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Universal Healthcare in US a BAD idea for all (except politicians)

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posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 12:17 PM
With the upcoming election in the US, all the talk about universal healthcare is clouding clear thought and logic. Many seem to jump up and down with excitement without thinking too deply into it.

Why is univerasl healthcare desired? So people feel warm & fuzzy that the uninsured can receive insurance paid for by everyone else...?

Universal Health Insurance would:
1) Create governmant involvement, incompetence & beaurocracy thereby lowering qualiy and increasing expense.
2) Stifle innovation, research & development
2) Lower the quality and availability of healthcare for all but the rich.
2) Create a MUCH greater tax burden for the middle class (the poor do not pay taxes)
3) Create a MUCH greater tax burden for the rich
4) Create a MUCH greater tax burden for ALL business (large & small)
5) Create 2 classes of healthcare services

The Rich: Look to the Provate & Public school systems as the example of what will happen. The same would apply to healthcare plans. The Rich would not stand for sub-par healthcare. Private plans would crop up (and be very expensive) to serve the ones willing to pay.
Everyone else would then receive the government "universal plans" that provide lower quality and levels of service.

Politicians - They would control trillions of dollars funneling through Washington.

The Poor
The middle class
The Rich
Healthcare Professionals
Business of all sizes - Small and Big
The country
The US economy

posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 01:30 PM
To address some of the problems with what you've just stated. The rich should have a much higher tax burden, there rich. The poor, being poor, should have a lower tax burden. Business should pay more taxes, many pay nothing at all do to tricks in the system set up by the same people spoon feeding you this garbage that I keep hearing over an over again. If your business makes a completely ridiculous amount of money, then you can help out by giving some back to the people your robbing to get it. This is common sense, something most American's are lacking unfortunately. If I polled 100 hillbillies 95 out of that 100 would say that they would rather people here died of disease or neglect then not have one more unnecessary military peace of crap that serves nothing but the wealthy to oppress other countries. We waste more then half a trillion dollars a year, and think about that number, half a trillion a year, on weapons to murder innocents, rape women, and smash baby skulls in parts of the world we have no business being in. I am not exaggerating, as someone who has two uncles, two cousins, and have had both grandfathers in the military, all of whom served in war time, specifically WWII, Nam, Gulf war part 1 and 2 and navy seal operations, what I explain is not an exaggeration. We spend more money on murder then many countries have to spend on EVERYTHING in total money.
Don't you find it odd, even depressing, that people here, mostly cowards who don't serve and would protest if they had too, would rather more money be spent on worthless garbage to murder people they know nothing about then ensuring the safety and health of there own people? Would a plan work that would be equatable to all, I don't know, I'm not an economist, but I do know that I would rather try to help then kill, heal then ruin. Rich people that own hospitals and lobbying interests will of course spread propaganda that says how terrible it would be if everyone was healthy and had access to care, because it means they can't own slaves in there high rise buildings anymore, or they cant have a yacht on every continent. It's time we start to act like a civilization and start to spread wealth, health, and happiness to everyone of our real citizens, not illegal criminals who violate our countries laws, who desire it.
Speaking of immigrants, they already have free health care. So to shift there share to real Americans should be a priority as they are shipped back at Mexico's cost. The disabled should not be condemned to die as many Americans believe, until of course there disabled, then they understand, and this ignorance is one of the major hurdles to overcome. People who can't find work or have there jobs outsourced are not "lazy" a every hillbilly and trust fund baby seems to imply, some people have legitimate problems finding work, or are in an area that is depressed. There are only two types of Americans who believe this, trust fund babies who have had everyhting handed to them but think they actually "worked" to get where there at but actually did nothing, and the functioning poor who work at McDonald's or Walmart and talk about there amazing "career" that is open for anyone, without thinking that some people have a wife or family and that awesome $6 an hour without healthcare won't even pay rent let alone allow you to eat.
There needs to be some serious changes and soul searching in this country, and I hope it's done fairly soon, because the country is quickly deteriorating into a complete wasteland of garbage, murder,rape and other disgusting acts of barbarism.

