Mars Soil Fit for Life, Tests Confirm

WASHINGTON Signs of martian snowfall, avalanches, "dust devils" and evidence for ancient oceans from the Mars Global Surveyor are profoundly changing how scientists perceive the Red Planet.

It's a far cry from the dry and dead world imagined by previous generations.

"The Mars we thought we knew was not the real Mars," says Ken Edgett, a geologist with Malin Space Science Systems of San Diego, California, which built the orbiter's cameras. "I'm personally surprised."
His team, led by Massachusetts Institute of Technology geologist Maria Zuber, measured the plains of northern Mars and found them to be extraordinarily flat.

"It's as if from L.A. to Washington it is so flat that there is only a deviation of 10 meters (32.8 feet)," he said. "That is about as flat as can be."
Such data could provide important evidence that the northern plains in at least some part of Mars' past were in fact oceans. The ocean theory remains controversial, given that water on the surface of Mars today would dissipate immediately into the thin atmosphere.

Mars Weather It's Stranger Than You Thought

There is no doubt in Mumma’s mind that something is going on at Mars. "Mars was wet…was it also alive…or is it now alive?"

But "alive" could be geologically alive and not necessarily biologically alive, Mumma said.

"Or Mars could be biologically alive," he added. "Or maybe both. So to me that’s the real issue. Now we think that Mars is not a dead planet. Even if it’s just geology that is occurring and releasing this methane…that’s pretty darn interesting. And the geologists are very excited about this prospect."

www.space.com...

As you can see i just 'love' my 'anecdotal' evidence....

Your wanting Mars to be alive doesn't breathe Life into it, even with magical incantations such as "life will find a way."

I don't 'want' Mars to be alive any more than you do ( i suppose you would also consider it 'cool'? ) and i just see myself as more to the consideration of the evidence in favor than most.

Stellar

Two Major Points about Mars Public Discourse
1.) The admittance of Life on Mars is implicit in the admission that the soil is earth-like and could be used to grow plants. Earth soil is only the way it is as far as nutrients and general content profile as a result of ONGOING MICROORGANISM ACTIVITY. These processes are the end all of what makes soil -soil and not sand or rock particles. It is organic matter and the matrix with inorganic components. So there's your evidence and admission of Life on Mars
2.) There is, IMO, evidence of previous "interactions" between earth and Mars, be it panspermia seeding or something a little less mundane. Perhaps something really "out there." And I do believe public reaction is a concern for our institutions, still.

So I made a video to help..

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
Well, it goes without saying that the longer we search, the more we'll learn...hopefully. But when discussing the current state of our scientific knowledge of The Red Planet, the glaring fact is that Mars is not alive.

Well since that is attempting to prove a negative you can just go ahead and make a fool of yourself on your own time.

Any counter declaration is pure speculation, at best, and drug-induced fantasy, at worst.

Then i know a whole bunch of NASA people who are high and funnily that might explain a great deal about their contradictory claims.

Determining the release locales for methane on Mars is critical to the selection of future landing sites, "to search for organics that are either biological or abiotic," Mumma said. Finding out whether methane releases are seasonally dependent is also of keen interest, he said.

There is no doubt in Mumma’s mind that something is going on at Mars. "Mars was wet … was it also alive … or is it now alive?"

"Alive" could mean merely geologically alive, Mumma said.

"Or Mars could be biologically alive," he added. "Or maybe both. So to me that’s the real issue. Now we think that Mars is not a dead planet. Even if it’s just geology that is occurring and releasing this methane … that’s pretty darn interesting. And the geologists are very excited about this prospect."

www.msnbc.msn.com...

And i really could go on for a bit...

Perhaps tomorrow they'll find a human footprint on Mars with a trilobite fossil embedded in the heel.

Not sure about the heel print but i do have some interesting 'anecdotes' about fossils on and from Mars.

Until recently, hopes for life on Mars were slim. The Viking landers of the mid-Seventies appeared to show that the planet was barren. But the discovery of peculiar microscopic fossils inside meteorites originating from Mars in the late Eighties and early Nineties once again raised the prospect of alien life.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2004/03/30/wmars30.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/03/30/ixworld.html

Now two separate studies, published in yesterday’s Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, make a strong case for the fossilized life theory and may just put the controversy to rest.

Imre Friedmann and his team of researchers from the NASA Ames Research Center point out that the magnetite crystals inside ALH84001 form chains with gaps between t hem, resembling a string of pearls. These crystal chains are difficult to explain without the presence of life: "Such a chain of magnets outside an organism would immediately collapse into a clump due to magnetic forces," Friedmann explains. The other researchers, led by Kathie Thomas-Keprta of the NASA Johnson Space Center, offer supporting evidence: they note that the magnetite crystals inside the meteorite are both physically and chemically identical to those found in terrestrial magnetotactic bacteria—organisms that use a string of magnetic crystals inside their bodies to navigate, much like an internal compass. If these crystals are in fact remains of magnetotactic bacteria, they are not only definite proof of past life on Mars but evidence of the oldest life ever found. --Harald Franzen

www.sciam.com...

