Atlantis is Cuba and the Americas?

There is one piece of evidence that absolutely proves that there was no advanced sea-faring society in the america's.
Tobacco, or actualy the lack of it in the old world. Tobacco is native to the carribean and to cuba in particular.
If there had been a ocean going trade based society in the carribean, they certainly would have spread their tobacco every where they went.

It only took a couple of visits to the carribean for the Europeans to bring it back to europe.

I personaly believe that there was a very early sea faring society, maybe even as far back as the time period in question.
But it was not in the americas or europe, but in south east asia.
There are very intriguing archealogical "anomolies" that have yet to be fully studied or explained.
The Yanoguni find is very interesting, if it proves to be man made then it will re-write human history.
And while most of the rest of the world was still hunter-gatherers, they were plying the coastal waters of the pacific and indian oceans.
There are some interesting cutural commonalities around the world that raise some questions.
GTG
I'll continue later.

Plato describes the city of Atlantis or a city of atlantis as circular having rings etc.

Interesting, in Mexico there is a place called... Tiny Mexcaltitan is less than a mile around and sits in the middle of a Nayarit coastal lagoon of the same name. It's said to be Aztlan, the cradle of Aztec civilization and the traditional birthplace of the Mexican people. We'd been hearing how funky the place is, so we decided to venture outside the bay and check it out for ourselves.

Here is a pic.

The Mexicans revere this island as the place they left on their Odyssey to the Valley of Mexico, where they built their Atlantesh called Tenochtitlan (now Mexico City). Notice that the circular shape and canal streets of Mexcaltitán are nearly exactly like Plato's description of the particular "Atlantesh" for which we are searching.

Many patriotic Mexicans want to be buried just off the shores of Mexcaltitán, near the present day coastal village of San Pedro Aztatlán, which most people erroneously call "Aztlán," In Sanskrit, Aztatlán means "Place by the water where the sun sets in the west." However, in Nahuatl it means "Place of Many Herons."

www.viewzone.com...
[FIGURE 8. THE ATLANTESH OF JANITZIO, A VILLAGE LOCATED IN THE MIDDLE OF Lake Patzcuaro, Michoacán.]
www.viewzone.com...

So there seems to be some evidence to support plato story of what atlantis might of looked like. Rememeber, we are talking 10,000- 30,000 b.c possibly.

I understand that this is not cuba but lends creadence to the idea of building practices being shared over the continet and also answers why there isnt too much evidence of a super city in Cuba because if they were at all built like the modern day city pictured above would almost be totally earased if struck by global or a localized inundation.

The finds in Binimi and surrounding are looks promising.


[edit on 28-6-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 28-6-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by IvanZana


Archealogical evidence and know cultural history clearly show that the Mexica, the people known to the modern world as the Aztecs were recent arrivals to the central mexican plateau, having arrived from the northern mexico/american soutwest in around 1100 ad.
They eventually came to dominance over the other tribes in the area.
Their arrival in the land that was to bear there name coincides with the collapse of the Anasazi cultures in what is said to be thier home land.
The mexica absolutly did not come from the coast they came from the continental deserts of north america.
Mexica legend says that they fled to the south to escape a tryanical preist.
There is newly uncovered evidence that suggests that there was at least a trading link between the cliff dwellings of the american southwest and the central mexican plateau.
Digs in arizona and colorado have uncovered the feathers of birds only found in central mexico, and examples of meso-american pottery.
And at a site in New mexico, a site that has clearly shown signs of mass canabalism, skeletons have been found, with sharpend teeth a trait common to the ruling classes of the mexica. These skeletons were buried intact in a grave, not butchered and left strewn around like many other skeletons in the area.

That whole thing with Naryit, claiming to be the "birth place of the mexicans" didnt even come around until 1990's, and it has been soundly denounced by the mexican archeoligical community.

Originally posted by punkinworks
reply to post by IvanZana

 

Archealogical evidence and know cultural history clearly show that the Mexica, the people known to the modern world as the Aztecs were recent arrivals to the central mexican plateau, having arrived from the northern mexico/american soutwest in around 1100 ad.

