Obama flip-flops (he don't stop)

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posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 09:23 PM
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a) his condemnation of union contributions to the Clinton and Edwards campaigns as "special interest money" but his eager acceptance of such money for himself as coming from representatives of the "working people";

b) his flip on ending (January 2004) then retaining (August 2007) the Cuba embargo;

c) his March 2004 statement that opposed a crackdown on businesses hiring illegal immigrants, compared with his Jan. 31, 2008, debate statement endorsing such a crackdown;

d) his advocating the decriminalization of marijuana in January 2004 versus his Oct. 30, 2007, position opposing its decriminalization;

e) his jaw-dropping same-day flip on having Jerusalem remain the undivided capital of Israel;

f) his shameless reversal on NAFTA;

g) his nearly immediate backtracking on whether Iran poses a serious threat to America;

h) his progressive position shifts on Iraq — as documented by Peter Wehner and Michael Barone — from "don't go in, stay in, and get out";

i) and his vigorous defense then abandonment of both his pastor and his church.

j) His pledged committment with his signature to oppose private campaign funding, then going back on his word later to accept private sector funding from Corporations and Hollywood.

k) First supporting Muslims, but upon learning is bad for his image in Patriotic America, throws them under the bus like the others (i.e. two Muslim asked not to sit in front of Camera at an Obama speech)

L) Changes Presidential Seal in lewd act of disrespect, pulls the Seal later because of the negative response it got, even by his own impressionable supporters.


source
 

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[edit on 1-7-2008 by GAOTU789]




posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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here's a shocker


......there is no reference material for whence your information came.

Care to post that, and it could be a matter of interpretation?



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 11:06 PM
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If "Flip Flopping" is telling lies, here is some proof...



My favorite part is the "Campaign Rhetoric" Part...

More? Sure...

OOPPPS BIG LIES HERE


And just for fun, more lies...



And why not more...



And just for fun...



There are TONS more...

Now quite possibly we can find as many for McCain, but to insinuate that Obama does not "flip Flop" is ridiculous to the extreme and quite easily proven that he does...

Flip Flop..... Lie...... Yeahhhhhh

Semper



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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Didnt he flip flop on the FISA bill as well.
blog.washingtonpost.com...

change is what you'll have left after Obama raises taxes.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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Originally posted by josephine
change is what you'll have left after Obama raises taxes.

Oh, I get it! That's what he means by "change!"

Synergy!



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 07:54 AM
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i never said he didnt flip flop

but JetXnet has a tendency to just post something and leave zero source information, move on, rake in the ATS points, and be happy with it.

Regardless of the poster, yes, you could find flipflopping from both candidates, i've pointed this out in numerous other threads.

But i've also pointed out that you have to decide which flipologist you have to agree with.

Do you side with the guy who voted against MLK day, then, after the heat got onto him, he flipped? (McCain) Source - under civil rights.

Or do you side with the candidate who allegedy flipped on NAFTA. A few comments about your first video.

1.) A senior campaign spokesperson. I've recently started talking about the issues of internal/external struggles when running for candidacy. Your idiot campaign staff can ruin you faster than your opponent. Just because this guy 'may' have said it, doesnt make it part of Obama's campaign.
Does it make it true for McCain that a terrorist attack would benefit him greatly? Because his 'senior spokesperson' said it would....

2.)That 'private' phone conversation, that 'allegedly' exists holds just as much water as someone saying bush is responsible for Katrina. We know bush obviously didnt cause the hurricane, so it doesnt hold water, but was he responsible for the outcome? That's up for debate. If i posted on here, semper, that i called you on the phone and you told me you liked were a McCain campaign lackey and you get paid 2000 dollars a month to post as much garbage against obama as you could, does it make it true? (i know its not true, im just using it as an example)



Your second video

Yep - he's an idiot on this one. He did say one thing the first time, something the second time, and something else the third time. He flip-flop-flipped. However; its the mans religion, its the mans church. Tell me what significance his condemnation bares on his candidacy? If we're going to make this election about Religion and skin color - then sure, lets use Obama's church against him. Just like the media used Romney's beliefs against him. Pretty petty, just my opinion.


Your third video i can't argue with.

Your fourth video


Oh COME ON Semper, you've posted better stuff than this. This video has 0.001% truth, and the rest lies.

