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Will 11/4/2008 Be US History’s Most Significant Day Since 12/7/1941?

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posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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I offer YES! I have TWO reasons I regard as of equal importance for the future of America.

Reason No. 1.
The election of John McCain will be the death knell for moderation in America. The rich, the powerful, the greedy and the war-mongers will at last be in full control. But for the brief hiatus of Bill Clinton, it has been twenty-eight years since the 1980 election of Ronald Reagan that these highly motivated backward looking people have held sway in our Federal government. Even if the good don’t die young, they do in time all die. Slowly but inexorably the quality of the once admired Federal bureaucracy is being reduced to a mere shadow of its former self.

McCain’s election would represent the LAST step needed to complete the REAGAN REVOLUTION. John McCain has already WARNED America he will appoint more Federal judges in the mold of John Roberts and Sam Alito. What are the chances whoever is chosen our next president will be able to make one or two very significant appointments between 2009 and 2012?

How many Supreme Court justices are age 70 or older? AJ John Paul Stevens is 88 years old! He was born in 1920. AJ Ginsburg is 75 years old. AJ Antonin Scalia is 74 years old. AJ Anthony Kennedy is 72 years old. AJ Bryer is 70 years old. Without being morbid it seems likely Justice Stevens will retire shortly after the next presidential inauguration. Justice Ginsburg is another who can be expected to step down. Hard right winger AJ Scalia will no doubt hang on if the Dems gain the presidency. AJ Kennedy who is no darling of the LEFT, him voting as often as not with the RIGHT is a likely one to go before 2012. AJ Bryer could consider it a fortuitous time to depart if Barack wins. As could also AJ Souter who is 69 years old. But regardless, it seems to me that at least ONE and more likely TWO members of the Supreme Court ill be replaced in the next president’s term.

If McCain gets his way, the already neutered case law of Brown v. Topeka and what followed on will be dumped unceremoniously into the wastebin of history. Schools will be back in the hands of racial segregationists and Bible-thumping religious fanatics.

That reactionary deed will be joined as quickly as the RWRWs - the right wing religious wackos - can get a case to the High Court for it to set aside the Roe v. Wade case and end the RIGHT OF CHOICE it stands for. A RIGHT of choice is not part of the religious right wings agenda for America. Au contraire. Most of the rules of law that make America a good place to live will be abolished by JUDICIAL FIAT; that same judicial activism the RWRW has for so long denounced! Their credo: Left activism BAD, right activism GOOD.

Reason No. 2.
America will have a singular opportunity to not only put 4 centuries of deplorable racism behind us, but it has an opportunity to elect a man who has the real interests of the overwhelming majority of Americans at the center of his psyche. He offers us the best chance for CHANGE (for the better as opposed to GOP's change for the worse) that the country has had for decades. Barack Obama promises to be the UNITER Bush43 lied about in 2000.

That makes November 4, 2008, the most important date in the lifetime of EVERY LIVING AMERICAN!

[edit on 6/28/2008 by donwhite]



+2 more 
posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 11:32 AM
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Can I have whatever drugs you are on?


Seriously, it doesn't matter anymore who gets elected. They are both two heads of the same snake. Dems, Repubs....It doesn't matter anymore. No matter who wins, WE the people LOOSE.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by bismarcksea]



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 11:48 AM
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I realize that we're probably destined to agree to disagree on this issue again, DW...but what the heck...

The Supreme Court isn't supposed to legislate, they are there to interpret the Constitution...supposedly as the Framers originally had in mind. Which I admit is rather hard to do, since I doubt the Framers ever imagined the world as it stands today...

I have an easier time with a John Roberts type AJ, than a Souter type AJ...I'm almost positive we're going to disagree on that...

November 4th, 2008 is easily the second most important date in American history in my lifetime, second only to September 11th, 2001, and that not by much. On that we agree.

The makeup of the Supreme Court is of huge importance...we agree again. Infact, I'll be so bold as to say it may be the single most important issue that gets little to no coverage. I am in favor of a bit less in the way of legislating from the bench, in fact, make that much less.



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 02:11 PM
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reply to post by Seagull
 



November 4th, 2008 is easily the second most important date in American history in my lifetime, second only to September 11th, 2001, and that not by much. On that we agree. The makeup of the Supreme Court is of huge importance...we agree again. Infact, I'll be so bold as to say it may be the single most important issue that gets little to no coverage. I am in favor of a bit less in the way of legislating from the bench, in fact, make that much less


I dunno Mr Seagull. The “best” I can say about the Nine Eleven Event is that misguided American foreign policy since 1948 inspired and contributed mightily to its happening. I’d give that aspect credit for at least 51% of causation.