Out of thin air did they appear?

Why did they migrate?

Where were they before the flood?

Its obvious this thread hurts your head for you do not understand much of whats presented. Your intent on debunking just bores everyone.


The stories of Atlantis and the old testement is of the antedeluvian world, meaning, before 8000 - 10000 b.c.

Ancient pyramids and structures in the americas date anywhere from A.D - 14,0000 b.c. (esitmated age of tiwanaku in Bolivia).


Your weak attempts to convince yourself that the ancient americas had nothing great before the Columbus incindent is a sad one.

There is ample evidence that supports the theory that the ancients knew of the whole world as we know it today and sailed and traded between continents millenia before columbus.

Your lack of knowledge and education in this field has become evident. Your opinions are really dead ends and offer no information but just a reflection of you inner problems with emotions and understanding information outside of the average thought.

Research..... one day you will come around.




[edit on 28-6-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by punkinworks



Yep the lack of tobacco and more importantly maize and the potato not moving across is damning.

Of course we can see a good example of this which was confirmed just recently. The Polynesians got to South America and left chickens and took back the sweet potato.

Out of thin air did they appear?

Hans: Most if not all cultures come from somewhere but it is virtually impossible to locate their exact “start point”. So can you tell us where they came from - with evidence?

Why did they migrate?

Hans: Stated in the early message by Punkinwork (good material and logic by the way P)

Where were they before the flood?

Hans: What flood?

Its obvious this thread hurts your head for you do not understand much of whats presented. Your intent on debunking just bores everyone.

Hans: Ivanzana you seem to have a problem with anyone disagreeing with you. Are you sure you are emotionally mature enough to post on a discussion board? You appear to be incapable of debate? Refuse criticism and don't reply to questions.

The stories of Atlantis and the old testement is of the antedeluvian world, meaning, before 8000 - 10000 b.c. Ancient pyramids and structures in the americas date anywhere from A.D - 14,0000 b.c. (esitmated age of tiwanaku in Bolivia).

Hans: There is no such dating, the earliest structures known in the meso America and the south are at Caral with structures there back to 5,000 BCE. The 14,000 year date is made up - why don't you research that?

Your weak attempts to convince yourself that the ancient americas had nothing great before the Columbus incindent is a sad one.

Hans: he didn’t say that Ivanzana you seem to like to put words in peoples mouth and then dismiss what YOU MADE UP.

There is ample evidence that supports the theory that the ancients knew of the whole world as we know it today and sailed and traded between continents millenia before columbus.

Hans: The why don’t you represent it instead of yapping about it?

Your lack of knowledge and education in this field has become evident. Your opinions are really dead ends and offer no information but just a reflection of you inner problems with emotions and understanding information outside of the average thought.

Hans: Ivanzana I would recommend that you are unsuitable for posting on this board – you are to emotional and too immature. You make up stuff, lie and ignore corrections to your obvious errors. Is there some point to a non discussion thread?

Research..... one day you will come around.

Hans: Translation what Ivanzana calls research we call making stuff up and ignoring anything that disagrees with him. Ie a classic closed mind. So Punkinwork I recommend you stop all research, believe unquestionably everything he says and drink heavily.

See your last post was just pathetic.

This thread is about the idea of Atlantis is Cuba for there is some evidence to support it.

You have not offered anything in this thread but the same ole copy paste debunking that makes reading certatin threads on ATS really annoying and worthy of going somehwere else.

The information presented in this thread is not only informative but is also a compilation of many authors.

If you dont like me or this thread or the idea that people could of and probaly sailed across the Atlantic before 1500 A.D that you just have proven yourself to be ignorant and really lame.

Your like that little whiney kids in the car, whining about everything, how he doesnt fit in the back seat, how his butt is sore, asking where we going and disrepecting the car every 2 seconds.

Granted your butts sore and your intolerant to new things but we dont have to hear your version of ignorance to well researched material from experts.

Go read a book.



