Atlantis is Cuba and the Americas?

There is one piece of evidence that absolutely proves that there was no advanced sea-faring society in the america's.
Tobacco, or actualy the lack of it in the old world. Tobacco is native to the carribean and to cuba in particular.
If there had been a ocean going trade based society in the carribean, they certainly would have spread their tobacco every where they went.

It only took a couple of visits to the carribean for the Europeans to bring it back to europe.

I personaly believe that there was a very early sea faring society, maybe even as far back as the time period in question.
But it was not in the americas or europe, but in south east asia.
There are very intriguing archealogical "anomolies" that have yet to be fully studied or explained.
The Yanoguni find is very interesting, if it proves to be man made then it will re-write human history.
And while most of the rest of the world was still hunter-gatherers, they were plying the coastal waters of the pacific and indian oceans.
There are some interesting cutural commonalities around the world that raise some questions.
GTG
I'll continue later.

Plato describes the city of Atlantis or a city of atlantis as circular having rings etc.

Interesting, in Mexico there is a place called... Tiny Mexcaltitan is less than a mile around and sits in the middle of a Nayarit coastal lagoon of the same name. It's said to be Aztlan, the cradle of Aztec civilization and the traditional birthplace of the Mexican people. We'd been hearing how funky the place is, so we decided to venture outside the bay and check it out for ourselves.

Here is a pic.
www.viewzone.com...
[FIGURE 8. THE ATLANTESH OF JANITZIO, A VILLAGE LOCATED IN THE MIDDLE OF Lake Patzcuaro, Michoacán.]
www.viewzone.com...

So there seems to be some evidence to support plato story of what atlantis might of looked like. Rememeber, we are talking 10,000- 30,000 b.c possibly.

I understand that this is not cuba but lends creadence to the idea of building practices being shared over the continet and also answers why there isnt too much evidence of a super city in Cuba because if they were at all built like the modern day city pictured above would almost be totally earased if struck by global or a localized inundation.

The finds in Binimi and surrounding are looks promising.


[edit on 28-6-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 28-6-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by IvanZana

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Archealogical evidence and know cultural history clearly show that the Mexica, the people known to the modern world as the Aztecs were recent arrivals to the central mexican plateau, having arrived from the northern mexico/american soutwest in around 1100 ad.
They eventually came to dominance over the other tribes in the area.
Their arrival in the land that was to bear there name coincides with the collapse of the Anasazi cultures in what is said to be thier home land.
The mexica absolutly did not come from the coast they came from the continental deserts of north america.
Mexica legend says that they fled to the south to escape a tryanical preist.
There is newly uncovered evidence that suggests that there was at least a trading link between the cliff dwellings of the american southwest and the central mexican plateau.
Digs in arizona and colorado have uncovered the feathers of birds only found in central mexico, and examples of meso-american pottery.
And at a site in New mexico, a site that has clearly shown signs of mass canabalism, skeletons have been found, with sharpend teeth a trait common to the ruling classes of the mexica. These skeletons were buried intact in a grave, not butchered and left strewn around like many other skeletons in the area.

That whole thing with Naryit, claiming to be the "birth place of the mexicans" didnt even come around until 1990's, and it has been soundly denounced by the mexican archeoligical community.

Out of thin air did they appear?

Why did they migrate?

Where were they before the flood?

Its obvious this thread hurts your head for you do not understand much of whats presented. Your intent on debunking just bores everyone.


The stories of Atlantis and the old testement is of the antedeluvian world, meaning, before 8000 - 10000 b.c.

Ancient pyramids and structures in the americas date anywhere from A.D - 14,0000 b.c. (esitmated age of tiwanaku in Bolivia).


Your weak attempts to convince yourself that the ancient americas had nothing great before the Columbus incindent is a sad one.

There is ample evidence that supports the theory that the ancients knew of the whole world as we know it today and sailed and traded between continents millenia before columbus.

Your lack of knowledge and education in this field has become evident. Your opinions are really dead ends and offer no information but just a reflection of you inner problems with emotions and understanding information outside of the average thought.

Research..... one day you will come around.




[edit on 28-6-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by punkinworks

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Yep the lack of tobacco and more importantly maize and the potato not moving across is damning.

Of course we can see a good example of this which was confirmed just recently. The Polynesians got to South America and left chickens and took back the sweet potato.