Next, since that tragic day we have been on a carefully orchestrated and endlessly demagoged trip into self pity land like the world has never seen. Let's compare. The Christian Children’s Fund says 27,000 children die very day from lack of food. Starvation. And diseases exacerbated by malnutrition. This has been going on for years. Who recalls the exact date of the Boxing Day Tsunami? 230,000 Dead. I’m sorry, but I see no equivalency in the Nine Eleven Event except our exaggerated sense of our self importance. Hubris to put it in a word. (Boing Day 12/26/04)

Too many Americans are content to let the 'West of the Pecos' cowboy the Supreme Court designated to be our president claim hidden insights and flashy willpower equal to the task. Not so. He snorted too much white powder in his youth. This is not the first shot in the battle of Armageddon. It is not a prelude to the RAPTURE when Bush43 and VP Cheney and Herr Rumsfled and George "Smiley" Tenant will be called HOME to be in the Bosom of Abraham. It is instead the case of the blind leading the blind.

Oh yes, it's 4,113 US KIA as of today. 6/28/08. $600,000,000,000.0 in lost treasure. It will cost us $200,000,000,000.00 more to get OUT of Iraq and Afghan. That's $32,000 for every man, woman and child in Iraq. Thank You George. I understand now why your friends all call you “Dumbya.” icasualties.org...

[edit on 6/28/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by donwhite
 


Great doesn't necessarily equate to good, DW...

We've always agreed that the US hasn't always put its best foot forward in regards to foreign policy. Only slightly less than blindingly obvious...

Your command of hyperbole is, as always, impressive. But also, as usual, the actual truth is somewhere in the middle of your truth, and the truth the PTB would have us believe. That all sides of the issues have much to blame themselves for...

In terms of global impact, are you seriously telling me that 9-11 isn't an important event? It lead directly to the overthrow (rightly or wrongly) of two governments. In terms of deaths, no the Boxing Day Tsunami is much more impressive, yet as tragic as it was in terms of global impact over the next decade or so which is the more "important".

Carefully orchestrated, huh? You're not going to tell me it's all about oil or something like that are you? Afghanistan was about vengeance, pure and simple, if we helped the Afghani's so much the better. Iraq? That's a little murkier 'tis true...oil does indeed factor in, I have to ask, why is that a bad thing?



posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by seagull
 



Great doesn't necessarily equate to good, DW ... Your command of hyperbole is, as always, impressive . . as usual, the actual truth is somewhere in the middle of your truth, and the truth the PTB would have us believe.


I cannot deny your charges, Mr S/G, but OTOH I don’t want to go the a ***t throwing contest in a pickup truck when my opponent is bringing a tri-axle load.



In terms of global impact, are you seriously telling me that 9-11 isn't an important event?


Yes. I’m telling you on the scale of things it is NOT important. It is important only because America’s leader has nurtured our anger at our pride being tickled by a towel head. We got mad as H*** when 18 of our soldiers got killed by illiterate Somalia gangsters. Our then sitting president realized the LOSS we were about to take there did not EQUAL the GAIN there was to make in Somalia. We took our beating, the Prez gave out some CMOs and we came home.

The only difference between Somalia and the Word Trade Center was the sitting Commander in Chief who decided to make it his cause celebre. The WTC prez has capitalized on - say nurtured - our sense of patriotism which allowed him to lead us down the primrose path of a radical and ill-informed brand of domestic conservatism coupled with dangerous international jingoism.



It lead directly to the overthrow (rightly or wrongly) of two governments. In terms of deaths, no the Boxing Day Tsunami is much more impressive, yet as tragic as it was in terms of global impact over the next decade or so which is the more "important."


The Nine Eleven Event was IMPORTANT to Americans, but it is not important to the rest of the world. We ARE the proverbial “bull in the China shop.” We MAKE everything important to the rest of the world.

Our government IS supremely powerful in military terms, but INGLORIOUSLY weak in knowledge and understanding of others, intolerant in cultural differences, and lack the ability to cooperate with countries we regard as our INFERIORS. “If you are not with us, you are against us” is the best our Maximum Leader can offer. He sees the world in black and white. And the US has atom bombs to back it up. If you lived in Iran you would be DUMB not to worried!



