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Lisbon treaty: key findings from the high court judgment

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posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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Lisbon treaty: key findings from the high court judgment


www.guardian.co.uk

"The subject matter, nature and context of a promise of this kind place it in the realm of politics, not of the courts, and the question whether the government should be held to such a promise is a political rather than a legal matter. In particular, in this case the decision on the holding of a referendum lay with parliament, and it was for parliament to decide whether the government should be held to any promise previously made."
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 06:36 AM
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Well, there you have it - the UK Government is above the law it seems, and even the court says it is a political matter.

I don't agree at all that it is a political issue. They said in their manifesto (IIRC) that they would hold a referendum. That should be legally binding as it formed a part of peoples decision making when deciding who to vote for.

This country is dead. Control, control, and more control is all thesse people are interested in. We're now in dangerous times indeed.

EDIT TO ADD: Interestingly this has yet to appear on the BBC News Website, or in any major television or radio news report.

www.guardian.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 26-6-2008 by mirageofdeceit]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 07:28 AM
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Wow. Looks like your country's just been taken over. This is a ridiculous ruling that strips away the right to vote on anything. I'm so sorry to hear this. Those crooks will do anything to ram thru the Lisbon Treaty.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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A Little bit of a stray from the OP (only a little), when Lisbon is fully ratified and implemented, what will be the status of non-EU created U.K law (common and civil), U.K regulation, U.K law enforcement and enactment agents, U.K bailiffs, U.K politicians and other such entities?

That question might sound daft but, under Lisbon, will not the charges of all entities of U.K authority be nulled where they are not EU certified? I'm thinking along the lines of the U.K no longer having sovereign status and being empowered only to act according to EU law, regulation and other directives - pretty much as only EU certificated electricians may undertake electrical work, plumbers plumbing, mechanics mechanics etc.

Or have I missed something?

Please answer this because I'm very curious to know the answers. Specially that we might force the treaty to not be ratified were it shown to contain loopholes for EU citizens.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:40 PM
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ireland voted no and it looks like they will get us vote again untill we vote yes!

what part of NO do they not understand?



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Couldn't an appeal be made to the World Court in the Hague? Couldn't someone in government call for a confidence vote in Parliament and force an election?

The Irish should not allow themselves to be bullied the way the English bullied them for hundreds of years. If for no other reason, I hope the Irish stand firm so as to stop the Eurobullies in their tracks.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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A Little bit of a stray from the OP (only a little), when Lisbon is fully ratified and implemented, what will be the status of non-EU created U.K law (common and civil), U.K regulation, U.K law enforcement and enactment agents, U.K bailiffs, U.K politicians and other such entities?

That question might sound daft but, under Lisbon, will not the charges of all entities of U.K authority be nulled where they are not EU certified? I'm thinking along the lines of the U.K no longer having sovereign status and being empowered only to act according to EU law, regulation and other directives - pretty much as only EU certificated electricians may undertake electrical work, plumbers plumbing, mechanics mechanics etc.

Or have I missed something?

An excellent question, and the answer might lie here:

From the Treaty: europa.eu...

in paragraph 2, the words ‘The Council, meeting in the composition of the Heads of State
or Government and acting by unanimity’ shall be replaced by ‘The European Council,
acting by unanimity’ and the words ‘the government of the Member State in question’
shall be replaced by ‘the Member State in question’;


It' sickening!! See how they're no longer recognizing national governments?!

The next post is all the things I found in the first few pages alone. It's mixed up with other things that make it seem like ity could be a good idea. Looks like they took "reading between the lines" literally on this one.


People really have no idea what they're getting into.

One reason put forth for the "NO" vote in Ireland was that no-one had read the treaty and didn't know what it said, yet I say that they didn't exactly advertise it. It should have been the most prominent thing in the world!!!


[edit on 26-6-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

[edit on 26-6-2008 by mirageofdeceit]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:58 PM
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This is the kind of thing people have signed up to. These paragraphs are intermixed with innocuous looking paragraphs.

It makes me feel sick to think what else is in this thing.


