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Physicist's atom-sorting 'demon' created with lasers. 2nd law broken

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posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
The second law of thermodynamics is not really a law, it is an observation of the statistical behavior of a large collection of microscopic objects.

Consider the law applied to a pool table, where all the pockets have barriers that bounce the balls back instead of into the pocket. And the pool table has zero friction and zero air resistance, so the balls keep colliding nearly forever, with individual speeds and energies that vary from zero to (rarely) nearly all the kinetic energy of all the balls into one.

The laser here is like a force field. If the atom has enough energy, its kinetic energy lets it penetrate the barrier. The average energy of the pool balls goes down. So energy is not created nor destroyed.

Entropy is simply reversed in this situation. All the excuses in the world are not going to change that face... Worshipers of this law are simply going to find another false idol to worship.


You should sign up to ATS , seems to me u could make a valuable contribution to discussions, clear, understandable i like it




posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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I think I see Anons point, but it still seems like the barriers (in the form of lasers) must be using energy, and as such the law is upheld.

Or have I misunderstood?

Edit: Damn dislexya!

[edit on 26/6/08 by gekko]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 04:24 PM
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Quiet funny how some here have such a hard time accepting that a "law" is wrong. I'm myself a physicist and have no problem with "laws" being broken. First you have to accept that there's no such thing as a law. If it's made by humans then it can be broken period. The only use of a law are its applications. Laws are just called laws because SO FAR there was no exception in an experiment that would prove it wrong. This does not mean the law is absolute, to make this happen you have to make infinite experiments and each experiment has infinite variables and so on.

What is also amusing is that most of these law obeying people are not religious but when it comes to scientific laws being broken they act just like a religious person would when he's told his religion is wrong. There's no right or wrong there's only your personal view.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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OK Mr physicist, I bow to your superior intellect.
Can you please explain to me in layman’s terms how the lasers are not using energy?

Regards

g



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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Cool! That's some freaky stuff right there!

I have great trouble believing any law of physics is unbreakable. It's simply ten commandments that are meant to be broken by "evil" renegade scientists that refuse to care whether or not they are ejected from the academic congregation. I'm no scientist but I definitely break a couple laws daily in ways only I need to know that cements my disbelief in the hardcore foundations of physical law.

Badass scientists & know nothing experimenters simply rule and will provide real modern science for the future academics among us to worship! Einstein can kiss me where it smells funny! He's so 1900's!



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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There is a reason why this article tries to claim the second law of thermodynamics has been broken. Familiarize yourself with the New Scientist publication, and it becomes obvious. Invalidating the 2nd law of thermodynamics, even in some qualified manner, is the holy grail for a certain line of "science." And Im not talking free energy, here. Think mainstream. Science is no longer about truth as much as it is about belief and perception.



posted on Jun, 27 2008 @ 12:10 AM
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This story reminded me of a story I just read in the new issue of Discover Magazine about the new laser ignition laboratory in Livermore, California. The picture is actually quite amazing..

But, in short, how it works is this..
It is a massive laser built for fusion research. It can currently fire 4 megajoules of IR energy for up to 20 nanoseconds. This energy enters both ends of a small gold capsule.

The hope is that through this research scientists will find a way to make endless energy using the same process (but currently it takes more energy to start the process than you get out). But they're saying by 2010 they will be at that point...

See more on the research of the National Ignition Facility (NIF) at their official site:
lasers.llnl.gov...

By the time the facility is completed in 2009, the laser will be 60 times more powerful than any other laser ever devised.

EDIT:
discovermagazine.com...
Here is the story I was talking about.. Included is the photo i was also talking about (pretty wild stuff). However, not as near as impressive as the photos of the CERN LHC.
www.st.com...

www.eiroforum.org...

www.eiroforum.org...

-ChriS


[edit on 27-6-2008 by BlasteR]



posted on Jun, 27 2008 @ 04:17 AM
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reply to post by BlasteR
 

What they are talking about here is fusion, not energy from nothing.

Come on people, I have never said the laws of physics can't be broken. I have just not seen them broken yet, and certainly not by anything in this thread. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Whatever, if you "want to believe" there is little I can do.


g



posted on Jun, 27 2008 @ 11:59 PM
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Errr I never said energy from nothing..... LOL
The idea is to use similar processes in the future for creating more energy than is put in. Which would translate to an extremely efficient energy-producing technology which could be improved upon and made more efficient as other technology improves and as new scientific discoveries are made in the field of fusion...

This process in particular I was referring to in the Discover magazine article involves the laser fusing two hydrogen isotopes through the heat created in the subsequent nanoseconds just after the laser is turned on. And nuclear energy is not exactly free energy. However it would be a landmark breakthrough in energy if it proves fruitful in 2009.

-ChriS

[edit on 28-6-2008 by BlasteR]

[edit on 28-6-2008 by BlasteR]



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 12:17 AM
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Normally, collecting a gas into a smaller volume ends up increasing the gas’s temperature, while letting the gas expand lowers it. But the laser barrier stuffs the gas into a smaller volume with only a minute increase in its temperature, Daniel Steck of the University of Oregon in Eugene and his colleagues report in the June 20 Physical Review Letters.
Researchers could then let it expand and get colder than the temperature at which it started, even approaching temperatures just above absolute zero.


This here is the key folks. It doesn't violate the law, but it's damn close. About as close as we may find.



posted on Jun, 18 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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Hi, I am writing a huge paper in my Theory of Knowledge class (like 12pgs long) and I was wondering if I could quote you guys? I could totally use the part where you discuss how scientists won't give up theories and laws because they are too emotionally attached and about the other problems with science (infinite variables, effects at atomic levels, etc...) Also, do you guys think that there is enough information to write such a paper, because when I first googled the topic not much came up. Actually, I first read about this topic in my 2009 Almanac- scientific discoveries section- and have found it interesting ever since!




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