Hans: Most if not all cultures come from somewhere but it is virtually impossible to locate their exact “start point”. So can you tell us where they came from - with evidence?




Hans: Stated in the early message by Punkinwork (good material and logic by the way P)



Hans: What flood?



Hans: Ivanzana you seem to have a problem with anyone disagreeing with you. Are you sure you are emotionally mature enough to post on a discussion board? You appear to be incapable of debate? Refuse criticism and don't reply to questions.




Hans: There is no such dating, the earliest structures known in the meso America and the south are at Caral with structures there back to 5,000 BCE. The 14,000 year date is made up - why don't you research that?




Hans: he didn’t say that Ivanzana you seem to like to put words in peoples mouth and then dismiss what YOU MADE UP.




Hans: The why don’t you represent it instead of yapping about it?




Hans: Ivanzana I would recommend that you are unsuitable for posting on this board – you are to emotional and too immature. You make up stuff, lie and ignore corrections to your obvious errors. Is there some point to a non discussion thread?



Hans: Translation what Ivanzana calls research we call making stuff up and ignoring anything that disagrees with him. Ie a classic closed mind. So Punkinwork I recommend you stop all research, believe unquestionably everything he says and drink heavily.

See your last post was just pathetic.

This thread is about the idea of Atlantis is Cuba for there is some evidence to support it.

You have not offered anything in this thread but the same ole copy paste debunking that makes reading certatin threads on ATS really annoying and worthy of going somehwere else.

The information presented in this thread is not only informative but is also a compilation of many authors.

If you dont like me or this thread or the idea that people could of and probaly sailed across the Atlantic before 1500 A.D that you just have proven yourself to be ignorant and really lame.

Your like that little whiney kids in the car, whining about everything, how he doesnt fit in the back seat, how his butt is sore, asking where we going and disrepecting the car every 2 seconds.

Granted your butts sore and your intolerant to new things but we dont have to hear your version of ignorance to well researched material from experts.

Go read a book.



[edit on 29-6-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 29-6-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 29-6-2008 by IvanZana]

Now with a little respect I would like to ask you...



Zana: The stories of Atlantis and the old testement is of the antedeluvian world, meaning, before 8000 - 10000 b.c. Ancient pyramids and structures in the americas date anywhere from A.D - 14,0000 b.c.

Hans: There is no such dating, the earliest structures known in the meso America and the south are at Caral with structures there back to 5,000 BCE. The 14,000 year date is made up - why don't you research that?

Now from what i learned is that the Caral was just recently found with the estimated age of 5-7,000 years old. Thats is amazing, i am sure we can agree on that. Also carbon dating is not alway accurate.

What was the oldest structure in the Americas before the finding of Caral?

Do you think mabey that the stories of Atlantis were really an over sensationalised version of MesoAmerica?

Do you think it was possible for man to have traveled to and from the americas to the old world in the in the thousands of years before columbus ?

What do you think of all the ancient , NON MesoAmerica, pre -columbus coins, viking atrefacts, druid, and other odd pre columbian writings, drawings, oral and written histories of pre columbian travels to the 'New World"?

Is it mere coincidence that there are step pyramids around the world like that found in the Americas?

Is it mere coincidence that the peoples of the earth before 1500 A.D all built structures that were not only astronomically orientated but amazingly engineered and similar all over the world?

I look forward to the answers but I will not debunk them. They could be your opinion or that of other investigators which is all good. All information should be consumed and let the power of the human mind sort it out.

Ive seen your other threads of " did aliens or atlanteans build the parthenon" , "700,000 year old civilization found" and "is there a conspiracy to supress ancient knowledge." So this thread should not be a streach for someone who claims to be open to possibilities.

[edit on 29-6-2008 by IvanZana]

reply to post by IvanZana

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Wow! Thanks for the picture IvanZana. In the past I thought it was interesting that the Aztecs were compelled to build their city, Tenochtitlan, on a area surrounded by water, just like Atlantis.

I see a connection with Tyre as well. That city was also surrouned by water.

Alexander the Great connects the mainland to the Island of Tyre

I wish I could remeber where and when I saw a show on TV and it was about a submerged city off the coast of Cuba under a few thousand feet of water. If I remeber right it said there were pyramid type buildings and temples.

I have done searches in the past and I haven't found anything, this is the first time I have seen something anything close.