Attempting to make paragraphs unsuccessfully unfortunately
[edit on 6-28-2008 by Ruggeder]

[edit on 6-28-2008 by Ruggeder]

posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 09:53 PM
reply to post by Ruggeder

You don't want government health care. Providers simply will not accept it, which will leave those that have private insurance and cash the best medicine available.

Oh yeah, and should you need a major transplant... since they only do a few of them a year, you'll be going to a country that accepts cash to get it done. Ask Canadians that need a heart transplant... They are just numbers and only a certain number a year get transplants.

posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 10:34 PM
Lets look at the facts. You can start with this study available from the University of Maine I shall let the study speak for itself:

A number of recent studies have compared the health systems of various countries. Using information and concepts from these studies, it is possible to evaluate the health care system of the U.S. and other countries, with respect to such fundamental issues as cost, access to health care, and how well the health system succeeds in producing good health outcomes in a population.

1) COST: The United States has by far the most expensive health care system in the world, based on health expenditures per capita (per person), and on total expenditures as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP).
2) ACCESS to health care: The U.S. is "the only country in the developed world, except for South Africa, that does not provide health care for all of its citizens."
3) HEALTH AND WELL-BEING: There are many different indicators of the overall health status and well-being of a country’s population, but among the most commonly used measures are infant mortality rates, and life expectancy,The infant mortality rate in the United States was 7.2 infant deaths per 1,000 live births. Although this number is a historic low for the U.S., our infant mortality rate is nonetheless the highest among the OECD countries. In 1996, the U.S. ranked 26th among industrialized countries for infant mortality rates. The WHO figures also show that the U.S. ranks very low (24th) on disability-adjusted life expectancy among high-income OECD countries.

We have a confusing hodgepodge of private insurance coverage based primarily on employment, along with public insurance coverage for the elderly (Medicare), the military, veterans, and for the poor and disabled (Medicaid, which varies greatly in its implementation across states). Such a "non-system" creates serious gaps in coverage. And as insurance rates rise, more and more employers are forced to either drop their insurance benefits altogether, or to raise premiums and deductibles.

My father was a Canadian doctor who moved the US to get away from "socialized medicine". After a year he returned saying he could not practice medicine in a place where he had the ability to treat a suffering child and was not allowed to because their parents could not afford it. As he put it, medicine for sake of profit placed him in continuous violation of his Hippocratic Oath. So he took a cut in income in order to return to Canada and be free to practice medicine.

Before you reject the notion of Universal Health care, educate yourself about what goes on in other countries beyond the scare stories of the insurance companies (who stand to loose those wonderful profits) and their paid for political mouthpieces. I live in Canada now and find it amazing that here a major illness does not mean financial ruin.

As for the fact that there are wait times for certain kinds of treatment, sure that is true and is something that many people are pressing for change on, but you have to remember that when everyone who needs treatment can get it, you may have to wait. In the US, the lines are shorter because only a few people can afford to stand in line for the treatment -- the rest are written off by the system because they are not profitable enough for treatment.

In spite of the honest criticism of the Canadian system -- it's not perfect, if you ask Canadians if they would give up what they have for a US style system, the answer is overwhelmingly NO!

Educate yourself. Is it reasonable to assume that those getting rich off of the current system are going to give you both sides of the story?

[edit on 29-6-2008 by metamagic]

posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 01:09 AM
the bes6t take i've seen on this topic was--"du u really want gov't healthcare------look at our current situation with soldiers,,,,they're suffering,, being ignored and totally screwed-----and these are supposedly our most important,,,,heroic and deserving individuals and look at the care they're recieving----now imagine the care us normal everyday folk could hope to recieve!"

this solved this dilemma for me,,,,hell no i don't want gov't healthcare
that statement is so true-----think of all the horror stories we've heard of how our troops are being cared for and treated-----the horrible conditions in that va hospital,,, being denied care because of cost----and these are heroes,,,,what can a nobody,, unimportant everyday joe like me expect!!!

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