Looks like as part of the treaty, countries that don't already have the Euro, will have to have it. We won't be getting a referendum on whether to join the Euro then, either. I thought that part of Europe had gone a bit quiet - I'm not surprised. The government knew that by getting this through, we'd get the Euro as part of the deal.


I feel my country has been invaded by foreign persons unknown by stealth.


europa.eu...


the third paragraph shall be replaced by the following:
‘The Union shall be founded on the present Treaty and on the Treaty on the Functioning
of the European Union (hereinafter referred to as “the Treaties”). Those two Treaties shall
have the same legal value. The Union shall replace and succeed the European
Community.’.



The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro.



Pursuant to the principle of sincere cooperation, the Union and the Member States shall,
in full mutual respect, assist each other in carrying out tasks which flow from the Treaties.



The Member States shall take any appropriate measure, general or particular, to ensure
fulfilment of the obligations arising out of the Treaties or resulting from the acts of the
institutions of the Union.



The Member States shall facilitate the achievement of the Union's tasks and refrain from any
measure which could jeopardise the attainment of the Union's objectives.’.



The institutions of the Union shall apply the principle of subsidiarity as laid down in the
Protocol on the application of the principles of subsidiarity and proportionality. National
Parliaments ensure compliance with the principle of subsidiarity in accordance with the
procedure set out in that Protocol.



in paragraph 2, the words ‘The Council, meeting in the composition of the Heads of State
or Government and acting by unanimity’ shall be replaced by ‘The European Council,
acting by unanimity’ and the words ‘the government of the Member State in question’
shall be replaced by ‘the Member State in question’;



The Union shall have an institutional framework which shall aim to promote its values,
advance its objectives, serve its interests, those of its citizens and those of the Member States,
and ensure the consistency, effectiveness and continuity of its policies and actions.
The Union's institutions shall be:
— the European Parliament,
— the European Council,
— the Council,
— the European Commission (hereinafter referred to as “the Commission”),
— the Court of Justice of the European Union,
— the European Central Bank,
— the Court of Auditors.



1. The European Parliament shall, jointly with the Council, exercise legislative and
budgetary functions. It shall exercise functions of political control and consultation as laid
down in the Treaties. It shall elect the President of the Commission.
2. The European Parliament shall be composed of representatives of the Union's citizens.
They shall not exceed seven hundred and fifty in number, plus the President. Representation of
citizens shall be degressively proportional, with a minimum threshold of six members per
Member State. No Member State shall be allocated more than ninety-six seats.
The European Council shall adopt by unanimity, on the initiative of the European Parliament
and with its consent, a decision establishing the composition of the European Parliament,
respecting the principles referred to in the first subparagraph.
3. The members of the European Parliament shall be elected for a term of five years by
direct universal suffrage in a free and secret ballot.
4. The European Parliament shall elect its President and its officers from among its
members.’.



1. The Commission shall promote the general interest of the Union and take appropriate
initiatives to that end. It shall ensure the application of the Treaties, and of measures adopted by
the institutions pursuant to them. It shall oversee the application of Union law under the
control of the Court of Justice of the European Union. It shall execute the budget and manage
programmes. It shall exercise coordinating, executive and management functions, as laid down
in the Treaties. With the exception of the common foreign and security policy, and other cases
provided for in the Treaties, it shall ensure the Union's external representation. It shall initiate
the Union's annual and multiannual programming with a view to achieving interinstitutional
agreements.
2. Union legislative acts may only be adopted on the basis of a Commission proposal,
except where the Treaties provide otherwise. Other acts shall be adopted on the basis of a
Commission proposal where the Treaties so provide.



3. The Commission's term of office shall be five years.
The members of the Commission shall be chosen on the ground of their general competence
and European commitment from persons whose independence is beyond doubt.
In carrying out its responsibilities, the Commission shall be completely independent. Without
prejudice to Article 9 E(2), the members of the Commission shall neither seek nor take
instructions from any Government or other institution, body, office or entity. They shall refrain
from any action incompatible with their duties or the performance of their tasks.



In carrying out its responsibilities, the Commission shall be completely independent.