Afghanistan was about vengeance, pure and simple, if we helped the Afghani's so much the better. Iraq? That's a little murkier 'tis true ... oil does indeed factor in, I have to ask, why is that a bad thing?


It’s bad because there is more than one way to skin a cat. As of July 4, 2008, America has suffered 4,113 KIA In Iraq. 314 KIA of Coalition Forces. icasualties.org...

In Afghanistan, first called Operation Enduring Freedom then the International Security Assistance Force: Total, 767 KIA as of June 28, 2008. Breaks down to “468 American, 110 British, 85 Canadian, 25 German, 23 Spanish, 16 Dutch, 14 Danish, 12 French, 12 Italian, 7 Romanian, 5 Australian, 5 Polish, 3 Czech, 3 Norwegian, 3 Estonian, 2 Portuguese, 2 Swedish, 1 Finnish, 1 Hungarian, 1 Lithuanian, 1 South Korean.”
en.wikipedia.org...

Two disagreeable factors stand out in these casualty lists. First, that the nations of the world regard Afghan and Iraq as an American adventure. Most of those nations have only TOKEN forces at risk. We have no idea what pressure and how much we paid to get the COALITION OF THE WILLING assembled.

The Turks “leaked” that Bush43 offered them $6 b. to allow US forces to assemble in the south of Turkey to invade Iraq from the north as well as from the southeast corner next to Kuwait. The Turks said “NO” and it was said the US upped the ante to $12 b. which the Turks said “NO, not at any price.”

We learned when the Filipinos pulled out that the US had sent in Special Ops Forces to aid in their long time war against Muslim guerrillas in the Philippines. (Since 1902). There were other quid pro quos as in the case of Japan which pulled out when the US could not provide security for their small contingent. The Japanese PAID the insurgents NOT to attack them as they pulled out.

I said all of that just to remind that from causality lists I deduce that the US asked for Collation Forces but our government gave “private” assurances their men would not be put in HARMS WAY.

I cannot think of a more despicable thing a government could do. I have no qualms believing Bush43, VP Cheney, Herr Oberfuhrer Rumsfeld and the Birmingham Songbird Condi Rice, have not done this exactly. You see, I can never overlook the fact Bush43 signed 154 Death Row Execution Warrants in 6 years, one dead man every 2 weeks on average. Any man who can do that can do anything.

Second. We promised Afghan $20 b. in aid to cooperate with us in our hun for Osama bin Laden which Bush43 has abandoned. We have delivered about $6 b. and have lost credibility in Afghan due to that unfulfilled promise. Americans are ill disposed to hear bad news. We are a good news culture. It falls to me to remind happy go lucky Americans that although Afghan has been invaded 100s of times, it has NEVER been conquered.

We hand picked Mr. Karzai in Afghan. We have adopted Mr Musharraf in Pakistan as our man. We have set up Mr Maliki in Iraq as our man. In other words, we are now fighting to have OUR hand picked man installed ore retained as the RULER of those 3 countries.

We have created circumstances that allow Afghan to become the major competitor to Columbia in ILLEGAL drugs. Heroin versus coc aine! Wow. What a FACILITATOR we are. We’ve actually had troops on the ground in Columbia since 1989 and we still cannot slow the production of coc aine. We have had troops on the ground in Afghan and cannot halt or even slow the growth of poppy! Why is the definition of an idiot a person who does the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome?

We have spent $600 b. in Iraq and Afghan. We have 30,000 soldiers who will need some medical care the remainder of their lives. Probably 500,000 who will need some medical care related to their service in those theaters. We will need $200 b. to replace our mechanical rolling stock. Before we can extricate ourselves from Afghan and Iraq we will spend at least $200 b. and maybe al lot more. It’s easy to see how we can say we have expended or committed national treasure of $1.2 t. in this BUSH43 War on Terror.

It did not have to go this way. But this way fitted into other grandiose plans harbored by the Reagan Neo Cons. And our president was too poorly informed to be able to ask the HARD questions when those needed to be asked. Bush43 made no changes until the ‘06 election threatened HIA grand war plan.

To offset the ‘06 Bush43 concocted THE SURGE which had as its real goal to get him past September ‘07. Once he got past that date, the structure of our government makes it impossible for the will of the people to be carried into effect. Indeed, the ‘06 vote had NO effect on Bush43 at all and will have none now. He is COMMANDER IN CHIEF until January 20, 2009, and Iran lives in fear of that.

That’s why I’m agitating for a THIRD constitutional convention to meet in Philadelphia in 2009 to re-write our fundamental document. We cannot survive the 21st century with an 18th century system of governance.