[edit on 29-6-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 29-6-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 29-6-2008 by IvanZana]

Now with a little respect I would like to ask you...



Zana: The stories of Atlantis and the old testement is of the antedeluvian world, meaning, before 8000 - 10000 b.c. Ancient pyramids and structures in the americas date anywhere from A.D - 14,0000 b.c.

Hans: There is no such dating, the earliest structures known in the meso America and the south are at Caral with structures there back to 5,000 BCE. The 14,000 year date is made up - why don't you research that?

Now from what i learned is that the Caral was just recently found with the estimated age of 5-7,000 years old. Thats is amazing, i am sure we can agree on that. Also carbon dating is not alway accurate.

What was the oldest structure in the Americas before the finding of Caral?

Do you think mabey that the stories of Atlantis were really an over sensationalised version of MesoAmerica?

Do you think it was possible for man to have traveled to and from the americas to the old world in the in the thousands of years before columbus ?

What do you think of all the ancient , NON MesoAmerica, pre -columbus coins, viking atrefacts, druid, and other odd pre columbian writings, drawings, oral and written histories of pre columbian travels to the 'New World"?

Is it mere coincidence that there are step pyramids around the world like that found in the Americas?

Is it mere coincidence that the peoples of the earth before 1500 A.D all built structures that were not only astronomically orientated but amazingly engineered and similar all over the world?

I look forward to the answers but I will not debunk them. They could be your opinion or that of other investigators which is all good. All information should be consumed and let the power of the human mind sort it out.

Ive seen your other threads of " did aliens or atlanteans build the parthenon" , "700,000 year old civilization found" and "is there a conspiracy to supress ancient knowledge." So this thread should not be a streach for someone who claims to be open to possibilities.

[edit on 29-6-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by IvanZana



Wow! Thanks for the picture IvanZana. In the past I thought it was interesting that the Aztecs were compelled to build their city, Tenochtitlan, on a area surrounded by water, just like Atlantis.

I see a connection with Tyre as well. That city was also surrouned by water.

Alexander the Great connects the mainland to the Island of Tyre

Originally posted by dgtempe
I went to first and second grade in Havana.
I was taught that the southern half of Cuba was underwater due to a cataclysm. The land mass was much larger, the largest part under water now.
I never forgot that bit of information.

Edit to add: I also remember learning about the early Indians on the island- they were called Indios Putumayos (Mayos=Mayan) I have no idea why it was preceeded by the word Putu.
Maybe someone else knows?

[edit on 25-6-2008 by dgtempe]

I wish I could remeber where and when I saw a show on TV and it was about a submerged city off the coast of Cuba under a few thousand feet of water. If I remeber right it said there were pyramid type buildings and temples.

I have done searches in the past and I haven't found anything, this is the first time I have seen something anything close.

I am in the Tampa, Florida area and I hunt artifacts in the area. I am finding arrowheads from 8000BC. This just makes me believe that there is so much more out there that still hasn't been found.

Now from what i learned is that the Caral was just recently found with the estimated age of 5-7,000 years old. Thats is amazing, i am sure we can agree on that. Also carbon dating is not alway accurate. What was the oldest structure in the Americas before the finding of Caral?

Hans: Depends on what you consider to be a structure! The 14,000 year date is a bogus one. pseudoscientists advancing these ideas were fond of ascribing an immense age to Tiwanaku, on the order of 15000 years. Posnansky, Arthur. Tiahuanacu: The Cradle of American Man (4 vol., 1945–58). J. J. Augustin, New York, 1945.

Do you think mabey that the stories of Atlantis were really an over sensationalised version of MesoAmerica?

Hans: It cannot be proven either way but I would be skeptical of it. It could likely be a distant memory of Harappa or China.

Do you think it was possible for man to have traveled to and from the americas to the old world in the in the thousands of years before columbus ?

Hans: The Norse and Polynesian did it. If anyone else did they left no trace in the new world or the old. Based on the known technology of the old world at that time if a ship did managed to get to the new world – or vice versa, it probably didn’t get back.

