only word that comes to mind.

I know it goes deeper, but I had to rant for a minute here.

I think the word sinister does a lot to explain your feelings on the matter, and it also serves to explain just how deep and subversive (on the part of the people in charge) advertising can be.

You could have mentioned going to the cinema as well, now that i think about it.

Two days ago i spent about 40 minutes waiting to watch the new indiana jones film, and that time was taken up by having big-screen advertisements forced down my throat in a manner i found truly disturbing.

It would seem that whenever a human is present at a monitor or t.v screen, that human must be exposed to some advertisement or other.

Infact, i do believe the only way to get away from advertising would be to become a hermit.

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Perhaps the real force behind this is a consumerist society, that places all that can be made desirable at the same moral level.

There ya go. It is our society and the materialistic value system programmed into it that make manipulating others to your own benfit an admirable quality. It doesn't matter if its religion, politics, or business (which are all really the same thing). The goal is power and control over those you would feed on, use, or profit from.

In a very basic sense, in our twisted society, it's really about how much of someone else's energy (work, thought, wealth) you can control, by whatever means (political, philosophical, economic) you can.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
Do you have a particular axe to grind with ads or just want to vent about them?

Actually, despite my disdain for many forms of advertisement, this thread was meant to point out that mind influence(control) is occurring everyday right underneath our noses. For being a conspiracy website, we still get caught up in looking for the exciting story and smoking gun conspiracies that prove we have been lied to and exposes the bad guys.

But on a more fundamental level, we can see that every day there are many forms third-party, non-interactive communications that are designed to excite the individual and associating that excitement with a specific product...in the hopes that the association will be enough to get the individual to spend money on said associated product.

That is evidence, very strong evidence, of "Mind Control".

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
If you own a product, how are you supposed to sell it without giving people information? Taking it a step further, a smart salesman knows to appeal to various aspects of the human condition according to the circumstances required, so they use applied psychology to increase sales.

At t[he expense of objective reasoning. How many times does a person buy something that they do not need. Further, How many times does someone buy something that they didn't know that they needed/wanted until they saw it ...amidst a catchy jingle and bright, vivid imagery.

I would venture to state that the person is more attracted to the catchy song and the demonstrated happiness of the humans depicted in said imagery than the actual product itself.

That's my point.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
But while the money is still in your pocket, YOU are still in control.

To an extent I would agree, but in many cases, I think that you may find people who aren't in control of their cognitive awareness, have no objectivity or wherewithal to make valid and constructive consumer decisions.

Kind of like buying Tylenol Extra Strength because the poor sap didn't realize that the Store Brand that cost seven dollars cheaper but is in very boring packaging contains the exact same ingredients. The only difference that seven dollars accounts for is the advertising costs of the product!

I think that the pervasiveness of advertising is at such a point that it is becoming an omnipresent point of awareness and replaces the capacity for critical thinking...even in such mundane circumstances such as deciding what to eat for lunch.

It's as if many of these marketing professionals don't give a rats anything as to the economic viability of the consumer. Just their company. In fact, it is exactly like that...

[edit on 29-6-2008 by MemoryShock]

Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant

Two days ago i spent about 40 minutes waiting to watch the new indiana jones film, and that time was taken up by having big-screen advertisements forced down my throat in a manner i found truly disturbing.

I really hate those ads (although I do enjoy watching the good ones because, well, I'm a big fan of culture, and I love movies), because once I get to the end of the ad reel, I have almost forgotten what movie that I was going to watch!

Right at the end of the ads I just kinda space off and think..."Oh, the ads are over. What was I watching again? Oh yeah, that one movie." I usually don't act like that, but the ads at movie theatres are truly meant for you to just zone out and let the ads wash over you.

Originally posted by Ambient Sound
In a very basic sense, in our twisted society, it's really about how much of someone else's energy (work, thought, wealth) you can control, by whatever means (political, philosophical, economic) you can.

And that's exactly what they want. I have figured out exactly what the unfriendly aliens want to do. Some of you may know about the alien's involvement in the Illuminati, and you wonder, "What do they want with taking over humans?". You may come to a solution, like that they just want us to do slave labor, or they want us to control us, but I have discovered that what they want from us as a race is our ability to do anything and everything. If you know about The Secret, you will know what I am talking about(if you don't, I suggest asking around on ATS about it, and I am sure someone will be happy to tell.). I know for a fact, that the Reptillians cannot process emotion. This is because they do not have the 4th or 5th charkras (if you want to know where I am getting my answers from, don't ask. I am doing this research on a Reptillian that lives within close proximity of my neighborhood, and I have had many mental battles with this Reptillian, also by the many accounts of Reptillians feeding off of human emotion). I have also figured out that in order to use The Secret, you would have to have all chakras in order to use it. So in conclusion, the Reptillians and other unfriendly races have taken it up against us to feed off of our emotion, and power so that they could have it for themselves. It would take a lot of people to feed off of emotions and power for a Reptillian to feel like a human (which is indefinitely what they want) they will finally achieve this by NWO, but for right now they are fending off their hunger with ads.