The truthful part is that Obama did vote against capping credit card interest rates. If he had voted to get the bill passed, and the bill had passed, it would have put a new cap on the credit card interest rates that would be forced into lock mode. Meaning it can't be changed again for a long time. Obama, and many others, thought that the new 'cap' % was STILL too high. So to vote for a bill that you don't agree with -- IE:

The credit card companies say "hey !!! we're lowering interest rate caps, cmon now" by lowering it to 30%. Big deal, 30% is STILL way too high.


Obama did vote against--and Clinton voted for--an amendment that would have placed a 30% cap on the interest rate that could be charged on any extension of credit. The amendment failed by a vote of 74 to 24 in 2005. When the amendment came up for a vote, Obama was standing next to Sen. Paul Sarbanes, D-MD, the senior Democrat on the banking committee and the leader of those opposing the landmark bill, which would make it harder for Americans to get rid of debt.

As for whether the 30% cap was too high, that's certainly a matter of opinion. Sen. Mark Dayton of Minnesota, sponsor of the amendment, said on the Senate floor that such a cap "is still consumer abuse" but is much better than rates of more than 300%, which he said were being charged by some loan operations in the country

Source

So we can dispell the notion that its obama' fault. Clearly to vote YES would screw americans worse by forcing this bill to stay in play for a long long time. You can work for a new bill that lowers it much lower than 30%

But if we're going to put blame on credit card industry problems, lets talk about how the current administration signed a bill On bankruptcy
I urge you, especially if you have show time, to keep an eye out for a documentary called Maxed Out: Hard Times overview available here
where it talks about big banking interests supporting the Bush administration - writing this bill - pushing for its passing - and getting bush to sign for it. For-ev-er screwing americans who need a second chance.



and, by far, my favorite: the last video.

I live in Illinois. I've followed Obama as a senator. Allow me to tell you that Barack Obama has done more for my state than my govenor could ever dream of, on any issue, on any topic.
Barack Obama did issue a task force. When the bill came to the govenors desk for Illinois state-wide health care, guess what happened?

The only way Blagojevich would allow to pay for such bill was through a RIDICULOUS bill called Gross Receipt sales tax which NOBODY supported. So if you cant get all parties on board to pay for what makes a crap state (illinois SUCKS) a little bit better, then you work with what you're given. Misleading statements like what this last video shows, only make obama look better to those who know what really happened.

Next point: at 2:33 in the video

It is speculated that Obama got this deal for future favors. That seems to be a recurring theme these days from anti-obama people. ALLEGEDLY. Nothing proven - just more conjectures. No different than slurring the man for his religion or skin color, IMO. But, ill give it a little slack, and move onto my next point:

Typical white person - hey - if the shoe fits, wear it. To be noble and say when you see a 'gangsta' walking down the street at night, you dont cross the road to avoid them. If you don't - then you are not a 'typical white person'
I am a white person - and i see this VERY thing from white people all the time. Its not that their racist - he never called 'white people' racist.

DAMN im outa characters, next post.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 07:56 AM
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Yeah. Most of these are a matter of interpretation (opinion) and negative spin. I could spend the time to bust these wide open as I (and others) have several rumors, but if people choose to believe these things, it's because they WANT to believe them and it just shows they either haven't done their homework (and are going to depend on jetxnet - a known Obama hater - to form their opinions) OR they simply don't like Obama and are trying to come up with acceptable (politically correct) reasons to explain their hatred and fear and convince other people not to like him, too.

Which is fine. If people want to believe what's posted here without looking it up for themselves, that's certainly their choice. Ignorance. Deny it.


Busted Anti-Obama Rumors (incomplete list):
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

People - Do your own research. Educate yourselves. And post sources.
Otherwise, it's just an opinion piece.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 07:57 AM
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Obama said


The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person who, uh, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know there's a reaction that's been been bred into our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it..." - Senator Barack Obama


how is that calling white people racist?

you have to look at it like this:

A black guy walking down the street with his pants around his knee's, had turned sideways - etc (stereotype)
the 'typical white person' see's this guy, and feels uncomfortable. Decides to cross the street instead of walking by this guy.

In the black guys eyes, he see's a pathetic white person crossing the street, rather than just walking by him, even though the black person is a "regular person" in a speech given by the 'typical white person'

Obama says we have to break through these boundaries. Walk by the black man like you would a white man. Its the TRUTH for MOST white people, regardless if they like it or not.

Also - that video doesnt point out, once, a single issue, that obama talked about with black people. He talked about white people's troubles too...but to point that out woudl really go against the "flow" of the video...


The last video you posted was almost entirely opinion. Sure - they threw a few fancy quotes, one fact or two, to make it look credible, but the rest is all speculation (as the video even points out its self) and spin.


