Teen arrested for 'blasphemous T-shirt'

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by tezzajw
Far out, what have we come to?

That is my question, too, but for a whole other reason. Yes, what have we come to when people want this to be defended under the excuse of freedom? Even though I am a Christian, the fact it had Jesus and a nun on it is not the problem, legally. It is the language and what the nun is depicted as doing on the t-shirt.

I would not want to be out with my four year old and see that. I would not want to be out by myself and see that. It's tasteless. It's the same reason we don't let people walk around downtown naked. There is such a thing as decency. And if you can't realize that, then perhaps we need others to enforce it for you. That belongs in a porn film where people who may want to see it can- not out on the streets where children and others are forced to see it. Come on.

Would you prefer having a nun lie down in the middle of a street with her legs spread,masturbating with a crucifix?...or a cartoon depiction wore by a teenager,because he likes the band and the *intentional* shock value its supposed to have...please,i wish people would stop using the whole *my pure children cant see such things* as an excuse,they probably couldnt even comprehend the whole picture.As for people walking down the street naked,people should be allowed to do that aswell..since when did government deem what and if we wear clothes? Your eyes have motory functions for a reason..dont like it..look away...! Wooo problem solved,how hard was that,but i guess some people feel the energy expenditure validates their views... Just want to metnion,i think burdman said it a few pages back,that the word [SNIP] really isn't so bad over here...i use profane language all the time..not to be profane..but its simply part of the way i talk so to speak...i dont even think twice about it and neither do the people i talk to,its just part of the language we use...culture is strange...

[edit on 26-6-2008 by Lethil]

Mod Edit: Removed Profanity. Again.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by Gemwolf]

reply to post by AshleyD

Actually no, this has little to do with so called decency and more to do with religion. I'm going to throw your own example back at you.

There is nothing inherently indecent about someone walking naked down the street. Nakedness is totally natural. If you think it's indecent it's because you believe it to be, not because it is. Natural tribes have a much more relaxed attitude to nakedness, mostly they dress up to keep warm, to protect themselves from insects or other things, to keep their dangly bits out of the way or to, well, "dress up"...

Only once you bring religion in to it, something else takes over, and you're on your way to burka territory.

Yes thats right, the Taliban agrees with you Ashley and would like to help you take thinga a little further...

I'm surprised that what I feel is a common sense post on my end is being met with disagreement but nevertheless...

reply to post by Lethil

Would you prefer having a nun lie down in the middle of a street with her legs spread,masturbating with a crucifix?

Is this a serious question? Because if a t-shirt depicting such actions would be over the top in my opinion, I can't imagine how you would think I would prefer that. It is indecent. Both the t-shirt and the scenario your propose above. Are we really so depraved we cannot understand why some people would have issues with the t-shirt?

i wish people would stop using the whole *my pure children cant see such things* as an excuse

Would you wear this t-shirt around your child? I can only hope you would say, 'Heck no!' And I can only hope that because you would realize it is mature content. Even movies have R ratings to prohibit certain people viewing inappropriate material. This guy was walking down the street wearing it. Come on.

Originally posted by gekko
There is nothing inherently indecent about someone walking naked down the street. Nakedness is totally natural. If you think it's indecent it's because you believe it to be, not because it is. Natural tribes have a much more relaxed attitude to nakedness, mostly they dress up to keep warm, to protect themselves from insects or other things, to keep their dangly bits out of the way or to, well, "dress up"...

Same thing goes with sex. It is beautiful and natural, however, if a man and a woman are having sex in public, I wouldn't be surprised to see them get arrested. Get it? There is a time and a place. You wrongfully assume I am prudish by thinking I have issues with nudity. I do not. I used the analogy of someone being publicly naked in our society because it is illegal- not because it is dirty or evil. You put those words in my mouth.

Look at what this guy was wearing. You cannot even go into an adult store without showing your ID. There is a reason why such things are out of public view- it is for decency and there are laws. There are very strict codes those businesses have to adhere to. Why? Because those images shown inside those stores are not suitable for everyone. And although I have yet to see any nun porn inside those establishments, there are images of females masturbating. And those things are concealed from the public by law. Female masturbation, like nudity and sex, is natural but it is still not meant for public display. How are we not understanding this?

Yes thats right, the Taliban agrees with you Ashley and would like to help you take thinga a little further...