[edit on 7/4/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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Well, now. I have a few spare moments, so let me take a shot at this.

Pearl Harbor was a transformative event. Our society was rather rudely jolted out of its isolationsishm, and the nature of Federal power was changed. U.S. foriegn policy would never be the same again.

9-11, as we now call it, was also a transformative event. Our society did think of itself as 'safe' before that event. We no longer think of ourselves in that way. Federal power has been transformed. U.S. foriegn policy wil never again be the same.

These wo events are similar in magnitude. Each is a political failure, with far reaching military consequences. The plots for each were carried out in secrecy. Both relied on the element of surprise, and American complacance. In eitehr case, the attackers under estimated the scope and scale of our response.

9-11 is worse than Pearl Harbor in one respect. Congress would have never consented to the Patriot Act in 1942. FDR would have never considered the creation of a Department of Homeland Security. The military Commissions Act would have been considered unlawful by the Supreme Court of the day.

I think these events are "equal" in terms of historical weight. Americans were spied on during World War Two. Let's not forget that Japanese Americans were unlawfully imprisoned. The FBI had the same kind of power that DHS has today, which did include the suspension of Habeus Corpus.

What's the difference between these two events? Duration. The events of Pearl Harbor and the subsequent spike in Federal authority did eventually peak. The events of 9-11 and the continuing growth of Federal power show no signs of slowin,g or stopping.



posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



These two events are similar in magnitude. Each is a political failure, with far reaching military consequences. The plots for each were carried out in secrecy. Both relied on the element of surprise, and American complacence. In either case, the attackers under estimated the scope and scale of our response.


Twelve Seven and Nine Eleven similar in magnitude? No. Similar only in the number of KIA. The loss of a downtown office center posed no risk to our nation’s survival equal to the losses inflicted on Battleship Row that Sunday morning. The battleship was then the creme de la creme Weapon of Mass Destruction.

Although we did not know it that day, those self same battle wagons were passe! The nation’s 4 aircraft carriers that serendipity put at sea that Sunday were tomorrow’s WMDs and would prove to be the agents of our ultimate victory. In the Pacific. The second war of TWO world wars we embarked upon those gloomy days in December, 1941.

I cannot accept political failure as an equal causation in either case. Rather political success or failure in either case is found in the rationality of the response offered by the nation’s leadership. In the one case we had success and in the other case we have had failure. Our present leadership's claim to the contrary notwithstanding it is not just free and democratic countries that are subject to surprise attack. Free or not free, democracy or not, has nothing to do with that. Surprise is purely in the hands of the aggressor. Look at Germany’s invasion of France in May 1940. Look also again at Germany which invaded the USSR in June, 1941. Being a free democracy had nothing to do with the first invasion of France and being a totalitarian state had nothing to do with the second invasion of the USSR. WARNING: It is very difficult to arrive at a proper conclusion when you begin with a FALSE premise.

Complacency is too easy to offer accusatorially. Complacent implies smugness. Satisfied. Or even intentional neglect if that is not for sure an oxymoron. There is nothing wrong with being complacent. We cannot live our life color-coded in RED, on HIGH alert. First off, that’s out and out silly. Secondly, high alert status is subject to the Aesop fable of the boy shouting wolf syndrome. If it becomes common, then it is going to be ignored. Fully half the people in Florida have NO hurricane plan. Including me.

Yes, for sure the attackers of Twelve Seven and Nine Eleven both definitely underestimated our response! In the first case I offer our response was proportional to the threat, but in the second, our response was disproportional to the threat in the extreme. We sustained the first to a good conclusion but we cannot sustain the second to any rational conclusion.



The events of 9-11 and the continuing growth of Federal power show no signs of showing or stopping. 9-11 is worse than Pearl Harbor in one respect. Congress would have never consented to the Patriot Act in 1942. FDR would have never considered the creation of a Department of Homeland Security. The military Commissions Act would have been considered unlawful by the Supreme Court of the day. I think the events are "equal" in terms of historical weight. Americans were spied on during WW 2. Let's not forget Japanese Americans were unlawfully imprisoned. The FBI had the same kind of power that DHS has today, which did include the suspension of Habeas Corpus.