Among the featured guest scientists were Dr's. Matthew Golombeck, Michael Carr, and Jack Farmer. Dr. Golombeck is a geologist and was
Project Scientist for the Mars Pathfinder mission; Dr. Michael Carr is a USGS geologist working with NASA, and Dr. Jack Farmer, a NASA Exobiologist at the Ames Research Center in California.

I had been studying some Ordovician Period rocks I had found along the shores of Lake Ontario. They contained ubiquitous holes on all sides, and were the result of 500 million year old Bryozoans.The Bryozoan fossils were eventually dissolved out of the sandstone matrix by acidic waters percolating through the rock for thousands of years. In many of the samples I collected, there were no body fossils at all - only the holes were they once resided.

On a coffee break, I approached first, Dr. Golombeck, and then Dr. Carr, and asked if they could give me a brief interpretation of how they thought the holes were made in my Lake Ontario specimens. In separate statements made to me by both scientists, each said that only volcanic outgasing could
Explain the numerous holes.

I then specifically asked if there could be a biological interpretation for the holes - both of these scientists said no. Needless to say, I was very surprised by their answers.

Keep in mind, I have the utmost respect for both Dr. Carr and Dr. Golombeck. However, they are not biologists or paleontologists. Dr. Jack
Farmer who was sitting nearby was next, what would he say, I thought? I pulled out my Lake Ontario specimens and handed one to Dr. Farmer.
He asked me where I had found it? I told him I would disclose the location after he gave me his interpretation of the numerous holes in the sandstone. At first he considered a volcanic origin as did Dr's. Golombeck and Carr, but then said he had seen similar holes produced by bivalves along the coast of California. Bingo. The exobiologist gets the cigar! What I did not tell the three NASA scientists is that I was writing a paper on a hypothesis I had based on my Lake Ontario specimens and rock images I have studied from the Viking 2 Landing site on Mars.

As I detailed in my paper (published in the Ichnology Newsletter - an informal scientific review of trace fossils), the holes in the rocks at the Viking 2 site look very much like the Bryozoan dissolution cavities from my Lake Ontario specimens.Of course they also look like the sort of holes bivalves produce along the shorelines of California as Dr. Farmer suggested. But that was it - here was a viable biological hypothesis.

The reason I decided to make the comparison between the Lake Ontario rocks and Viking Lander rocks is because no one had postulated a biological interpretation up to this point- at least not in any scientific literature available to me

www.spacedaily.com...

And to clarify why we just can not seem to get any straight answers we might ask why they don't just settle the issue with further testing?

Since the Viking mission to Mars 30 years ago, no mission to Mars has focused exclusively on searching for evidence of organic material or biological activity, Storrie-Lombardi said. Now the ongoing Phoenix mission and the planned Mars Science Laboratory and ExoMars missions are positioned to reverse that trend.

"The addition of an ultraviolet triage system to search for hints of organic material fits well into the extensive suite of organic detection instruments planned for the MSL and ExoMars expedition," he said.

astrobio.net...

The Spirit rover, and its twin, Opportunity, which is scheduled to land later this month, cannot perform complex chemical or biological tests that could prove the presence of life. The National Aeronautics and Space Administration aims to tackle the hardest questions last, after years of geological spade work to see if Mars was, or still is, conducive to life. The robot geologists are to look mainly for traces of water, examine rocks, minerals and land forms for clues to the planet's watery past.

astrobiology.berkeley.edu...

The Phoenix mission has its limitations beside a shoestring budget of $420 million. It doesn't carry instruments capable of identifying fossils or living things. Rather, the lander has a set of ovens and a gas analyzer that will heat soil and ice and sniff the resulting vapors for life-friendly elements. Its wet chemistry lab will test the pH, or acidity, of the soil much like a gardener would. And its microscope will examine soil granules for minerals that may indicate past presence of water.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

So obviously they are either implicity acknowling that they found life back in 1976 ( as i am confident they did) or they were not trying then and have spent the absolute minimum of time trying since.

Until then, Mars isn't even a graveyard. It's just a super-cold ball of dust.

And this coming from someone who either have not read any of the last thirty years worth of data from Mars or decided that he wont ever mention all the ongoing disagreement and revelations. Way to go....

Stellar


[edit on 7-7-2008 by StellarX]

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

So, the point is we'll always be limited in how we exploit Mars, we'll always be living in pressurized containers and wearing self-contained breathing apparatus.