Well, thanks for ridiculing me and comparing my opinion on this matter to the Taliban. They think a woman's face should be covered while I am a fan of string bikinis. However, seeing the 'C' word and a woman pleasuring herself is indecent on a t-shirt worn in public.

Faces. The 'C' word and masturbation. Let's learn the difference. Freedom of expression vs. common decency.

Oh, and I will ask you the same thing: Would you wear this around your child? If not, why not? If so, then please don't bother continuing our discussion.

[edit on 6/26/2008 by AshleyD]

Ok first things first..i noticed i cant actually use an asterix to use the letter u in the word in question,so sorry mod! Anyway ashley,i have no children,but there are far worse things for a child to see than a cartoon depiction of a nun masturbating etc....it would be out of most childrens minds within 10 seconds...You are being far too PC,just as you have the right for children not to see such things..motor function in your eyes! other people also have the right to express their opinion,dont like it? too bad,i guess your whole world is about to dissolve into chaos because of a teenager wearing a band t-shirt...

This is a matter of freedom of speech. The reason that we have the right for freedom of speech is to protect EVERYONE from being discriminated against by others. This gives you the right to walk around calling Satan evil, wicked, a liar, etc. News for you though there are Satanists here, in YOUR city, and in YOUR neighbourhood that do get offended. Satanism has faced slander for thousands of years based on the fact that the Christian church established power during a period when mankind was in a weakened state. There is a reason behind the aggressive matter in which this shirt is depicted. Now that people are actually able to not believe in "God" without fear of being burned, beaten, stoned, or worse we are fully going to express our views. I DO think Jesus is a [SNIP].

I'm in no way disrespectful towards other human beings or nature. I live my life based on my own code which is based on respect and I am one of the nicest people you will ever meet in your life. But I also expect the same respect in return. You can wear a shirt with my name and my face on it saying I'm the ugliest, worst smelling, most vile human being you've ever seen and I would pat you on the back for having the guts to express yourself.

Pick up your panties and stop crying over every little thing. Get over yourselves and open your mind to other points of view. I won't deny that it is an offensive shirt. But who gives a flying [SNIP]?

Originally posted by Lethil
Anyway ashley,i have no children

Then let's pretend you did. Would you wear this t-shirt around your potential offspring? This will be telling for me so please be honest.

but there are far worse things for a child to see than a cartoon depiction of a nun masturbating etc

Ah, deflection. B...b...but there are WORSE things! So? There will always be worse things. But for right now, we are talking about this thing which happens to be the C word and an inappropriate image.

....it would be out of most childrens minds within 10 seconds...You are being far too PC,

Wow thanks! Usually I am accused of being a bigot around here so being accused of being P.C. is a nice change!

other people also have the right to express their opinion,dont like it? too bad,i guess your whole world is about to dissolve into chaos because of a teenager wearing a band t-shirt...

Amazing.

Do I not have 'the right to express my opinion even if you don't like it? Too bad.' This is my opinion. I am sorry 'your whole world will dissolve into chaos because' someone disagrees with you on a message forum.

It always humors me when people basically tell me, 'Shut up, Ashley! Everyone is entitled to their opinion!'

Oh, sweet irony....

reply to post by Lethil


Uh, have you seen the shirt? It wasn't a cartoon depiction. It was a black and white screen printed photograph of a nude woman wearing a habit and nothing else. It's a photograph that most businesses wouldn't be legally allowed to display without some sort of barrier between their "OK for everyone" section and "No children allowed" merchandise like this.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Thank you, Burdman. That is exactly what I just said above when I brought up adult stores. They have similar images inside their establishments and by law have to screen customers before allowing them to enter their businesses. They are not allowed display it publicly by law. There are restrictions for a reason. This man is not above the law and was therefore arrested.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by Lethil
Anyway ashley,i have no children

Then let's pretend you did. Would you wear this t-shirt around your potential offspring? This will be telling for me so please be honest.

but there are far worse things for a child to see than a cartoon depiction of a nun masturbating etc

Ah, deflection. B...b...but there are WORSE things! So? There will always be worse things. But for right now, we are talking about this thing which happens to be the C word and an inappropriate image.

....it would be out of most childrens minds within 10 seconds...You are being far too PC,

Wow thanks! Usually I am accused of being a bigot around here so being accused of being P.C. is a nice change!

other people also have the right to express their opinion,dont like it? too bad,i guess your whole world is about to dissolve into chaos because of a teenager wearing a band t-shirt...