L-U-C-K. In 1933 FDR was inaugurated. In 1933 Hitler was named Chancellor of Germany. Germans were actually more desperate than Americans in 1933. America's currency still had value even if you held none of it. But Germany was cast adrift in the world with not even the most elemental symbol of national stability. A viable currency. I do not hold the Germans culpable for choosing Hitler to be chancellor. It was only later when Germany’s President von Hindenberg died that Hitler named himself Fuhrer! But then was too late. Their fate was cast with a criminal megalomanic. Of course, some Republicans have used those same words to describe Roosevelt.

[edit on 7/8/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 11:22 PM
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I don't dispute any of the post 9-11 failures. I think we've got a lot of bad karma headed our way. Post Bush43 history will most likely be a mess for the next decade, at the very least.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



I don't dispute any of the post 9-11 failures. I think we've got a lot of bad karma headed our way. Post Bush43 history will most likely be a mess for the next decade, at the very least.


I assume the Dems have several SQUADS of TRUTH SEEKERS ready to start work on Jan. 20, 2009, and set to go deep inside the DoJ, DoD, State, the NSC and maybe the CIA and FBI as well, to track down all those wrong-doers who mostly acted out of misguided ideology. The top level leadership OTOH cannot hide behind such lunatic fringe motivation. For them, it was PURE and SIMPLE, all HARD calculations. Perhaps the lower levels of appointees were like checker players while the top levels of appointees were more like chess players? Some things cannot be undone. Like the KIA on both sides, a 21st century re-run of 20th century’s Vietnam. Who wants to learn from history anyway if you regularly converse with GOD?

The delicate balance of power in the Middle East painfully and expensively arrived at post 1922 was busted on March 18, 2003. Admittedly we started on that slippery road in 1948. Injecting European Holocaust survivors into a tradition-based the old Palestine Mandate without consulting or considering the people who already lived there. WOW! Talk about HUBRIS! We will never restore any semblance of a balance of power in the Middle East UNTIL we take the bull by the horns and SETTLE the Israeli-Arab War on terms satisfactory to the Arabs who lived there. Now we have to pay for our grand parents well intentioned folly. Who said "Good intentions ignorantly acted on can bring disaster?"

Iran is jerking our sting again today. July 9. Like the world - note the G8 leaders ignored Bush43 - the world's leaders know America is without effective leadership. And that since November, 2006. Adrift as the world moves on. Well, I say we NEVER had competent leadership but that’s just me. This is one lesson in constitutional law we all need to get a handle on whether you love Bush43 or hate him. This issue will get worse, not better as time moves inexorably forward - a favorite word of Bush43 - forward - to replace his earlier favorite word, ROBUST. ONce everything he did was robust now everything he does is to move forward. Hmm? A new speech writer maybe?

WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS OF HUMONGOUS PROPORTIONS. And we don’t even realize it!

When your much prized - and rightly so - 1787 document hamstrings you in 2008, it is time to REVISE or REPLACE that great work of HISTORY. We are playing with FIRE and we are blindly COMPLACENT as you pointed out in an earlier post Mr J/O. [Caps are mine for emphasis]

[edit on 7/9/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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I do fully expect the "truth squads" to get busy in early 2009. There will be llegitimate investigations...but...the witch hunts will out number the honest efforts. This will happen in spite of those wacky Constitutional safeguards. I have previosuly predicted that he Republican party, as we have known it, will be hunted out of existence. The GOP will lose its political ife, once and for all. when it reformulates, it will not be what we have knwon in the past. It's altogether likely that the party will split in two, with one half taking on a new name.



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



I have previously predicted that he Republican party, as we have known it, will be hunted out of existence. The GOP will lose its political life, once and for all. when it reformulates, it will not be what we have known in the past. It's altogether likely that the party will split in two, with one half taking on a new name.


The Grand Old Party (1856 - 2008?) 152 years. Actually, when you look at political parties, that is a very good run. Although the Dems like to claim founding by Jefferson, they gave up on his theory of government in the Great Depression. 1932. At best then, from 1796, that’s 136 years.

The GOP began giving up on blacks in 1876. The GOP practically excluded blacks by name in a bargain made in hell in 1964 and confirmed in Nixon's 1968 "Southern Strategy." Icon Ronnie Reagan completed the REMOVAL of blacks from the GOP when he opened the GOP's arms to the so-called Boll-Weevils. The ignominious Southern Democrats.

It can be argued the GOP changed to neo con (New Conservatism) after Goldwater. Nixon was the last of the Eastern Establishment GOP to win the presidency. A carry-over. Ford was also an E-E type but he was APPOINTED not elected. Bush41 is either a lazy neo con or a lackadaisical E-E type. You have to drive a stake to see B41 move, intellectually speaking. Bush43 is a neo con without a compass. Or even a Tom-Tom.