Without prejudice to Article 9 E(2), the members of the Commission shall neither seek nor take instructions from any Government or other institution, body, office or entity.



They shall refrain from any action incompatible with their duties or the performance of their tasks.

Quite an eye-opener, and I haven't even finished reading the first few pages.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by mirageofdeceit]

[edit on 26-6-2008 by mirageofdeceit]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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reply to post by Pellevoisin
 


governments are all in this together! they have their own agenda's!

the irish will vote NO again, i would just be worried about rigging starting in this country



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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The Member States shall facilitate the achievement of the Union's tasks and refrain from any measure which could jeopardise the attainment of the Union's objectives.’.

What does that mean? That a country (sorry, I mean a member state) can't act unilaterally on *anything*?

Would that be a little like Montana trying to go to war with North Korea on it's own?
I thought the European Superstate wasn't supposed to exist under Lisbon?
(I hope you see my point).

Example: The UK went to war with the US against Afghanistan and Iraq. Would this now not be possible without the full backing of Europe because it "could jeopardise the attainment of the Union's objectives"?

Just what objectives might that be, exactly?

I fear a state appearing that Hitler tried to construct in WW2. I see many parallels.

EDIT: I have to add that this thread is receiving less attention than the Euro 2008 thread, started later. Why are people so dis-interested in probably the most serious thing to happen to their/a country since probably WW2?


[edit on 26-6-2008 by mirageofdeceit]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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Now I think I see why the europeans seem to always be complaining about what is going on in the U.S. (politics, gun laws, etc.). I'm guessing it is because they know they've already lost it over there, and ...

a) misery loves company and they want the U.S. to join them in that.
or
b) our problems appear to the euros to be easier to solve than their own.

Either way, I still maintain that euros should clean up their own considerable mess before offering any "help" to the U.S.





posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by centurion1211
 


I don't consider myself European for one minute - I'm British. Europe is "over there". * Points *


I don't agree with everything the US does, but generally I support them as a country.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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And to my surprise the media (at least in my country) does not talk about the treaty , most people never heard about the treaty , what matters now in europe is the European Football Championship , thats what worries the media , and the common person.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by dracodie
And to my surprise the media (at least in my country) does not talk about the treaty , most people never heard about the treaty , what matters now in europe is the European Football Championship , thats what worries the media , and the common person.

I'm seriously beginning to wonder if the media have been asked to not report on it. The BBC still do not have an article on this at all! I can't believe they've been caught sleeping through this!

Here's the Front Page of the BBC News website at the time of this post:


[edit on 26-6-2008 by mirageofdeceit]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by meremortal
ireland voted no and it looks like they will get us vote again untill we vote yes!

what part of NO do they not understand?


Strong arm tactic.. new vote every year, eventually one will pass by a narrow margin ..

Essentially the power players are pissed off at the Irish people for daring to stand up for themselves.. in the end, Ireland will get exactly what they asked for from the treaty, and within a year the power players will reform the treaty and Ireland will still be conforming to the regulations of Europe, not her own people. It doesn't matter what treaty Ireland signs, no one will stand for Ireland having control over her own corporate tax rates.. and judging by the economy in Éire a corporate tax increase will be the final straw in economic depression.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by mirageofdeceit
 



yeah , i dont know whats wrong with the media , i cant believe they are all a bunch of ignorants , someone must be filtring the content that the media gives , or maybe they are really a bunch of ignorants.


[edit on 26-6-2008 by dracodie]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by mirageofdeceit
 


Sorry for the late gratitude..I had to go somewhere..thank you for putting forth an answer to my questions above.

I think the reason threads about the Lisbon treaty get so little attention is that few people know what it is. They hear it mentioned on the TV and radio even see it in their news papers but most people still don't know about it. Ask regular, apolitical people about it and they will either ask you what it is or pretend to know all about it (then blag it from info fed by the BBC). And I suspect that (sorry in advance) most ATS's don't know enough about it to feel confident enough to comment on it.

Thank you, OP, for showing the Lisbon treaty's content to more people.



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