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Rapture is a conspiracy.

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posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by sarcastic
Like they want to bring on world war 3 so jebus will come beam them up? Come on!! That's looney.


Who are you talking about? If you think that Christians want to bring on WWIII, you're mistaken at best or mentally unbalanced at worst. Are you talking about Jews? Jews don't believe in Jesus as the Christ. The only fanatical theists I can place as wanting to bring on WWIII are the Muslims, and they only regard Jesus as a prophet, not their savior.

So, frankly, you're talking out your ass.




posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by sarcastic
The only fanatical theists I can place as wanting to bring on WWIII are the Muslims, and they only regard Jesus as a prophet, not their savior.

So, frankly, you're talking out your ass.


uhm, our dear president bush claims christianity, and he sure doesn't seem to be opposed to ww3 let alone war period. lumping muslims into one catagory and blaming them seems to be as normal for christians as it is for muslims to lump and blame the christians. kind of ironic how religion, which is supposedly sought after for peace helps fuel the flames of war.


*lucky for some of the christians they get to escape the mess they helped to create and fuel.


[edit on 30-6-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 07:01 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
uhm, our dear president bush claims christianity, and he sure doesn't seem to be opposed to ww3 let alone war period.


Let's see, and our dear flower child President Clinton claims to be a Christian, also, yet the Clinton Administration waged more war and deployed more American troops than any president in history, including GW Bush. And his dear wife Hillary, also a professed Christian, not only voted in favor of invading Iraq but argued in favor of it before the Senate.

Hillary Clinton's Iraq Lies

So let's not lump all the hatred on one administration. Besides, that's completely off-topic, and I'm not going to take the bait.

The topic of this thread is Rapture is a conspiracy, and I was speaking to that topic until certain posters attempted to derail it into Christian-bashing and now Bush-blaming.

Try to keep your seething hatreds in check and stay focused, people.




[edit on 6/30/2008 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Let's play devil's advocate for a moment...what if this teaching is a lie?

Who benefits from it? Who manipulates others with it? What could be the possible results?

Let's say for sake of reasoning that it really is; a manipulative teaching. Can it not be used to not only; control one individual to large groups of people, but can't it also be used as a shaming tool? A threatening tool? Does God really want individuals to worship him that need this inhibitor?

So it then takes us to; who benefits from it? Who also understands mankind? Is it not possible to blind mankind with a romantic teaching that can actually keep man in the dark because they are waiting for something that never happens? So then, one misses actual signs because these signs don't fit their logic, order, or sequence of events?

Who else has the ability to construct thoughts and teachings along with misconstruing the scriptures? If this theory is a lie, where does that leave us?

Are some of us being duped?



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Originally posted by justamomma

Try to keep your seething hatreds in check and stay focused, people.




[edit on 6/30/2008 by Doc Velocity]


yes, i agree. which is exactly why i posted as i did in response to your statement :


"The only fanatical theists I can place as wanting to bring on WWIII are the Muslims, and they only regard Jesus as a prophet, not their savior.

So, frankly, you're talking out your ass."

i am not a fan of any of the presidents that have been in office since my birth, so using clinton does nothing to affect me, which was your intent.

the rapture: ahhh yes, the topic of discussion here. still thinks its a fairytale for those who wish to escape the responsibility of what we, as humans, have created on this earth.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 


Oh yes. Do not challenge me on my New Testament knowledge. It may say that, but does it say how? If not, it can be open to interpretation, therefore applied to this argument, could it not?



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
So, frankly, you're talking out your ass.


so too are you. You say the jews don't believe in jesus christ, but you believe the lie that christians do.

Christians don't believe in "Jesus Christ" they believe in the golden idol of "jesus christ" that their churches have built.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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I've said in the past and still think that religion is the oldest and ultimate form of government. The reason for religion is crowd control and, as such, it demands that we answer to an authority higher than the authority of Man.