The Tom DeLay types (Texas gerrymandering - illegal under Warren/Burger but A-OK under Rehnquist/Roberts). He will be happily joined by Pat Robertson, James Dobson, McCain's favorite, Rev. Hegee, Phyllis Schlafly, Tim LeHaye and others of like ilk - say most of your mega-church super ego types - who will take the Extreme Right with them to everyone else’s pleasure and relief. See Note 1.

That will leave behind the secular fiscal conservative Republicans who were once led by such notables as Herbert Hoover, Tom Dewey, Robert Taft and yes, maybe Dwight Eisenhower. The breakaways neo cons being largely self-aggrandizing megalomaniacs, they will want a NEW name of their own choosing leaving the Grand Old Party free to continue on in what was once a most honorable tradition of Abraham Lincoln.

The Dems evolved in a hard way too. In 1792, the first contested presidential election, it was the Federalist of Washington and Adams versus the Whigs of the other side barely including Jefferson. Whigs also favored a strong central government which was anathema to Jefferson. By the third presidential election, 1796, the new Republican Party of Jefferson was getting off the ground. By 1800, it had added “Democratic” to the Republican name to be known thereafter as the Democratic-Republican Party. Good advertising. Nothing to do with political philosophy.

In 1860, the Dems split into the Northern and Southern wings. Ultimately the Northern Dems faded away to almost none, leaving the Southern PRO slavery PRO terrorism PRO Jim Crow Democrats to carry on. The Dems began at last to breathe fresh air in 1896 when it nominated William Jennings Bryan to be its presidential candidate. Full sunshine burst in 1932 when the Dems wisely chose the crippled man, FDR, to be its standard bearer. And the rest is history. Well almost.

It was not until 1965 when LBJ masterminded the change in Senate rules reducing from 2/3rds (67) to 3/5ths (60) the votes needed shut off debate - cloture - stop a filibuster - that the GOOD Dems began to overcome the BAD Dems. Which brings us to Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton! ONLY the Dems would could give America a choice between a WOMAN and an AFRICAN AMERICAN!

ONLY the Dems.


Note 1.
I do not use the term RADICAL REPUBLICANS as that name has already been taken by some pretty good Americans! Post the 1864 election, the Republicans added to their majority in Congress. After the death by assassination of Lincoln on April 15, 1865, he was shot the night before he died, 42 days into his second term, the Republicans wrote out the Reconstruction Act to administer the "States in Rebellion." Nicknamed “Radical” Republicans by the press, the name has stuck. A program similar to the one used by North Vietnam in “cleansing” the South part of Vietnam post 1975. So I would never dishonor the name “Radical Republicans” for it means a particularly good movement in American history. Not to a group of Bible thumpers I can only label nincompoops with a lot of charity!

[edit on 7/9/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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I read somewhere that it was Washington who made the presidency what it is today rather then just ceremoniously position. In that sense Bush has done a great disservice to the oval office. Bush is and has been more of a figure head then a president . The real players in his admin are or were Cheney and Rumsfeld . Bush is naive and to easily influenced this is proved by the fact he never could or even think about saying no to the Iraq venture .



posted on Jul, 9 2008 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by donwhite
 


1. Gag me with a Masonic trowel.

1.1 Marxists Hillary and Obamma are both MUCH MORE puppets to the elitist globalist puppet masters than even McCain ever thought of being.

2. I have no doubt that ALL the initial 12-16 candidates (with one possible, unrealistic exception) were decidedly in the elitist globalist puppet masters employ. This is the most stacked deck of traitorous clueless satanic idiots our land and the world has ever seen, imho.

3. In terms of global elitist power-mongering that's been in the works 200-400 years . . . it's mostly all over but the details and the shouting. The die is cast. The Biblical prophecies WILL OCCUR AS PREDICTED TO THE LETTER. Even prayer and fasting can only modify things by possibly some slight delay or some slight moderation here or there in very localized areas.

4. The Klintoons were more horrific traitors to all that's decent and good than all the other traitors to the USA's Constitution and welfare since the founding of the Republic combined. Selling nuclear and missile secrets to China for personal enrichment and political power was galactically over the top. And that's just the tip of their black iceberg.

5. Yeah, things are going to change dramatically and for the worst. Obamma or Hillery would both take us to hell at the speed of light if they could in any way do so. At least McCain will likely be somewhat slower in at least a few respects.