What do you think of all the ancient , NON MesoAmerica, pre -columbus coins, viking atrefacts, druid, and other odd pre columbian writings, drawings, oral and written histories of pre columbian travels to the 'New World"?

Hans: You basically quoted the entire Corliss, Ripley and Forean story line. They are best taken one by one. In general I don’t find any of them compelling, many are fakes.

Is it mere coincidence that there are step pyramids around the world like that found in the Americas?

Hans: Yes it’s the simplest way to build a structure that is tall and stable – a common solution to a common challenge.

Is it mere coincidence that the peoples of the earth before 1500 A.D all built structures that were not only astronomically orientated but amazingly engineered and similar all over the world?

Hans: Farmers have a desperate need to know the date – and the season, they must know when to plant and harvest. The best way to do so was based on the experience of watching the stars, planets and moon, those patterns could be used to determine these valuable dates. It meant there lives- they paid attention.

Ive seen your other threads of " did aliens or atlanteans build the parthenon" , "700,000 year old civilization found" and "is there a conspiracy to supress ancient knowledge." So this thread should not be a streach for someone who claims to be open to possibilities.

Hans: I prefer facts to speculation that ignores such facts. Speculation is best done based on what is known not what is against what is known, when you do that you enter fantasy. For the Parthenon I was kidding.

There is another thread with roughly the same topic.


Hansulame's opinions and posts on the matter in this didnt allow for healthy, mature discussion on the matter.

Hollywood. if you would like to use some of my information and pictures I created, you can.


People just have to learn to ignore the flat earthers like Han.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by IvanZana]

Hansulame's opinions and posts on the matter in this didnt allow for healthy, mature discussion on the matter.

Hans: Translation from Ivanzana speak to reality. ‘I want to make up stuff and act like its factual based”. I would point out that your first message stated you didn't want contraopinion.

People just have to learn to ignore the flat earthers like Han.

Hans: Gosh, making up stuff again Ivanzana? So I’m a flat earther now? Wow, to bad I don’t actually believe that. But gee you like making up stuff and acting like it's real don’t you? LOL

Read about things like phytoliths which can tell you a great deal about the place you're trying to shoehorn a civilization into.

[edit on 7/7/08 by Hanslune]

Han, you write and think like a really old man.

Your not very smart though you claim yourself to be so with your boring attempts to stroke your ego in these threads.

Im letting you kill this thread.

Hunslane's views " atlantis is not real"
"the ancients were to stupid to sail the atlantics"
"The native americans were to stupid to be the atlanteans"
"They pyramids in mexico and in egypt and their astrononimical
alignments and galatic calculations were just for farming"

Shall i continue to loosely quote your ignorant views on a subject that seems to hurt your head?





P.s

There is another Atlantis Cuba thread. If would like to attempt to defile another thread you have proved to be outside of your thinking abilities and imagination, dont!, Just post it here.

I am sure hollywood would love for you to tell him how stupid his thread is and the information pertaining to it.



[edit on 7-7-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 7-7-2008 by IvanZana]

Your not very smart though you claim yourself to be so with your boring attempts to stroke your ego in these threads.

Hans: No I don’t make that claim – you just made that up

Im letting you kill this thread.

Hans: no you are killing the tread by abandoning it if you wish. I would suggest you dig up some facts or try and refute the facts I posted. I will continue to ask questions and post facts

Hunslane's views " atlantis is not real"

Hans: False again, why do you make stuff up so much Ivanzana?

My position is Atlantis is not proven, it possible it might have existed but not probable.

"the ancients were to stupid to sail the atlantics"

Hans: False again, why do you create false statements and attribute them to people? My position, what we know of their naval technology makes such trips unlikely but not impossible. There is no evidence of ancient naval travel between the old and new world

"The native americans were to stupid to be the atlanteans"

Hans: Sigh more made up stuff from the master of making stuff up. The Native Americans were very intelligent and created superb civilizations and cultures. It's to bad you have such a level of disrepect for their culture that you don't study it and report what they really did.

