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What is change?

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posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 07:50 AM
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I like Obama for his policies but not for how he says we need change. Yes we need a change. A change in policies. Is the word change just a euphemism that he uses to make his policies easier to understand for the general populous? Or is there a hidden meaning behind the word? Please, I'm an Obama supporter, and, I don't even understand what he means by change.




posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 09:31 AM
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He uses the word change to distract.Most of the people in this country want a change from bushs policy.McCain if you notice also uses the word.The change this country needs is really no change at all.It's a return to constitutional government.Obama talks about nationalised healthcare as change.However he doesnot speak of getting rid of the federal reserve which is causing most of our problems.That in turn means he intends to use the federal reserve and tax to pay for this healthcare.What that means for you in change is you'll have healthcare but you will pay for it dearly with more devaluation of the dollar.
He talks about getting rid of lobbiests and on this one he'll show all his voters that he's trying but he'll fail which he already knows.The only way to remove the entrenched corporate government is for the people to force elected officals to uphold thier oaths to the constitution.The constitution was written to hold the federal government in check.So long as the people let thier elected officials ignore the constitution this country will crumble.The only difference between the repubs and dems is the hand they put in your pocket.Bush will,in my opinion,bomb Iran before he leaves office if Obama is elected.Nancy Pelosi is still blocking impeachment and she's among the most liberal dems.Why?Because the corporate government wants war,it's profitable for them as they get the fresh money the fed prints before it's in circulation so the it hasn't been devaluated yet.
So the answer to your question is change for Obama or McCain is just a word to further dupe the masses to vote for them.



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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Obama uses "change" to talk about the dawning of a new way of thinking.

For 7 years (?) we've been war war war war war, afghanistan, iraq, iran, Korea, UK, Burma, Cuba, etc.

VERY little emphasis on home turf.

I believe we should start focusing on problems at home. The rest of the world can handle themselves. Compared to the rest of the world, the U.S. is a teenager on a power trip. Like the 22 year old boss at the new law firm who tells 50 year old men what to do, how to dress, and what to say.

I have trust that Obama will do his best to carry out said changes, but in the event that he fails on one or two - keep in mind that its not just his failure.

If Obama wins, it'll give us a democratic majority in congress and a democratic president.

If nothing "changes" with that, ill never vote for another democrat as long as i live.

But im not being pessimistic, just stating a fact.



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


That is all well and good in theory...

However you are completely ignoring the one single greatest factor against such an "internal politics only stance"...

"Global Economics"

Like it or not the economics of any major country is tied to the economics of all other countries that engage in world trade. You may not like it, but it is what it is. The politics of isolationism will only bring disaster much like the tax policies of the Democrats.

We do not live in the world of Roosevelt or JFK anymore, we live in a world of instant communication, Global Economics and a world wide political dependency infrastructure. While many may argue with this, it does not detract from the truth of it.

Obama's "change" is still largely unknown, but what is known is his past history and that is truly scary when applied to the current economy and world political situation. Anyone that reads his past voting records should truly feel afraid of the future should Obama be elected.

Include with this the FACT that Liberal spending, Liberal Taxation and Liberal BIG Government and this will undermine any strength we have left from the elections in 2006, and you have a cocktail for disaster in American Politics.

Semper



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by Frankidealist35
 


Ask yourself this.....

WHY is it that all of Obama's supporters have to DEFINE what OBAMA means by change???????

Why is Obama NOT telling you what he means by change?

Read all of the threads on here and find for yourself the number of times an Obama supporters says this...

"Obama MEANS"......
"What Obama is SAYING".....
"Obama's CHANGE means"....

I'm sorry but when the supporters feel the need to define a candidates main proposition, that means to me that he is not defining it himself...And that begs the question as to why?

You will find MANY definitions in regards to Obama's change. In point of fact, one for each of his supporters. You will also find much congratulations to each of his supporters when they find ANOTHER definition for change; all while Obama keeps spouting change, with no definitions coming from him...

That is troubling, VERY troubling...

Semper



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 06:23 PM
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with all due respect, semper


you know i love your posts, though im sure you feel opposite of mine, i still have to say this:

obama has already defined his versions of change

That being said

when someone asks me "what does obama mean by change"
im going to give them my opinion.

in a way, yes, its answering for him. But how else can he answer?

I followup on Obama, and i believe i have a good understand of what he's talking about. I base my opinions of his 'change' off of what he's done in the past as well as what he's said he'll do in the future, so i am able to say 2+2=change


i just dont think your broad generalization of Obama's followers is very fair. There are some of us who actually attempt to sift through the non-sense and garbage that MSM floods your TV sets with.



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 



i just dont think your broad generalization of Obama's followers is very fair. There are some of us who actually attempt to sift through the non-sense and garbage that MSM floods your TV sets with.


I was being very fair...