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by xpert11
 



I read somewhere that it was Washington who made the presidency what it is today rather then just ceremoniously position. In that sense Bush has done a great disservice to the oval office. Bush is and has been more of a figure head then a president . The real players in his admin are or were Cheney and Rumsfeld . Bush is naive and to easily influenced this is proved by the fact he never could or even think about saying no to the Iraq venture .


I enjoy reading the US Con. It is so short and direct and on the point. Article 1 covers the legislative branch. Article 2 covers the executive branch and Article 3 logically enough covers the judicial branch. Back in the late 18th century, it was thought those 3 divisions represented all the states power in its various manifestations. By the mid-point of the 20th century, people spoke of the FOURTH branch of government and were referring to the Federal bureaucracy. The civil service. I have read that during GW’s first term the number of Federal employees was about 400. And 300 of those worked for Alexander Hamilton in the Treasury Department, so you may see why so little attention was given to the bureaucracy which had grown to 3,000,000 in 1945.

Every educated person who was anyone in the late 18th century - the Age of the Enlightenment - had read the Greek and Roman writers. Everyone knew about the Roman republic. And of course, 90% or more of the (white) settlers in the US in 1770s to the 1790s were of English, Scotch or Irish descent if not first generation immigrants. A homogeneous population. Scotsmen on their way to the New World who got waylaid in Belfast became known as Scots-Irish. It was said to be a coin-toss which was poorest, Scots or Irish.

Scots being Protestant and Irish being Catholic meant trouble which is just about now (2008) being resolved. About 300-400 years. I do hope we can put this religious squabbling to rest quicker in Iraq and Israel? Note I used the Imperial WE meaning the US of A. Note: Sunni is to Islam what Protestantism is to Christianity; Shia is to Islam what Catholics are to Christianity.

Every known country since the Pharaohs of Egypt had been ruled by a king by one name or another. America tried having NO executive officer in the Articles of Confederation. Although the Articles gave from 3 to 7 members to each state based on its population, when it came time to vote each state voted as a unity, that is, had ONE vote. If any state could not agree how to vote, then it did not vote at all. All decisions of the Continental Congress were taken by a majority vote of the states, 7 votes required.

The Articles were written in 1775. The Continental Congress had NO power to tax. Only Pennsylvania paid its levies, and they paid less than half requested. States like South Carolina never paid one red cent! By 1787 everyone knew that system would not work. The Second Constitutional Convention was called to Philadelphia.

Had it not have been for 1) Benjamin Franklin, and 2) King Louis XVI and 3) his unbounded hatred for the English, our Revolution would have died in 1777.

I found it disgusting for our ignorant president to offer to rename French Fries to Freedom Fries when the French disagreed with him. And his sycophant followers as well. Did he not know half the soldiers at Yorktown - the last and decisive battle of the War - were French? That the reason Lord Cornwallis was stuck at Yorktown was because the French fleet was holding the British Navy off shore, thwarting its plan to rescue the British Army? That 80% of our guns and gunpowder came from France and probably as much money to pay the troops and buy the supplies. I suppose ignorance is one kind of bliss but it makes it no less palatable.

I’ve said a lot to ask you to compare the number of details found in Article 1 against those found in Article 2. Yes indeed, it was George Washington’s singular opportunity to make the American presidency into whatever he imagined it should be. You could say Washington more than any other single person MADE the United States of America. On that scale, you must say Abraham Lincoln preserved the United States of America and that Franklin Roosevelt brought its governance into the modern era.

[edit on 7/10/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 10 2008 @ 07:37 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 



1. Gag me with a Masonic trowel.


Because Masons are Protestants and I am a Protestant, I find no fault with nor have any fear of Masons. If it is still ALL white and ALL Protestant, then it should change and open its membership to ALL comers who otherwise meet their high criteria. We no longer can afford racial and religious discrimination.



2. I have no doubt that ALL the initial 12-16 candidates (with one possible, unrealistic exception) were decidedly in the elitist globalist puppet masters employ.


Perchance are you thinking of Dr. Ron Paul? A nice enough fellow but he could profit by some intense psycho-therapy.



3. In terms of global elitist power-mongering that's been in the works 200-400 years . . . The die is cast. The Biblical prophecies WILL OCCUR AS PREDICTED TO THE LETTER. Even prayer and fasting can only modify things by possibly some slight delay or some slight moderation here or there in very localized areas.