Im not defending obama's "flip flops" because he has done them, like all politicians. But i will defend against the smear and mud. Because its just as easy to do to McCain...but also just as pointless.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 09:12 AM
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Such a huge majority of these anti-Obama rumors have been so solidly debunked (thanks in great part to the consistently excellent research by The Obamanator) that these claims have risen (or descended) to the status of needing extraordinary evidence to back them up or they are to be dismissed out of hand.

They have gotten to about the same level as if someone were to make a claim that GW Bush is a Goa'uld, and offer an obviously photoshopped picture of Bush with glowing eyes as 'evidence' or better yet, 'proof!'.

That is an extraordinary claim, and requires extraordinary evidence, and a touched photograph is not such evidence.

Nor is the 'evidence' so far presented in these anti-Obama rants such evidence.

Has Obama been 100% consistent? Of course not. Has McCain? Of course not.

As BH says above: do your research, people.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 09:53 AM
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For a great take on Mr. Barry O's flip-flopping, specifically as it applies to his flip-flopping on public-financing of his campaign, check out the latest episode of the Common Sense podcast.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


No,

I will not base my vote, my support or my campaigning on flip flopping.

Rather on the fact that Obama is the single most Liberal/Socialist candidate I have seen in my lifetime.

I think that he is a danger to this country simply and succinctly based on his voting record, his stated stance and his silence on many issues.

I have been politically active for many years now, in local, state and even national elections. I have not seen anything like the elections this year and I have never seen a candidate I have been more afraid of.

I was at one time enamored by Obama. His ability to speak to the public and what I thought was a fresh face with fresh ideas, almost captured me. Luckily, I really do check voting records and research the candidate. I could care less about the BS that is ALWAYS hyped about every candidate. I look at the person. I am not swayed by any single web site with an agenda.

2 years ago I told everyone to be careful what they wished for, they just might get it. Well they did. They got a Democrat controlled House and Senate, a sinking economy, rising unemployment rate and stupid high gas prices... Of course all the libs explain this away, but the one thing they can't hide from is the facts... 2 years ago... to now....

So, again, I caution you to be careful what you wish for, again, you just might get it.

I'm changing all my investments into gold in the hopes that if Obama is elected, he wont ruin that. The stock market will be "kaput", the economy will tank and I fear I will find myself once again struggling to make it.

Oh well.. It's been a good ride and I have been very comfortable for 8 years, I can't complain...

Semper



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:43 AM
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As BH says above: do your research, people.


Open-minded skeptic, I think you need to stop drinking the Kool-aid. You're so open-minded that you are obviously gulliable. So much factual material has been displayed here on ATS about Obama's blatent character short-cummings and across the Internet as a whole. Why do you think he has a 'rapid response team' to squlech this true but hindering information tainting his glass image?

I've never seen it so much where you can literally spell out the facts from A to Z about an Obama con-job and his supporters will still deny it. A state of denial for sure. How do they defend Obama? Often by insulting the person who brought to light these facts about Obama. Anyone who disses Obama, threatens his supporters Utopic vision and for this it strikes a nerve.

Obama supporters rarely present any factual information at all. It always end up in attacking the poster or going onto Bush about this, that and the other.

Obama makes your job tougher in supporting him as he has already done some very stupid things. From faking his online CoB to backing out of a signed pledge with regard to public funding to changing the Nation's Presidential Seal in an arrogant, disrespectful yet idiotic way, you still defend and support this man. He insults your intelligence.

Start asking yourself these questions when these events like the aforementioned transpire:

"Would Obama lie to me?"

"Would Obama throw me under the bus to save his own image, like he did his Pastor, Tony Rezko and his other longtime friends"?

"Is Obama disrespectful to the United States?"

"Is Obama childish and arrogant, especially when he senses he is losing or not getting his way?"

"Would Obama piss in the wind and tell me it was raining?"

"Can Obama *really* identify with me or just pretend to? Afterall, he grew up in a rich White banking family in Hawaii?"

"Would Obama ever tell me something that I thought was true and then just turn around and go back on his word. Would Obama be a hipocrite?"

I think you should have answered "Yes" to many of these questions. If not, then you are truely brainwashed and have a weak mind.





[edit on 26-6-2008 by jetxnet]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:48 AM
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Oh my god! A politician flip flopping! We must stop everything and come together as a nation to rid this issue!