I don't think that Obama is telling you the truth either..

I think that you do sift through the MSM BS, I also believe that your support of this man is genuine, misguided, but genuine...

It's not really about the candidates anyway; it is all about Liberal vs Conservative... (Such that it is with McCain being a RINO)

Liberalism will be the end of this great nation. I am only attempting to delay it long enough for me to die and not have to see it. Obama and his Leftist, Socialist agenda is the death knell for America, if he gets elected. Sadly Liberals don't see that...

And I know, I know, most Liberals will tell you they are "Moderates" or "Progressives" or (I love this one) "Independents" but they are pulling for the single most Liberal/Socialist Candidate possibly America has ever seen... That makes them Liberal no matter what they choose to call themselves...

Whatever label they may go by, it is easier for me to just call them what they are.. Liberal..

The Liberal agenda of Obama will give vastly more power to the government and less to the people.. Liberal Fact

That same agenda will tax corporations out of business and cost the American public jobs and careers...

That same agenda will destroy Americas strong military and make us a nation of appeasers and weak in the world view.. Ripe for another attack...

In point of fact it is the same agenda that the Democrats had in 2006 when they took power over a strong economy, lowest jobless rate in history and well the gas prices speak for themselves...

Now look where we are with the Dems in power just two years....

Two years ago, we had a strong economy, low jobless rate, comparative low gas prices etc and I told all of you to be careful what you wish for... Well you got it....

I'm telling you again...

Be careful what you wish for.. You just might get it...

I was right last time...

Semper



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 09:36 PM
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im saying unfair in this regard:

I support Obama.
But am against abortion

Im against McCain
but for domestic drilling

Im for 2nd amendment

but for me, the choice was easy. Obama vs. McCain.
As i've stated in previous threads, i used to be very anti-obama. I educated myself (not that you havent) and i realized a lot of the reasons i didnt like obama were farce.

That changed my mind.

I now support Obama

So - that could be another definition of change

Obama has the ability to change the mindsets of those around him?

Who knows.


I do know this:
My gut feeling tells me Obama will win. Unless McCain and crew uncover some dirty dirt that i cannot even phathom.

If Obama does win, and he has a democratic congress, then there will be no more excuses for a lack of results from that congress.

I am willing to give that congress a chance. Frankly - i hate Nancy Pelosi with an unequivical passion. But i didnt vote in 2006, so i feel as though i dont have much room to complain.

So - to end my yammering
Im willing to get them a chance to 'change' things. Because its the only choice i've got, and optimisim is the only way i can stay sane.

McCain just scares me.
I can't get over his temperment and disregard for social ettiquette. To me, that says a lot about a person.

But it is just my opinion, after all



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 09:58 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
Ask yourself this.....

WHY is it that all of Obama's supporters have to DEFINE what OBAMA means by change???????


They don't. I don't define what HE means by "change". As Andrew said, he has said what he means... but I do have a few thoughts on change. I made a post about it here.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Oh.. I guess I did forget to mention that Obama has been very clear in one area he wants change...

He desperately wants to change this country into a Socialist state..

Double Talk


It's obvious by his deflected answer (Notice he never addressed the FACT that with lower Cap Gains, the Gov. makes more money) he knows absolutely NOTHING about the system.. Scary...

Clueless on the Economy and he does NOT care about YOU..



Take a harder look people....

This man will DESTROY America

Semper



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 03:49 AM
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i really believe that if obama really had a chance of making changes, that is changes in your country that are for the better. changes that will benefit the lower classes and not the higher class (NB: there are only 2 classes now, those that have $ and those that owe $$$.) the corporate war mongers running your show would have had his skull sprayed in a public display. JFK style.

really he's just another face to pin the blame on when you all get rodgered again and again. it will take more than words and more than one man to change things in your country.

it will take civil war. it will take the entire nation to go SCREW YOU UNCLE SAM
and relieve all the aristocrats of their powers. it will take a coup to fix it.

it means your people will die. die for "the everyone" else who is too gutless and afraid to make the change themselves.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 03:58 AM
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when you as citizens choose to give up "your rights" and die for what you believe in then you will instigate a change, like in your last civil war.

everyone is so caught up in this doing right and being good, cycle that the cycle will do exactly that. go round and round. it is going to take a real bad muther who you will all hate to take over the show and rodger the rodgerers before you realise all you needed was good ol' fashion coup.

and then like ol' abraham lincoln you love him. the bad muther that is.

[edit on 29-6-2008 by spearhead]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 06:47 AM
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This may sound a little cliche to say...

but it's all a lie, and they are all liars.

It's just a suit and tie shake hands and smile charade.

We have no idea who's really running the show.

Maybe we'd hate to know.

Because even though I embrace some alternative theories about who really controls the world, and have had some experiences myself that showed me it (society the way most people percieve it) was all BS... I often think that it would frighten me even more to think that nobody was running the show, and that we're all just fooling ourselves, controlling ourselves, hating ourselves, fearing ourselves. I don't truly think it's a simple explanation.