If we accept any single lesson in the history of human civilization, it should be that Man does not respect the rule of Man. Homo Sapiens is a very territorial animal that, quite naturally, seeks freedom and will fight to the death when threatened with captivity or oppression. As human beings, we also know all about human greed and the lust for power, and we know that any human authority is flawed and fallible and corrupt from the onset.

So, we'll never have a civilization that answers only to human authority. We simply don't respect humanity enough.

Hence the need for an ultimate authority, against which we are powerless to revolt, and which holds not only the scales of life and death for all humanity, but also the scales of salvation and damnation for all eternity. Whoever concocted the first god and the first notion of salvation was a friggin' genius of social engineering. More than merely holding the human population in check from cannibalizing each other, religion served to motivate and polarize great masses of humanity toward some of the most amazing accomplishments in our history.

And, yes, that includes war and conquest, because sometimes you just have to let the dogs out to tear each other's asses up and get it out of their system. In some of the oldest scriptures, God himself decided when wars began and ended. Which was fortunate, because humans love war so much, and we really don't know when or how to stop it once we get going.

Now, that's an effective form of government — a god that holds your life and salvation in its hand, yet still allows you to go out occasionally and answer Nature's call to slaughter one another. And bless you for it! That god is an awesome god.

To maintain a rich stable of believers, religion does require the infrequent miracle — something so outlandish and inexplicable that humanity is left reeling from the incomprehensibility of it all. In the wake of any given miracle, great masses of frantic people seek answers that only an ultimate authority can provide. I mean, if it's beyond human comprehension, no mere human authority will ever sate your curiosity.

And I'm not talking about something as mundane as splitting an ocean in-two. Science has come back and tried their damnedest to "explain" the miraculous Plagues of Egypt, for instance, in purely geological terms. Oh, it was a volcano in the Aegean Sea — see? Too mundane, too easy to explain away.

But the real miracles are, again, incomprehensible, and those are the events that make or break a religion. For Christians, Christ's superhuman deeds (healing the sick, raising the dead) were cool tricks, but it was the last BIG miracle that rocked the house. It was Jesus Christ's return to life after being betrayed and brutally murdered — let's call it what it is, that's a show stopper. It's the Resurrection that is the focal point of Christianity.

That was enough to keep the converts coming for over 2000 years, and enabled The Church to become the bloated monstrosity that it is today. But, regardless of what you think of The Church, you have to admit that it's one of the oldest forms of government that is yet in existence.

Of course, no religion is going to make and keep vigilant believers without the promise of a Return. As a miracle, the promised Return of Christ will have to top the Resurrection for shock & awe, so it has to be one hell of a show — the most fearsome miracle imaginable, in fact. And that nails down the other end of Christianity as a form of government — keep the masses living in fear of The End Days for as long as possible.

But that's what the so-called Rapture is all about. It's about rewards and penalties and vindication, with the ultimate special effects. The "true believers" culled from the loathsome herd, as it were, and the remainder driven to slaughter. You can't explain that one with volcanic eruptions.

So... Is the Rapture a conspiracy? No more a conspiracy than any other governmental measure to keep the believers walking the straight and narrow and paying their taxes into the indefinite future. And, by God, this form of government works, as evidenced by its longevity, and as opposed to all other forms of Man-Made government that rise and fall within a few centuries, at most.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 08:54 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity

But that's what the so-called Rapture is all about. It's about rewards and penalties and vindication, with the ultimate special effects. The "true believers" culled from the loathsome herd, as it were, and the remainder driven to slaughter.


so, what exactly constitutes a true believer, if i may ask? doesn't the bible say that even the devils believe and tremble? that would make them true believers, would it not? are they to be raptured as well from this mess?

you may love war and power. all i want is my right to pursue what makes me happy w/out comprimising others' pursuits or having others' pursuits imposing on that right. i don't want to be "known" or rich... i just want to be free in my pursuits and have the assurance that my children will have that as well. i guess i am one of the genetic mutations that doesn't feel the need to impose their beliefs and way of life onto others...... but i don't believe in the gods of modern christianity. i believe in a creator, but everywhere i look and everywhere i listen, i hear his "voice" saying man must take responsibility.... nothing about being rescued.

am i merely to be left out of this fantastic evacuation due to the fact that i don't believe in the imposing God depicted by modern christianity but rather in a creator who lovingly placed free will in us all so that we had the right to pursue what is good and what is right w/out the fear of restraint?