Mccain is so easy to toss in the blender, thats why no one is trying to rid him. I cant believe ATS has so many posts about Obama... They are either red neck republicans or people that need attention.

(And if you do that silly quote thing in the box I will not respond) Thats so annoying skimming through text.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 02:59 AM
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Read the original post, these aren't just your run-of-the-mill political flip-flops. These are very arrogant, yet idiotic and disrespectful to the American people and he isn't even in office yet! The audicity of Obama and his supporters still are in denial.

John Kerry didn't even screw up this bad to this point, not even close.

Higher taxes - yeah!

Third-rate Healthcare - yeah!

Major reduction of the US military and defense - yeah!

Solving Global Poverty by giving your money to militias in poor countries like Burma where the people will never see it - yeah!

Negotiating with Terrorists and giving them Constitutional rights - yeah!

Reducing our Nuclear stockpile while other countries continuing arming - yeah!

Change - Hope - Bread lines and Martial Law - yeah!!

[edit on 26-6-2008 by jetxnet]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 03:25 AM
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Interesting post.

Have you seen this post by DimensionalDetective?

Theres some major league flippity flopping for you. People died and are dying still over that one...

So if the Obama stuff is such an issue, I assume you guys are hollering from the roof tops for Bush to be impeached for lying?

Food for thought.

And yeah yeah yeah, I know....Obama's not Bush, but he's not McCain either is he?

McCains flourishing flip flop list

McCains Farm Flip

and in the interests of balance

Obama and McCain - flip flop flip flop....

from which I got this sign of the times type gem....



A former prisoner of war, who suffered torture in Vietnam, McCain has called for the US detention center in Guantanamo Bay to be closed and for torture to be banned. Last week, he criticized the US Supreme Court for "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country" after the court ruled that detainees should be allowed to challenge their detentions in US courts.


Its a flippty floppity world......



[edit on 26/0608/08 by neformore]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 03:35 AM
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Those links don't even show any real flip-flopping, not like Obama's recent outbursts.

Iraq had WMD - they were moved out well ahead of time before the US got there. Saddam knew we were coming, had up to a year to get rid of the WMDs. Saddam got help from Russia and China in doing so.

It's called an Exit Strategy. Every WMD program has one, especially the Russian one for which Saddam's WMDs were based.

Bottom line, no canidate for the US has disrespected the American people so directly right in front of their eyes.

Obama's flip-flops aren't just flip-flops, they're so bad, technically criminal! It's illiegal to alter the Presidental Seal in the manner he did and to fake a CoB while running for POTUS.

All this and hasn't even got to the general election yet!

It will be interesting to see how else he can disrespect America and still have his Sheeple supporting him.



[edit on 26-6-2008 by jetxnet]



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by jetxnet
Open-minded skeptic, I think you need to stop drinking the Kool-aid. You're so open-minded that you are obviously gulliable.


Ah, and you base this assessment on the long and detailed conversations you and I have had?



So much factual material has been displayed here on ATS about Obama's blatent character short-cummings and across the Internet as a whole. Why do you think he has a 'rapid response team' to squlech this true but hindering information tainting his glass image?


The facts that I have seen do not support this conclusion. Obama is a politician, and as such is not to be trusted completely, nor do I. I have seen a ton of innuendo and shrill hysteria regarding Obama, but when the facts are investigated, they most often do not support the claims.



I've never seen it so much where you can literally spell out the facts from A to Z about an Obama con-job and his supporters will still deny it. A state of denial for sure. How do they defend Obama? Often by insulting the person who brought to light these facts about Obama. Anyone who disses Obama, threatens his supporters Utopic vision and for this it strikes a nerve.


The problem is, the 'facts' so often spelled out turn out to be easily and soundly proven incorrect. In the debunking of these issues here on ATS, the posts to which I pay attention do not attack any anti-Obama poster, they simply lay out the real facts and the whole story, with resources.



Obama supporters rarely present any factual information at all. It always end up in attacking the poster or going onto Bush about this, that and the other.


Have you seen any of the excellent work done by Benevolent Heretic? Or do you choose to ignore it?



...to backing out of a signed pledge with regard to public funding to changing the Nation's Presidential Seal in an arrogant, disrespectful yet idiotic way, you still defend and support this man. He insults your intelligence.


Sigh. The facts of the situation do not support these conclusions. Again, see BH's work on the subject of any 'agreement' regarding public financing and the Seal. And I can take care of my own intelligence, thank you...




"Would Obama lie to me?"

He is a politician. Of course he would lie to me if he thought it in his best interest.