But I'll now answer your question.

Change is what happens. Words are the opposite of that. Words may inspire change, or we may think they do, but in reality, change happens regardless of whether people talk about it.

Of course we need change. It's what makes existence happen.

EDIT:

By simple explanation... I mean you could just take the "easy way" out and realize that we are all one and this is just an illusion (which as just a concept, it's a little hard to confidently say without the actual experience, so it's not so simple then), and that whatever happens around us in life is a reflection of our own inner turmoil...

But if you're looking for an expressly mundane socioeconomic BS blanket statement like ya know "it's because of crop loss in Namibia combined with OPEC and the Jews and The Dow Jones Average", you're basically not looking deep enough. There are layers. There are those who want money. There are those who want power. Fame. Drugs. Women. Those people are the ones we see. Then there are those who have bigger reasons for doing things. They see this as a spiritually necessary thing to do because for whatever reason, they decide to go messing with forces they have absolutely no idea about, and it consumes them and they actually believe that this is right. Sacrificing millions in bloody combat is okay if it saves the Earth from being destroyed by Hell's Forces. Obviously exaggerating, but here it is. The only truth anyone willing to listen needs to know about politics and governments is that they are never in our best interests, and it doesn't matter if your president is black, doesn't matter if she's a woman, or a very religious person, or a baby kisser, or a yes man, or a complete arrogant prick... they are there to save face. The reason they are recruiting Obama this season is simple. He's black, and ya know they wanna show that America is in the right direction by like reminding people that "we stopped using slaves 150 years ago! Good for us! Look, we even gave a few of 'em mansions and political positions! We're forward thinkers!"

But we're not. How do you know your government is a lie? Simple. By being lied to by your government constantly.

The proof is in the pudding. What if nobody voted this year? That's impossible because people are still led to believe (enter mantra here), but just think of the power we could have as citizens if we stopped fighting about all the petty stuff we do?

There's a simple solution, and that's for us to band together as a human race and not be afraid to say "No, I disagree, and if that means I can't have a Coca Cola tomorrow, I can't have food or water the next day, and I die the day after from a bullet to the head... I'm not afraid anymore. I've been pushed too far, and none of your bull# makes me blissfully ignorant anymore. It just makes me angry!"

Dammit, you've got to get angry! I want everyone in the room... to stand up...stand up now! Stand up and scream "I'm mad as Hell, and I'm not gunna take it anymore!"

Enjoy my most likely fruitless blurb.



[edit on 29-6-2008 by dunwichwitch]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 08:08 AM
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Semper it's clear and quite predictable that you would strongly disagree with Obama's positions on many issues. He's far left and you're far right. Duh. However, he has never said that he wants to make the US a "Socialist" state. That's a fear tactic that the right is using to scare people into not voting for him. He wants to raise taxes on the wealthy. Boo-hoo. He wants healthcare for all people. How terrible! He wants to get us out of this stupid war that we have NOT right to be in. The ONLY way you can turn that into a negative is to say that it's some kind of proof that he is a Socialist. Bah!


Originally posted by semperfortis
This man will DESTROY America


The time for fear tactics is over. Sorry. We're no longer buying it.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


He does not HAVE TO SAY he is a Socialist BH... Of course he would not come right out and destroy his chance for election by admitting what he is...

However

We... ALL OF US... are defined by our actions and his are the actions, words and ideals of a Socialist Regime...

The ultimate goal of the Left to be realized right here, right now....

I have posted Obama making statements on regards to his Socialism..

But there is more.. Lots more...


Barack Obama opted out of public financing, marking the first time a presidential candidate has done so since 1976 and his comments on why he did so have been scrutinized by FactCheck.Org and found to be a "large exaggeration" and a "lame excuse".

We find that to be a large exaggeration and a lame excuse. In fact, donations from PACs and lobbyists make up less than 1.7 percent of McCain's total receipts, and they account for only about 1.1 percent of the RNC's receipts.

Pragmatically his decision is sound but considering his previous position on the exact topic, it is being said that he is going back on his word, his pledge and his ethics.

Wake Up Americans

His word, his Pledge and his Ethics... my oh my


On every major policy front, Obama has declared two things: 1) the exploitation and alienation of labor is the true evil in this country and 2) that increasing the size and scope of Government is the answer.

If this sounds at all familiar, you may remember the central themes of ‘Das Kapital,’ Marx’s famous treatise on the purported realities of capitalism, and ‘The Communist Manifesto,’ Marx’s plan for proletariat payback.

Virginia Virtuicon

Large Completely Controlling Government

Welfare for All who wont work

Free Health Care for the same

Government owned Oil

Government controlled profits

Socialist?

Yeah

Semper




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