I am in the Tampa, Florida area and I hunt artifacts in the area. I am finding arrowheads from 8000BC. This just makes me believe that there is so much more out there that still hasn't been found.

Hans: Depends on what you consider to be a structure! The 14,000 year date is a bogus one. pseudoscientists advancing these ideas were fond of ascribing an immense age to Tiwanaku, on the order of 15000 years. Posnansky, Arthur. Tiahuanacu: The Cradle of American Man (4 vol., 1945–58). J. J. Augustin, New York, 1945.



Hans: It cannot be proven either way but I would be skeptical of it. It could likely be a distant memory of Harappa or China.




Hans: The Norse and Polynesian did it. If anyone else did they left no trace in the new world or the old. Based on the known technology of the old world at that time if a ship did managed to get to the new world – or vice versa, it probably didn’t get back.




Hans: You basically quoted the entire Corliss, Ripley and Forean story line. They are best taken one by one. In general I don’t find any of them compelling, many are fakes.




Hans: Yes it’s the simplest way to build a structure that is tall and stable – a common solution to a common challenge.




Hans: Farmers have a desperate need to know the date – and the season, they must know when to plant and harvest. The best way to do so was based on the experience of watching the stars, planets and moon, those patterns could be used to determine these valuable dates. It meant there lives- they paid attention.




Hans: I prefer facts to speculation that ignores such facts. Speculation is best done based on what is known not what is against what is known, when you do that you enter fantasy. For the Parthenon I was kidding.

There is another thread with roughly the same topic.


Hansulame's opinions and posts on the matter in this didnt allow for healthy, mature discussion on the matter.

Hollywood. if you would like to use some of my information and pictures I created, you can.


People just have to learn to ignore the flat earthers like Han.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by IvanZana]

Hans: Translation from Ivanzana speak to reality. ‘I want to make up stuff and act like its factual based”. I would point out that your first message stated you didn't want contraopinion.



Hans: Gosh, making up stuff again Ivanzana? So I’m a flat earther now? Wow, to bad I don’t actually believe that. But gee you like making up stuff and acting like it's real don’t you? LOL

Read about things like phytoliths which can tell you a great deal about the place you're trying to shoehorn a civilization into.

[edit on 7/7/08 by Hanslune]

Han, you write and think like a really old man.

Your not very smart though you claim yourself to be so with your boring attempts to stroke your ego in these threads.

Im letting you kill this thread.

Hunslane's views " atlantis is not real"
"the ancients were to stupid to sail the atlantics"
"The native americans were to stupid to be the atlanteans"
"They pyramids in mexico and in egypt and their astrononimical
alignments and galatic calculations were just for farming"

Shall i continue to loosely quote your ignorant views on a subject that seems to hurt your head?





P.s

There is another Atlantis Cuba thread. If would like to attempt to defile another thread you have proved to be outside of your thinking abilities and imagination, dont!, Just post it here.

I am sure hollywood would love for you to tell him how stupid his thread is and the information pertaining to it.



[edit on 7-7-2008 by IvanZana]

[edit on 7-7-2008 by IvanZana]

Hans: No I don’t make that claim – you just made that up



Hans: no you are killing the tread by abandoning it if you wish. I would suggest you dig up some facts or try and refute the facts I posted. I will continue to ask questions and post facts



Hans: False again, why do you make stuff up so much Ivanzana?






Hans: False again, why do you create false statements and attribute them to people? My position, what we know of their naval technology makes such trips unlikely but not impossible. There is no evidence of ancient naval travel between the old and new world



Hans: Sigh more made up stuff from the master of making stuff up. The Native Americans were very intelligent and created superb civilizations and cultures. It's to bad you have such a level of disrepect for their culture that you don't study it and report what they really did.



Hans: Hey partially correct, the ones in Egypt were tombs, the ones in Mesoamerica were temples and occasionally tombs. They used other sites for astronomical observation (but the Mesoamerican could have done such work from the top of pyramid)



Hans: it would help if you’d actually quote me correctly. You appear to be deliberately mispresenting what I've said. Wait I’ll give you an example of how to quote someone.




Hans: And as I pointed out early not all the Mayan books were destroyed, and thousands of engravings, texts and tablets exist - for someone who says they have studied these people- this quote makes lie of that claim.