And people wonder why our society is in the mess it's in...

Ciao.

dB

This is really weird stuff!
From what I've heard the CIA sent all the members of the "disclosure project" free passes to "CLUB POGO" at (pogo.com)

and most of the disclosure project members have since been working on getting "badges" ! Who would of thought !

It could take years before we hear any new information if that’s the case!

Originally posted by davidbiedny
And people wonder why our society is in the mess it's in...

Ciao.

dB

You mean like the inability of the leaders of this world to deal with Robert Mugabe, because instead of taking direct action they pussyfoot around while pretending to be 'doing their duty'? Yes I agree with you, society is in a royal mess because people no longer have the courage of their convictions to take their adversaries head-on. You know, I saw Gordon Brown on the tv news yesterday, outside the African Summit, mumbling about how Zimbabwe shouldn't accept Mugabe in power, that they must have a new government.

It reminded me very much of the 15 minutes after the Greer interview (minus the giggly-stoner-recently-jilted-by-ex impression - that's not you personally of course, but that was the impression I got of the presenters on air), here he was.. he'd been to the Summit, he had the opportunity to grab Mugabe by the testes and instead we see him bleating about what should've been achieved. I can see Mugabe carrying on and on and on and on, with zero action taken, just continued grumping and griping from the people with the power to make a change.

You had the power to make the change, to blow Dr Greer apart if you feel this is what he deserves. Inaction is the bane of society indeed.

Originally posted by doctormcauley
Steven Greer has indeed been compromised.

This man was a genuine threat to the status quo. Intelligence gathering had to be increased.

It was via this surveillance that it was found that Greer was in fact a closet homosexual. One who frequented gyms and various other known gay hangouts. It wasn't long before the more valuable intelligence began to roll in. Potentially compromising photos, video and audio were all obtained.

Upon being threatened with the revelation of this information to his wife and family, Greer reluctantly acquiesced, and began to reverse the course of the Disclosure project, with promises to slowly discredit it and himself - all to save face.

So, how do you know this? - or is this something you heard on some episode of Paracast? Unless you can provide further information to substantiate these claims, then they seem a tad stupid given the fact that Greer DOES NOT seem to be reversing his stance on Disclosure. Besides, how gay can he be given he has children?

And I can assure you - Greer is becoming MORE popular as a result of his last book, and as a result of him including spirituality and consciousness in the ET/UFO equation.

Surely the very existence of beings and craft that defy our faith in the speed of light, or our faith in a mechanistic-Darwinistic theory of life on Earth - points to the fact that we need to EXPAND our perceptions and beliefs and understanding.

This whole debate basically centres around the fact, that SOME 'believers in UFOs' cringe and feel that they look silly, when they hear Greer (one of the UFO movement's main heros to date) talking about consciousness and spirituality, or when they learn that Greer is holding workshops regarding calling down UFOs etc.

Greer's respect is growing, not waning - and this really upsets people who don't want to mix spirituality and consciousness with scientific, 'credible' UFO research.

To those who repeatedly insult and denigrate Dr Steven Greer - I say "go do something better than he has done" or just shut the hell up!

Duncan

What exactly is the motive here? Throw enough mud in the hope some of it will stick?

That was exactly my point. And is very sad when is not coming from the simple membership of this board.

Originally posted by nexusmagazine
Welcome to my ignore list.

Duncan

Thanx, all too glad to be here. Another venomous zealot leaving me alone is what I ask for every day. Maybe one day the paranormal paparazzi like you will be less worried about cashing in on nonsense (because it makes a good story) and get serious, but I doubt it.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by jritzmann]

Before this gets too far afield let me just say - there are some very intelligent and respected people on both "sides" of this issue. And it's too bad that the only "side" isn't the side of truth; but perspective being what it is, both sides feel that's exactly where they are, but may be too emotionally invested to realize how they're coming across.

Personally, I don't want to lose anyone's participation because they're too fed up to continue, or any other reason.

So please take a breath and chill out a bit before we end up heading somewhere no one wants to go.

My u2u box is always open for someone needing to vent, and I can be beaten like a rented mule. In fact, it may be what I do best.

Just sayin'.

Originally posted by yeahright
Before this gets too far afield let me just say - there are some very intelligent and respected people on both "sides" of this issue. And it's too bad that the only "side" isn't the side of truth; but perspective being what it is, both sides feel that's exactly where they are, but may be too emotionally invested to realize how they're coming across.

Personally, I don't want to lose anyone's participation because they're too fed up to continue, or any other reason.

So please take a breath and chill out a bit before we end up heading somewhere no one wants to go.

My u2u box is always open for someone needing to vent, and I can be beaten like a rented mule. In fact, it may be what I do best.

Just sayin'.

Excuse me - but what is so intelligent about people calling Dr Steven Greer things like a closet homosexual, a howling at the moon nut job etc? Unsubstantiated slander such as that peddled by the Paracast 'broadcasters' just tells the more rational people that their research is not to be trusted.

What I don't understand is how come moderators on ATS allow such slander and baseless accusations against Greer, but won't allow similar attacks on their more 'cherished' stars, such as Stewart Swerdlow - who IS a known fraud and charlatan? When I alerted ATS to the fact that one of the ATS Interviewees was an (alleged) felon; and a recognised fraud - my post was pulled and I was warned.