Amazing.

Do I not have 'the right to express my opinion even if you don't like it? Too bad.' This is my opinion. I am sorry 'your whole world will dissolve into chaos because' someone disagrees with you on a message forum.

It always humors me when people basically tell me, 'Shut up, Ashley! Everyone is entitled to their opinion!'

Oh, sweet irony....

lol everyone can have an opinion,you dont like the t-shirt?...say you dont like the t-shirt just dont expect anyone to take you serious or repent and take off the t-shirt....I am also offended by alot of things,i let go with frienbds and family meembers,i would never actually go up to the person on the street..but i have every right to...again...you may not like it,but other people agree with it...again..use your eyes!..look away!! Ive had too amny beers so if im rambling..well...im probably rambling...

Originally posted by Lethil
lol everyone can have an opinion,you dont like the t-shirt?...say you dont like the t-shirt just dont expect anyone to take you serious or repent and take off the t-shirt....

That's exactly what I did, though. I never made a religious issue out of it and even stated in my first comment on this thread found on the previous page that the religious theme of the t-shirt was not the issue with me but the inappropriate content. I simply gave my opinion on the matter and backed it up with law in subsequent replies. I never demand that anyone agrees with me although, to be honest, I do find it shocking that so many are defending his right to wear such an offensive t-shirt.

Ive had too amny beers so if im rambling..well...im probably rambling...

I'm jealous! Hope you're having a good time, though.

reply to post by AshleyD

First of all, sorry if you felt like I was ridiculing you. You seem like a nice person and I would like to keep a civil tone in the thread if possible.

However my point still stands. The Taliban wants everything covered up because that is what they believe is decent. You want a few parts covered up because that is what you believe is decent. Same thing different degrees.

Needless to say if I had to choose poisons, I would much prefer yours. I'm not saying your version of things is that bad, just that it is influenced by religion and I don't personally like it...

Now let me address some of your points.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Same thing goes with sex. It is beautiful and natural, however, if I see a man and a woman in public having sex, I wouldn't be surprised to see them get arrested. Get it? There is a time and a place.

Sure they would, but not because of me calling the police.

However, you are wrongfully assuming I am prudish by thinking I have issues with nudity. I do not. I used the analogy of someone being publicly naked in our society because it is illegal.

OK. The law is prudish, not you. Same effect tough.

There is a reason why such things are out of public view- it is for decency and there are laws.

Your view of decency, not mine. Really, if something bothers me, I look away!

And although I have yet to see any nun porn inside those establishments [...]

There certainly is. Not that I would ever have gone into a such a place ofcourse! Someone told me... (blush)

Well, thanks for ridiculing me and comparing my opinion on this matter to the Taliban.

Sorry again.

Faces. The 'C' word and masturbation. Faces. The 'C' word and masturbation. Faces. C word/masturbation. Let's learn the difference. Freedom of expression... indecency.

Again. Same thing with different degrees of moralism. Again. Yours is much more tolerable than theirs.

oh, and I will ask you the same thing: Would you wear this around your child? If not, why not? If so, then please don't bother continuing our discussion.

OK, I'll have to say no then.

I actually wouldn't. I'm a graphic designer and I'll have to say, the typography on the back is simply dreadful. Also, the red text on the front is totally illegible and they cut of her left knee at the bottom of the picture.

Its ugly! I wouldn't want to be caught dead in it! I still totally disagree in banning it off the streets!

And for the the good old kid argument? I don't have any kids yet. I'm confident I will be a good enough parent to provide my future kids with "thick enough skin" to deal with this kind of stuff.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Would you wear this t-shirt around your child?

Yes, I would wear it around my child. What's your point?

Children can't be protected forever. I'd rather have a healthy discussion with my child about how the world works and how we can express ourselves as individuals.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Yes, I would wear it around my child. What's your point?

To figure out who was worth my time of having this discussion with and who was not. If someone is so warped to be willing to expose their own children to this, then I really don't see the possibility of having a healthy or intellectual discussion with them on this topic.

There is a huge difference between not coddling your children and not wanting to be over protective versus exposing them to filth.

Originally posted by AshleyD
There is a huge difference between not coddling your children and not wanting to be over protective versus exposing them to filth.

Give it twelve years and they'll be exposed to filth whether you like it or not. It's a parents' right to help educate their children to understand what to look at and what to avoid.