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 09:30 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
am i merely to be left out of this fantastic evacuation due to the fact that i don't believe in the imposing God depicted by modern christianity but rather in a creator who lovingly placed free will in us all so that we had the right to pursue what is good and what is right w/out the fear of restraint?


Well, thanks to Christ, you get a second chance after the first evacuation. That's when many unbelievers will crap in their pants and find religion real quick during the Tribulation. They, too, will go to Heaven, theoretically. It's the hardcore unbelievers, the ones who prefer living in Hell, who will be left behind.

I mean, if it was up to God the Father, He'd probably just roast the whole planet and be done with it. It's the fact that Christ is handling the job that gives Christians assurance of, you know, forgiveness and second chances.

God might be love, but it's also hate. God is both freedom and oppression. God is illogic. God is insanity. God is war and peace and life and death and everything else you can name. God was fearsome and frightening and unpredictable all throughout the Old Testament — like a madman running around upstairs.

It was the coming of Christ that finally offered some kind of stability to the Man/God relationship. Jesus was God on Earth, walking in Man's shoes, trying to explain the whole Man/God relationship in the simplest terms: Look, I've told you a hundred times, nobody comes to the Father except by me. Are you listening? Look at me when I'm talking to you! And He knowingly walked into his own crucifixion and forgave his murderers — and, more than that, He assumed the entire burden of the sins of Mankind, forever.

Which is something The Church plays down while many Protestants play it up. The Holy Roman Catholic Church does not want you thinking that your sins are automatically forgiven forever. They want you coming to confessional and attending mass and feeling guilty as hell for your sins — and, of course, making your "offerings" to The Church.

This whole "Forgiven Forever" thing is counterproductive to The Church's governmental agenda. But it's also the soda pop factor for me, lends some credibility — I mean, how did that make it into the Bible?




[edit on 6/30/2008 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 



And I'm not talking about something as mundane as splitting an ocean in-two.


I imagine a man "splitting an ocean in-two" would be someone who would not only be front page news on every newspaper, but he would also be the TALK of everyone we know?

"Mundane"?

"Mundane", as in ordinary...typical?

No-one that I know of (even in the Bible) has split an ocean in-two.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 11:24 PM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 



To maintain a rich stable of believers, religion does require the infrequent miracle


This is not true:
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by PreTribGuy
I imagine a man "splitting an ocean in-two" would be someone who would not only be front page news on every newspaper, but he would also be the TALK of everyone we know? "Mundane"? "Mundane", as in ordinary...typical? No-one that I know of (even in the Bible) has split an ocean in-two.

Moses parted the Red Sea. Exodus, remember? I used that as an example of miracles that are regularly explained away by Science. Yes, this cheapens the miracle, reducing it to a comparatively mundane occurrence.



Originally posted by PreTribGuy
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.


For that is the foundation of Faith — a prize seldom attained by Christians or any other theists. But we're talking about how things are, not how they should be.

As I've said elsewhere, I've only known about 5 truly Faithful Christians in my entire life. Chances are, you've never met even one. Most self-professed Christians are not Faithful, and I've met about a million of them.

Tell you what, next time you hear about the face of The Virgin Mary appearing on the side of a bowling alley, I want you to get in your car (if you have one) and drive your ass over there and just look at the crowd of eager hopefuls gathered to see and photograph the "miracle"...

The great majority of those people go to church — Catholic Church, to be precise — and yet here they are, blocking the streets and pointing their fingers and flashing their cameras. Because they still need proof.