PFFFTTT

EXPLOITING Mars will be easy.. ROBOTICS... those two rovers have miraculously been at it for five years... never needing a repair, an oil change or a bearing thrown... nor even a good cleaning... this is remarkable don't you think considering NASA's usual track record

If you look at all the off world mining projects they are ALL robotic... Progress Launch vehicles UNMANNED Jules Verne ESA cargo shuttle UNMANNED even the new Mach 6 to 10 Blackswift space plane UNMANNED as are all the UAV's and some new Naval vessles...

So explotation will mean few jobs for Americans

As to living there... simple solution a mere few generations of genetic alterations so WE BECOME THE MARTIANS

Piece of cake

BTW the REAL mission of the Rovers is micro mining... the photos of Mars are to keep us occupied and looking the other way

[edit on 7-7-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


While I have your attention, Z.....BTW, great how you do the italics....

Oh.....Mars.....the Rovers, Spirit and Opportunity. I know, I know, someone we both know and love think that 'secret astronauts' come around to sweep off the sand.....but, as far as I've seen, lots of wind will so the same thing.

Just sayin'...........

Originally posted by pynner
so... good soil... water ice... damp soil... there are arguably "trees" on mars, or at least some other plant life... why can't they just come out with it already!!!

thanks for the update

Lol that cracked me up!! well if they come out with the trees, they will have to tell us about the martians and wildlife.

But NOOOOooo gotta keep it sealed Even if they were plantlife of some sort what is the big deal about telling the world.

I actually think every government agencies are deluded. We are human beings you know?? just like you, but they are deluded of course.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Just sayin'...........

Well instead of 'just saying' how about showing me a machine that works in the deserts on Earth and runs five years without service

Where the wind cleans it off... where the drill bit its been drilling with for five years isn't getting dull and the abrasion tool is still sharp as new and not clogged with cutting debris... drilling into rock with no cutting fluid...

Marvelous winds eh? And that kind of durability would put companies out of business...

And even NASA only expected them to last a few months

But the point wasn't the miraculous cleaning and repairing wind... but that they are mining machines, not photographers



[edit on 7-7-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
Well instead of 'just saying' how about showing me a machine that works in the deserts on Earth...

Show me a several hundred million dollar machine in the desert here on Earth and I will show you a machine that works just like you describe. NOW I'M JUST SAYIN'

Originally posted by no name needed
Show me a several hundred million dollar machine in the desert here on Earth and I will show you a machine that works just like you describe.

STILLLLLL GOING

reply to post by zorgon


Show me the service record on that machine and I bet you (assuming it has been running nonstop for 5 years) that it has not NEEDED service. I dare to suggest that the "wind cleans it off, the drill bit its been drilling with for five years isn't getting dull and the abrasion tool is still sharp as new and not clogged with cutting debris"

It's simple really,

Mars has ice, and we can see it in telescopes. If Mars doesn't have an atmosphere (like NASA claims), then that means in the night Mars is cooled to extremely low temperatures. This also would mean Mars heats up to extremely high temperatures when it is day time. This would happen because there is no atmosphere to block certain Sun rays.

We all know ice melts when in high temperatures, so this would mean there IS an atmosphere in Mars. Because if there wasn't an atmosphere, then the Sun would melt the ice and create 0ne. Evaporated water/ice would create an atmosphere of expanded gaseous water.

We all know that hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe. So it's safe to say there is water (h2o) on Mars.

I don't trust any data from NASA. I trust pure logic. Water on Earth, Water on Mars.

It is known in Alchemy, and other sources, that water is the sperm of ALL life, and ALL elements. After all hydrogen is the purest form of all things, because all things are created of "electrons, protons, neutrons".

Someone might claim the pressure on Mars does not support liquid water. I think their pressure sensor is flawed.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by ALLis0NE]

To ignoramuses:

Mars is not a dead planet. It is not speculation to say otherwise.
ONE simple parameter is the presence of methane.
There are only two possible sources of methane: volcanism or metabolism/metabolism bi-products.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's volcanic. Which is a source of energy and nutrients, or it's metabolic.
Simple. And this is just ONE argument of many.

Getting bacteria or even simpler self-replicating molecules started isn't unusual, special or limited to one hot, corrosive little rock called earth.

Already happening. Mars parks are real. There are nature preserves and ecologically sensitive areas.

reply to post by ALLis0NE


The overnight temp swing is huge on Mars. But in many respects, I believe earth is weird in some ways. It's strange in the large sense, IMO, to be this warm and oxygenated with this many seemingly stable systems. To be this hot and have liquid water may be unusual. I think earth has a much more violent turbulent nature than we give her credit for.
We've jsut come along in a period of relative calm, which may account in many ways for our success as a species.