"They pyramids in mexico and in egypt and their astrononimical
alignments and galatic calculations were just for farming"

Hans: Hey partially correct, the ones in Egypt were tombs, the ones in Mesoamerica were temples and occasionally tombs. They used other sites for astronomical observation (but the Mesoamerican could have done such work from the top of pyramid)

Shall i continue to loosely quote your ignorant views on a subject that seems to hurt your head?

Hans: it would help if you’d actually quote me correctly. You appear to be deliberately mispresenting what I've said. Wait I’ll give you an example of how to quote someone.

Originally posted by IvanZana

All the history and texts, tablets, engravings, scrolls from the mayans, aztecs, peruvians were destroyed during the spanish inquisition.

Hans: And as I pointed out early not all the Mayan books were destroyed, and thousands of engravings, texts and tablets exist - for someone who says they have studied these people- this quote makes lie of that claim.

reply to post by IvanZana


Nice thread, you've piquéd my interest with this:

"The newest expeditions have been to Andros. Eight expeditions have been to Andros with the 2004 information posted here. In addition, there are 10 free Quicktime video clips from the video documentary available here. A report on the first 2004 expedition to Andros can be found here. Free video from both the Andros Platform and Bimini Road, taken after the 2004 hurricanes, can be found here."

First off, whats the 'Andros platform'? I've never heard of this and I will be looking it up, but first, did you know the Navy's AUTEC (The Atlantic Underwater Test and Evaluation Centre) is on Andros? If memory serves, this is the 'Area 51' of the US navy.

An excerpt from their website:

"The mission of AUTEC is to support the full spectrum of undersea warfare by providing accurate three-dimensional tracking, performance measurement, and data collection resources to satisfy Research, Development, Test and Evaluation requirements, and for assessment of Fleet training, tactical and material readiness."

Also, from AUTEC assets page:

"# A buoyant vehicle, deep-water haul down site with data collection capability.
# Andros and West Palm Beach Real-Time Range Test Display Centers.
# Remote and Portable Real-Time Range Display Systems and Software (PARGOS/PCARGOS)
# Extensive data reduction and data processing systems and facilities.
# Computerized Mk 46 and Mk 48 torpedo simulators to minimize Fleet training costs.
# Post-test debrief/replay display systems.
# Open-ocean research vessels, range craft and small boats.
# Helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft.
# Fixed, mobile, and deployable targets, noise sources, and transponders.

Always interested me, when I found out they chose this island for a naval installation, let alone, the supposed 'Area 51' of the navy. Would make sense if something was discovered on Andros, to build an installation around it, especially if the 'discovery' couldn't be moved, and would have to be studied in the field.

EMM

Edit to add: Link! and also to add, sorry if this has been said, on page 2

www.npt.nuwc.navy.mil...

Edit again to ask punkinworks:

"Some people seem to continue to confuse a flip of the earths magnetic field polarity, with an actual movement of the earths crust or change in its rotational axis.
The earths magnetic field changes polarity on a fairly regular basis, regular on a geologic time frame (20 million years), and is currently in the process of flipping, there are places in the south atlantic and indian ocean where the local polarity has already flipped.
The mechanism for the flip has a mechanical cause but the actual flip is purely electromagnetic in nature. "

I was wondering, the magnetic shift of the poles could effect the equatorial climate would it not? Aswell as shift the temperature at the poles, maybe not by much, be enough to allow it to melt somewhat, as seen in greenland recently? just a possibility.


[edit on 2-10-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 2-10-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

Ok, more info, been looking for a bit last night and this morning, found some interesting information. There was a discovery (or several from what I've read) off the coast of Andros in 1969, this I'm guessing is the 'Andros platform', many rectangular/square stones laid out on the sea bed, this was only patially explored from my understanding, then they went to Bimini. No other mention, until 34 years later, in 1992, a wall, found under 12 feet of water, was discovered, similar to Bimini wall. The 'harbour' or 'quay' has been estimated to be around 10,000 years old, it's dimensions are in the info below.