"Would Obama throw me under the bus to save his own image, like he did his Pastor, Tony Rezko and his other longtime friends"?

See above.



"Is Obama disrespectful to the United States?"

I have not seen one single instance of this, so my answer to this one is, based on experience, No.



"Is Obama childish and arrogant, especially when he senses he is losing or not getting his way?"

Huh? Again, I have not seen one single instance of this. So, based on experience, No.



"Would Obama piss in the wind and tell me it was raining?"

I doubt it.



"Can Obama *really* identify with me or just pretend to? Afterall, he grew up in a rich White banking family in Hawaii?"

I believe he can, to a certain extent. NOBODY, not even my DW, can identify with me completely, nor can any individual completely identify with another. Anyone who claims they can is BSing.



"Would Obama ever tell me something that I thought was true and then just turn around and go back on his word. Would Obama be a hipocrite?"

Maybe. I have seen no evidence of this so far.



I think you should have answered "Yes" to many of these questions. If not, then you are truely brainwashed and have a weak mind.


A few points, here:
- You know essentially nothing about my mind.
- I do not think Obama is any sort of Messianic figure, nor do I expect him to be perfect, nor do I agree with him on everything.

Here's the deal. The state of politics in the US at this stage of history is such that someone who is really clean will never rise to a national level. The entire system is too corrupt to allow that.

So for this cycle, the choice is pretty basic. "Do I (or you) like the way the country is and has been going?" If Yes, vote for McCain. If no, vote for Obama. I really support Ron Paul, but he has dropped out. And I don't agree with him completely, either.

A McCain presidency means nothing significant will change. The US will continue to bankrupt itself by, among other things, starting more wars of aggression.

An Obama presidency means something might change. No guarantees, for sure. And it might change for the worse, although I doubt it. Also no guarantees, there.

But I for one do not like the current direction of my country. I am embarrassed anytime I see the miserable excuse we have had for 'leadership' these last years, and I am not proud of how my country is behaving. So I figure I do not want more of the same. So I'll take Obama, and the changes that will, or at least might, come with that choice.

Oh, and before you get all hysterical and start screeching about how much I must hate America because I'm not proud of how the country is behaving right now... remember that you know nothing about me.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 08:13 AM
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Originally posted by jetxnet
Iraq had WMD - they were moved out well ahead of time before the US got there. Saddam knew we were coming, had up to a year to get rid of the WMDs. Saddam got help from Russia and China in doing so.


Well apart from the fact that theres no substantiated evidence to prove that, apart from rumours and hearsay (but you like dealing in that!)



It's called an Exit Strategy. Every WMD program has one, especially the Russian one for which Saddam's WMDs were based.


Nope its called "oh christ, theres nothing there, lets make something up"



Obama's flip-flops aren't just flip-flops, they're so bad, technically criminal! It's illiegal to alter the Presidental Seal in the manner he did and to fake a CoB while running for POTUS.


You talked about the presedential seal on another thread and it was pointed out to you that every presidential candidate has done this - even McCain. Maybe you ought to quote the exact legislation that you refer to?

As for the Birth Certificate, the jury is still out on that one, and its entirely speculativ anyway, but you insist on pushing it.

Heres something though, Panama has not - ever - been US territory. Even a "military protectorate" is NOT US territory - unless you want to argue with me that all those people born in the US controlled sections of Berlin after WW2 are also US citizens, or that the people born in Iraq, following the toppling of Saddam Hussein and the installation of the military administration handing power over to the new Iraqi government, are also US Citizens. Theres a thought for you to ponder if you want to argue it - you're giving citizenship to Iraqi muslims, all of whom are eligible to become POTUS.

As such I expect you'll be starting a thread on McCain's lies soon?



It will be interesting to see how else he can disrespect America and still have his Sheeple supporting him.


I would suggest that the only people disrespecting the US, and dragging its name through the mud right now, are the ones who are consistently and repeatedly trying to lower the level of what could arguably be described as the election of the most influential leader in the world into a schoolyard jeering debate, predominently based on ignorance.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 09:24 AM
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Obama Free Trade Flip Flops

Flipp'n and a flopp'n. Just like every politician.

No change. No hope. No unity.

As was said earlier ... deny ignorance.



posted on Jun, 26 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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Weeee, the flip-flop campaign worked for the last dem so why not recycle?!
Oh man, being a succesfull politician is all about flipping the flop and spinning the story. It would be funny if.... Wait, no it's just funny.





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