Absolutely. Thousands of gun-deaths a year, and the dumb-arsed Yanks still haven't learned.

What disgusts me more is the "yay we get to keep our guns and keep killing people!" posters. Honestly, that's insane. I would fear to walk to the corner shop in America. Oh no, i'd just get a gun, like everyone else.


Awesome, another snob Brit that doesn't know anything about America, except what he watches on tv.
I love the sweeping generalisation that all Yanks are dumb-arses. ARe Yanks all Americans? Or just those in DC, lol.
Let me try to help you - a gun death is someone killed by a gun. That doesn't always mean the deceased is a victim. A lot of times it is the perpetrator that is shot. It also covers suicides.
Britain has an almost complete ban on gun ownership, except landowners...yet you still have gun crime.
Just FYI, Northerm Ireland has a higher gun homicide rate than USA, and South Africas' gun homicide rate is almost 10 times that of the USA. How do you feel about that?
It is interesting that all 3 of these countries were at one point English colonies (N Ireland still is, right?). USA and S. Africa got independance through violent means, and N. Ireland has been trying to gain independance through violent means for centuries. You can elucidate from those occurances that is having been under English control that have made those societies violent. Or would you say it is just coincidence?
So we have an Brit condemning gun violence, yet it was the Brits that were the predominant force in shaping that very culture. Have your cake and eat it; That's the British way!

As an "Obamanite" or "Obamatron" or whatever that owns an M1 (ex-National Match even), an FN-49 (Egyptian in 8mm Mauser), an SKS, and an old semiauto .22 with a 21 round tubular mag - among several other things - that's simply not true

Obama's gun record isn't great, but he seems to have come around some since he started serving in the US Senate and having to represent more rural Illinois gun owners.

If the only issue on the table was gun control, my vote might be different.
But there is a lot more going on than just one issue.

Besides, the US Supreme Court has put the brakes on aggressive gun control measures for the foreseeable future anyway

[edit on 6/30/08 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex
As an "Obamanite" or "Obamatron" or whatever that owns an M1 (ex-National Match even), an FN-49 (Egyptian in 8mm Mauser), an SKS, and an old semiauto .22 with a 21 round tubular mag - among several other things - that's simply not true

You might love your guns and Obama, too, but the hard left supports Obama and will still do anything to ban all guns. That's their camp.

However, ever since the Democrats lost the Congress last over the issue of gun control, Democrats have been treading lightly on this issue to be sure.

But, for that to remain the case, it will take extraordinary measures by Second Amendment advocates.

The NRA offers its support to more Republicans than Democrats, but that is based solely on a politician's record on gun control.

The NRA is non-partisan. If a politician respects the 2nd Amendment and votes that way, the NRA will give him a high rating, even if he is a Democrat. If a politician does not respect the 2nd Amendment and votes that way, he will get a low score, even if he is a Republican.

I vote that way as well. If a Democrat represents my interests, he will get my vote. If I view the Democrat as more suited for the job, he gets my vote.

Unfortunately, Democrats have disappointed me so many times that I can't in good conscience support them most of the time.

Bill Richardson is in my opinion a narcissistic, lying, political chameleon, however, since no one with a credible political record opposed him, he got my vote. It just so happens that he supports the Second Amendment, so that does dull the pain, somewhat.

So, if you support Obama, if you value your Constitutionally protected rights, you should belong to an organization that actively supports and lobbies for those rights.


[edit on 2008/6/30 by GradyPhilpott]

As I've said on ATS a few times, I am a card carrying member of both the NRA and the ACLU

I don't see the Second Amendment as a left/right issue, but as a civil liberties issue, and there are a lot of Americans across a wide political spectrum who agree with me.

I agree that gun control has been a cause endorsed by many on the left (mainly in urban areas), however it seems to be losing steam rapidly even there. More and more Democrats, including party chairman Howard Dean, Bill Richardson (as you pointed out), and Ohio Governor Ted Stevens have realized that gun control laws limit the rights of law abiding citizens while having no effect on violent crime (or making it worse!)

If you look back through this thread, many of the more "liberal" American posters here have supported this SCOTUS decision, most of the opposition seems to be coming from overseas.

Originally posted by xmotex

I don't see the Second Amendment as a left/right issue, but as a civil liberties issue....

It's a shame that the American Civil Liberties Union doesn't agree with you.

That's the deal breaker for me.

Originally posted by Bunch
...I think that at least some background check could be in order to prevent people with mental related issues from getting their hands on firearms.

There is such a law already on the books.

/2e4ml4

Of course, not even this law will prevent suicide by firearm.

There are so many ways to end one's life that even if all guns were to disappear tomorrow, it would make nary a dent in the problem.

The handbook for suicide and assisted suicide is available from Amazon.


[edit on 2008/6/30 by GradyPhilpott]

Originally posted by xmotex
I don't see the Second Amendment as a left/right issue, but as a civil liberties issue...

Actually, I don't see it as a civil liberties issue...I see it as an issue of God-given Rights specifically mentioned in the Bill of Rights! As a Constitutional Right, that's how I can best defend my actual liberties.

Or don't you see the difference between a Right & a Liberty?

The Supreme court has disarmed Washington.

The precedent has been set; America is next.

Redneck knows what is going on.