Plenty of info here: books.google.co.uk...
More info, this time on AUTEC and supposed sightings around there, I'm actually looking for the date the AUTEC facility was built, I'll bet my right testicle it was early 70's.

"The Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Center (AUTEC), the American naval base on the Bahamas island of Andros, and that some researchers believed AUTEC might be an underwater "Area 51"- a place where secret research was being carried out on UFOs by the American government, and which, from time to time, was even visited by UFOs. It is located 177 miles southeast of West Palm Beach, Florida, at Andros Island and the Tongue of the Ocean, in Bahamas.

The Andros Island AUTEC test facility-access to which must be obtained beforehand - covers only one square mile on land, but actually comprises 1,670 square miles of the surrounding Caribbean. This ocean area is a steep-sided deep-water embayment 100 miles long and 20 miles wide, with depths varying from 700 fathoms at the "rim" to 1,100 fathoms (more than a mile) at the northern end. By any reckoning, this is a huge amount of underwater space.

The Andros base has an ultra-top secret caliber of security. In the waters off Andros island, strange craft have been seen from time to time which not only resemble UFOs, but which display the same unbelievable swiftness of motion and execute the same incredibly sharp turns."

From: ufoexperiences.blogspot.com...


And one more, before I go out, this is through a link I found on the blog, at first, it wasn't really related, but the reply was quite interesting:

"Published on:
2005-11-09

Dr. Michael Preisinger

A German historian/scuba diver has recorded the exact location and value of deviations in magnetic fields off the Bahamas coast. Scientists to whom he has shown the figures do not dismiss the possibility that they are caused by micro-wormholes. His researches have also led him to wonder whether the American AUTEC naval base on Andros Island is not-perhaps on account of these same wormholes-an "Underwater Area 51 of the Caribbean." And he has reached some new conclusions concerning Atlantis and the Bahamas.

Oceans of ink have been spilt over the subject of the Bermuda Triangle, that apparent paranormal grab-bag of missing vessels (hundreds of ships and scores of planes), deviations in the magnetic field, abrupt outpourings of fog, UFO sightings far above the national average-and much, much more. A vast amount of pure speculation has accompanied these reports, the most controversial being that the Bahamas archipelago is comprised of the mountaintops and higher areas of the lost continent of Atlantis, sunk beneath these waters millennia ago."

There is more and it is quite interesting, I suggest reading it, something is definetley going on at AUTEC, if you ask me.

EMM

Edit to add:

"I was further told that many of the sightings took place near the Atlantic Undersea Test and Evaluation Center (AUTEC), the American naval base on the Bahamas island of Andros, and that some researchers believed AUTEC might be an underwater "Area 51"- a place where secret research was being carried out on UFOs by the American government, and which, from time to time, was even visited by UFOs."

This site is only 1 square mile on land, but it is around 1,670 square miles of open sea, thats alot of distance, and alot of underwater exploring to be had, goes up to a mile deep aswell at some parts.

"I learned from more than one source that the Andros base has an ultra-top secret caliber of security. Here is an illustration. In 1997, a group of duck-hunters-who, admittedly, had walked right by a PROHIBITED AREA sign less than a mile from the base-suddenly found themselves confronting an unusually thick wall of foliage. At that very moment, they were knocked off their feet and their faces thrust into the ground.

The hapless duck-hunters quickly discovered that the foliage contained sailors in heavy camouflage, and that other sailors, leaping out of the foliage behind them, had hurled them to the ground. Taken to a nearby tent, they were grilled by a colonel for hours, until they were certain they would be thrown into prison. Then, abruptly, the officer released them, declaring, "I believe your story."

www.greatdreams.com...

[edit on 3-10-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 3-10-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

[edit on 3-10-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

what about this:

plain of atlantis??
capital of atlantis?

reply to post by justabone


I don't know German. Can you please translate a summary in English?
It looks like the site will put up an English version soon, but not soon enough. From what I can read the information was just added yesterday. I look forward to their findings.