[edit on 6/30/2008 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jul, 1 2008 @ 11:52 PM
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at first i thought the rapture wasnt even fathomable,even from a biblical perspective, but one day reading revelation,seeing as how i love prophecy,i just happened to run across why people think there is a rapture.i wasnt taught this. but if you read through the first part of revelation,just past the letters to the seven churches,you might see why. i could point it out,but that wouldnt be any fun now would it,and i am looking forward to the flaming on this one,give me your worst,for those of you who have done "research" lol.......or that think you know god from aesops faery tales. you can argue with the bible,you can struggle to find god,but you cant argue with prophecy that has been foretold and has happened. im not sure i believe in the "rapture" but i do understand where it comes from........maybe its pagan...maybe you the reader is pagan,maybe we should find out the meaning and history of the word pagan before we refer to anything as pagan,or if it makes you happy keep reading your watchtower. peace



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:23 AM
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I have taken the time to go through revelations, and the horsemen and the
seals are the same thing. In different parts of revelations, but the same sequence of events.

I stopped going to church when all the churches preached rapture.
I came to this conclusion not from someone else's idea, but from reading the bible myself and listening to what I read.

"Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. "

That is not talking about being raptured away , but that something shall befall them. This is something that will happen to those NOT with God.

I am not a good debater, but if you believe the rapture, really read the bible with an open mind, not with what you were taught. Take the time and map out revelations. It becomes clear.

We are already in these times. If the rapture was to happen it would have by now. We are already with the third horseman.

The bible says how is you can not discern the times? It says people will say all is how it has always been.

It is not. Look at the boards, look at the news. Its changed.

It is true that few will be saved in the end. To many people have a form of Godliness not but not of God. How many people call themselves Christian,
and only do Gods will when it is convenient. How many of us are slave to the world system, to the point that thats the system is your first priority? How many of you will really leave your home, family , kids and security , when it comes down to it, or take the mark?

How many of us really show we love other people as much as ourselves unless we know them?

Enoch was taken by God without dying. I believe he will be one of the witnesses, and will still dye a physical death then.

Anyone who does not enter at the gate, but finds some other way , the same is a thief and will not see the kingdom of God.

I am not wishing tribulation. I am not a martyr, I am just reading the word the way the spirit interprets it to me.

Then there are those who say they are part of the 144,000. The bible says these are priests who have not been defiled. That is not the general population.

Churches today teach what people want to hear. Christ did not teach what people wanted to hear. He teaches what needs to be heard.

Christ speaks to the churches. He is not happy with any of them.

I do not goto church. The church is in me


Ama



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by amatrine
 


If you don't have to be in the "church" because the church is in you, then you understand the true meaning the rapture.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:40 AM
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and still the reference i know of in revelations i have not seen on this site,its killing me,i want to point it out bu noone seems to know about the reference im talking about........geez



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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start of revelation you read thru the letters to the seven churches,it explains the mystery of the seven stars and seven lampstands, then after the letters, it says come up here and i will show you what must happen after this, then you see the seven spirits of god burning before the throne......could this be the seven churches, could this be somewhat of a hidden meaning......i dont know. this is the main reference used for rapture, i urge you to read it in context, i saw this by chance one day, like i said i dont necassarily buy into the rapture but this is where it comes from.

[edit on 2-7-2008 by pureevil81]



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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All in all though, we weather we believe in a rapture or do not, we should not let differences divide us.

Where it talks about if one believes that eating meat is wrong, do not argue over it, least you cause your brother to sin. For both eat meat , or do not eat meat
for the same purpose. To serve the Lord. I know this was talking about those who followed the law and those who did not, but the same applies in all debate about beliefs.

I think the same thing applies here. I think its still ok for us to show why we believe the way we do to , and let each of us decide for ourselves, as long as it does not become a stumbling block. Not that that is happening here, but have seen it happen in a lot of subjects.



posted on Jul, 2 2008 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by amatrine
 


very well said,i see you have read the bible thoroughly. thanks for your input, i have much respect. take care




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