C R A Z Y man! Modify the Eternal? Wow! Neither you nor I have ever seen a person who could tell what would happen the next day. The amazing thing is that anyone in the 21st century could even play like the ancients could foretell the future. It would be funny if it was not so serious.



4. The Clintons . .
5. Yeah, things are going to change dramatically and for the worst.


Looks like you have it figured.



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 02:58 AM
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Okay, let's come at this from another direction. If 9-11 is not significant enough to merit comparison to Pearl harbor, what kind of event would be? WAtch those T and C's. Keep this general. What types of events would be par with December 7th, 1941?



posted on Jul, 13 2008 @ 04:16 AM
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Well I disagree with Don I rate 9-11 on par with December 7th 1941 . On a personal level having read a bit about Pearl Harbour in the wake of 9-11 I think that I felt the same kind of hollow shock that people probably felt when they first heard about the attack on Pearl Harbour . Aside from Don reasoning people motives for undervaluing the scope of 9-11 as an event it may stem from a desire for the post Cold War vacuum which saw the intervention in Bosnia as the spear head of US foreign policy.

It pretty much like how according to US history WW1 begins in 1917 and WW2 began on December 7th 1941 . I'm just glad that no one undervalued the attack on Pearl Harbour and the need for final victory against the Axis powers . The nature of warfare has changed since the end of WW2 but this in no way makes the War on Terror less valid .

[edit on 13-7-2008 by xpert11]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



Okay, let's come at this from another direction. If 9-11 is not significant enough to merit comparison to Pearl harbor, what kind of event would be? Watch those T and C's. Keep this general. What types of events would be par with December 7th, 1941?


1) A declared enemy attacked us in both cases. 2) We were caught by surprise in each case. 3) 3,000 KIA were inflicted in each. 4) Americans were generally united in disbelief and anger. I say “generally” because from the first I asked to make inquiry why the WTC and W-DC had been attacked, on the assumption nothing consequential happens by chance. To do this before we undertook a response since the perpetrators seemed to have died in the attack.

But no, that calm, rational and reasonable approach was not in the genes of our Maximum Leader. His presidency was already in trouble. The DJIA was tumbling. The balanced budget and projected surplus was given away to the R&Fs. VP Cheney went into hiding. Not a good sign. Bush43 stayed aloft fearing he might be the target but even then he was thinking too highly of himself. Bush43 turned out to be Osama bin Laden’s BEST friend.

Osama told us he did it for 4 reasons. 1) Infidels occupying the hold sands of Saudi Arabia. 2) Jewish occupation of the Temple Mount, the 3rd holiest site in Islam. 3) American support of and propping up of autocratic Arab regimes. 4) Abusive treatment of Arabs - Palestinians - in Israel. No one bothers to mention this because 99% of Americans have no intention of “fixing” any of the reasons.

I agree ObL’s al Qaeda has been rendered powerless. The anti-West movement amongst Arabs however, seems energized. Were it not for the Persian Gulf oil, we’d have no involvement in Arab affairs. It is amazing how a 6 foot Arab can hide in the Pakistani mountains near Afghan where men rarely exceed 5 foot 6 or 7 inches. All the more when that region is highly tribal and all extended family. Keeping secrets in that region is more difficult than in Langley or Ft. Meade. And with $25 million in gold offered as a reward. (I’m sure in the 2004 election period you could have got much more. Perhaps $100 million, for example).

[edit on 7/14/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 06:09 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



Okay, let's come at this from another direction. If 9-11 is not significant enough to merit comparison to Pearl harbor, what kind of event would be? Watch those T and C's. Keep this general. What types of events would be par with December 7th, 1941?


There are no symmetric powers in the world that have any wish to attack the US, despite our HOPE expressed by many that China or Russia will start a shooting war with us. The best we can do for a shoot’em up war is Somalia or Cote d'Ivoir. Bet we keep trying. The Somalis have already inflicted more pain that we care to bear. What I learned was the Ivory Coast and now is involved in the illicit diamond trade. Is too small for even one of our tactical 10 Kt nukes. No realistic hope for war in either place.

We are in the asymmetric war era. The Hamas and Hezbollah are the best we can do. We murdered Abu Musab al-Zarqawi after he was captured; deja vu for Che Guevara in Bolivia. Saddam Hussein was on trial and making monkey’s of us and the Iraqi. We could not stand another “wise guy” pulling our string.

We did our job well in the 1941-1945 period. We’re the last man standing. But if we look down, we’re standing in a bucket of crap!


[edit on 7/14/2008 by donwhite]



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