Disappointed in the moderators of this thread for their bias!

Duncan

Originally posted by nexusmagazine
Disappointed in the moderators of this thread for their bias!

And I'm disappointed at the lack of tact from someone who feels the need to remind us all (repeatedly) that he's a professional publisher.

Certainly, someone in your profession is aware of the potential for criticism one may be subject to when they cast themselves into the public eye as Dr. Greer has done. By stepping up and positioning himself has a public champion of "something," he opens himself up to not only support, but analysis as well... and that analysis may often be unflattering. Dr. Greer's support of what many believe to be a hoax, and the presentation of obviously fake O'Hare UFO pictures at the press club only compound the intensity of such analysis.

There are countless such public figures in a broad range of interest areas that receive an often harsh skeptical analysis by the members of ATS. Such is the rocky road to truth.

However, that being said, we do anticipate and insist that our members treat each other with civility and respect.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by nexusmagazine
Disappointed in the moderators of this thread for their bias!

And I'm disappointed at the lack of tact from someone who feels the need to remind us all (repeatedly) that he's a professional publisher.

Certainly, someone in your profession is aware of the potential for criticism one may be subject to when they cast themselves into the public eye as Dr. Greer has done. By stepping up and positioning himself has a public champion of "something," he opens himself up to not only support, but analysis as well... and that analysis may often be unflattering. Dr. Greer's support of what many believe to be a hoax, and the presentation of obviously fake O'Hare UFO pictures at the press club only compound the intensity of such analysis.

There are countless such public figures in a broad range of interest areas that receive an often harsh skeptical analysis by the members of ATS. Such is the rocky road to truth.

However, that being said, we do anticipate and insist that our members treat each other with civility and respect.

Analysis of people who step up is one thing, but blatant smear jobs is another.
Your obvious personal bias against Greer is noted.

On a more important note, I would have thought that ATS moderators would be capable of acting in a neutral capacity, instead of clearly taking sides. Like an umpire perhaps? Obviously I am wrong. I am not saying moderators can't have personal opinions, but surely they should be capable of putting them aside in order to facilitate fair and rational disussion of topics? THIS AIN'T HAPPENING HERE BILL!

You call for tact and civility from me - how come you don't ask for it from jrittzman and the paracast dudes? Why do these civility and respect rules apply only to me and my posts, and not to the posts where I am openly and professionally slandered with much worse than anything I have said?

If site owners and moderators are going to continue to act like this, and give preferential treatment to posters who reinforce their own personal beliefs, then I am out of here.

Duncan

The "publisher" will not take responsibility for his own actions - the only reason I jumped into this thread is that I was being denigrated quite directly, being called every name under the sun. I have every right to respond to that type of abuse - and I did just that, when the "publisher" then tried to behave as if the rules of decorum only applied to others, and not to him. The hypocrisy of his words is self-evident, and it makes me question the tone and integrity of his magazine (which I've never read). This guy has no problem attacking me & Ritzmann, because of our feelings about Greer. He's happy to ignore EVERYTHING else we do for the field, and focus in the fact that we feel that Greer is a scam artist. We offer ample of proof to this effect, the "publisher" offers squat. It's not like the evidence isn't there for anyone to see - audience members of The Paracast dug up some real gems, which inspired me to do the same. And then there's the X-Con appearance of Greer, which I attended, and to hear the man lie through his teeth, with a smile on his face, was just precious. My B.S. detector is working quite well - it seems like age just sharpens that particular sense. And I won't touch the homosexual charges, I never made them, but I'll say this - you have to see him in live performance, the answer is as obvious as the sun. The entire tone of his voice completely changes - it's as if you're hearing a completely different character from his radio persona - and the body language is quite, uhm, revealing.

And you know what's really amusing about all this? Greer has eyes and fingers, he's certainly more than capable of defending himself in this, or any other public forum. He has been invited to appear on the ATS Mix show, and declined. After having interviewed him three times on The Paracast, I can tell you that he has an air of superiority and an attitude that puts him above the "little people". He styles himself a Messianic figure, and has now moved from UFOs to "free energy", specifically chosen to amortize the effort he's made with the UFO audience and keep the scam rolling. He loves to mingle with those who he feels can do things for him, but ignores - and talks down to - those who are his primary prey, the folks who buy into his shpiel hook, line and sinker. The "publisher", and other Greer fans, apparently won't respond to the words of Dr. Edgar Mitchell, who clearly states that he feels that Greer is far less than honest, and to the many other pieces of evidence that support the idea that Greer is a charlatan. They can't admit that they were wrong, and will protect their hero at all costs. It reflects the kind of reality that Bush/Cheney supporters face these days, in the light of the evidence indicating that both of them are war criminals.

And there's the latest email blast from the Oreo Project, which is just hysterical - be a good patriot, give your money to Greer, he'll use it to make your life better. It's almost as good as the email blast from last year, looking for frequent flier miles from his fans, so that he could fly first-class to some conference. He'll release CSETI photos and videos later this year - which he's been saying for 14 years, with nothing to show. NOTHING. When will people wake up and see this nonsense for what it is, an out-and-out scam?

Anyway, thanks for stepping in, Bill. It's always encouraging to know that there are others who see through the nonsense.

dB

[edit on 4-7-2008 by davidbiedny]

[edit on 4-7-2008 by davidbiedny]