In my opinion, kids will see FAR WORSE on the 6pm TV news bulletin. It's a lot more offensive to see politicians lie their way into wars for profit.

Originally posted by gekko
First of all, sorry if you felt like I was ridiculing you. You seem like a nice person and I would like to keep a civil tone in the thread if possible.

Oh, I'll get over it! I just like being a cry baby sometimes. Seriously, though. I was not upset in the least.

Your view of decency, not mine. Really, if something bothers me, I look away!

To some extent I totally agree- which is why I rarely watch television but I don't protest the networks or anything. I turn it off an walk away. But how do you really turn away from something like this? When does it become that person's responsibility to censor themselves? There is a reason why the image of the t-shirt cannot be posted on ATS. It is because there are standards. Likewise, the laws prohibited this man from wearing it. Personally, I would not have arrested him for it but that police offer did and here we are discussing it. However, I do believe such a thing should not be displayed in public.

There certainly is.

Not that I would ever have gone into a such a place ofcourse! Someone told me... (blush)

Oh, me too! Me too! Everything I have saying about those places was told to me by... er... 'a friend.'

Thanks for keeping it friendly and it was nice to meet you!

Originally posted by tezzajw
Children can't be protected forever. I'd rather have a healthy discussion with my child about how the world works and how we can express ourselves as individuals.

See, as a parent, I take exception with attitudes like that. Why not let your kids hold onto their innocence for as long as they possibly can? You only get to be a little kid with bright eyes and big dreams for so long before the world dims your view and brings your dreams back down to Earth anyway. I can't imagine anyone wanting to shorten that precious time in a child's life, especially their own child's life.

Not trying to tell you how you should rear you children, just putting in my $0.02 worth...

Originally posted by AshleyD
Thanks for keeping it friendly and it was nice to meet you!

You to!

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
See, as a parent, I take exception with attitudes like that. Why not let your kids hold onto their innocence for as long as they possibly can? You only get to be a little kid with bright eyes and big dreams for so long before the world dims your view and brings your dreams back down to Earth anyway. I can't imagine anyone wanting to shorten that precious time in a child's life, especially their own child's life.

Well, it seems "the kids" argument needs addressing. This is my personal take on this.

I was raised extremely liberally. My parents were hippies. The kids would come everywhere and see all sorts of weird "hippie ****". I definitely saw nude adults. Everything we asked about was explained to us in an honest no bull manner, both good and bad things. It was the happiest time of my life.

When I was an older kid, or rather a young teen, I remember some of my friends had very strict religious parents. Where I'm from a liberal upbringing is the norm so they were not many, but I remember four. They were the four kids who always got into trouble. They would need pumping in hospital for drinking to much (all of them at various times). They would get arrested (two of them together, twice). And they would get STIs (two of them that I know of).

None of the liberally brought up kids ever got into that sort of trouble. It was like our upbringing had prepared us for young adulthood, while the "morally" brought up ones were suddenly exposed to a word they were not prepared for.

I'm not advocating exposing your child to all sorts of nastiness by design, but don't go out of your way to shield them from real life. Explain thing truthfully and straightforwardly and you might be surprised by the sharpness of their intellect. They will get exposed to stuff wether we want it or not. They're not morons. Don't do them the disfavor of treating them as such.

I know I would not have been harmed by seeing that shirt as a kid. I would have been puzzled, I would have asked an adult and I would have moved on.

If some kids are fragile enough to risk harm from a picture and some words, I am not very impressed with their parents.

Too much to quote.
But...

Would I wear this around my kids?

Hell yes! I do NOT want my child growing up to see Christ or Christians, or Christianity as a good thing. It's a sham and terrible.

I want them to question the world around them. I want them to grow up and understand why people do what they do, and not censor my child so he grows up to be a f'ing sheep!

If my child sees another person wearing that shirt, and came up to ask me what it is. I would explain every bit of it to him. Anything he wishes to learn and know, I will tell him.... why should I restrict knowledge from him?

I want my child to have a realistic idea of the way the world is. Not this fairytale play land that people dress it up for children to be. Thats why you still get people growing up religious. Cause you have parents that brainwash their children by having them "Born" a christian.

Noone is born into a religion, also I believe being baptized as a baby is WRONG!!!!



[edit on 26-6-2008 by GrimTroll]

Mistake post.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by GrimTroll]