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Rapture is a conspiracy.

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posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 07:41 PM
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The Rapture was created in the 1800's. Not all Christians believe in the Rapture. There seems to be a lot of misconceptions on ATS and all things Rapture seem to be large area of misinformation. So here is the straight info, excerpted for your reading pleasure. Please, if you believe in this stuff, I am not attacking you, I am just trying to get this info spread. Believe whatever you want.


According to Wikipedia: Rapture:

"The rise in belief in the "Pre-Tribulation" rapture is sometimes attributed to a 15-year old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald (a follower of Edward Irving), who in 1830 had a vision that was later published in 1861."

"The Catholic and Orthodox churches as well as the Reformed denominations have no tradition of such a teaching and reject the doctrine, in part because they cannot find any reference to it among any of the early Church fathers."

"The popularization of the term is associated with teaching of John Nelson Darby, prominent among the Plymouth Brethren, and the rise of premillennialism and dispensationalism in English-speaking churches at the end of the 19th century. In 1908, the doctrine of the rapture was further popularized by an evangelist named William Eugene Blackstone, whose book, Jesus Is Coming, sold more than one million copies. The first known appearance of the theological use of the word "rapture" in print occurs with the Scofield Reference Bible of 1909."

Scofield reference bible was written by this guy:


According to Wikipedia Cyrus Scofield :

"Cyrus Scofield was born in Lenawee County, Michigan, but during the American Civil War he served for a year as a private in the 7th Tennessee Infantry, C.S.A.. By 1866 he was in St. Louis, Missouri working in his brother-in-law's law office. Admitted to the Kansas bar in 1869, he was elected to the Kansas legislature as a Republican in 1871 and 1872 and was appointed U.S. attorney for the district of Kansas. He was forced to resign because of questionable financial transactions and shortly thereafter was jailed on forgery charges.[1]

Perhaps because of alcoholism, he also abandoned his wife and two daughters. Leotine Cerre Scofield divorced him in 1883, and the same year he married Hettie Hall von Wartz, with whom he had a son"

"Scofield's notes on Revelation are a major source for the various timetables, judgments, and plagues elaborated by such popular religious writers as Hal Lindsey; and in part because of the success of the Scofield Reference Bible, twentieth-century American fundamentalists placed greater stress on eschatological speculation."


Sorry for all the quoting, but I believe it was necessary to make my point. If you guys want to debate this stuff, that is fine with me, but you can't dispute the above mentioned facts. Rapture was based on a vision had in 1830 by a 15 year old Scottish-Irish girl and popularized by a Annotated Bible written by an adulterous, alcoholic, former U.S. attorney forced to resign for bribes and forgery.




posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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And the girl who had the vision was the follower of Edward Irving, a Scottish clergyman who was obsessed with prophecy and the end times. This is also according to wikipedia.



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 07:51 PM
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My aunt is all about the rapture. Rapture, rapture, rapture, rapture...I want to puke. She seems to think that acts and adherence to the Bible will get you into heaven, so that is why she judges EVERYONE!



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by CallMeMaury
 


Hey. I disagree and made a thread about the rapture. Part of the OP refutes the incorrect belief that the concept of the rapture began with Darby and McDonald. Like you, I don't really care to debate the rapture either but if you have the time or interest, HERE is the thread that will explain the other side.

Could the rapture be a church conspiracy to keep us all in line in the hope of being included in that glorious moment? Perhaps. But one thing is for sure, the rapture doctrine did not begin with Darby or McDonald.



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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What if "rapture" is another word for "ascention"? I mean, just what if. I'm on the fence about both ideals. I've noticed that various symbologies seem to replicate themselves within different cultures throughout history.

What if?



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by CallMeMaury
 


Hey. I disagree and made a thread about the rapture. Part of the OP refutes the incorrect belief that the concept of the rapture began with Darby and McDonald. Like you, I don't really care to debate the rapture either but if you have the time or interest, HERE is the thread that will explain the other side.

Could the rapture be a church conspiracy to keep us all in line in the hope of being included in that glorious moment? Perhaps. But one thing is for sure, the rapture doctrine did not begin with Darby or McDonald.


Do you think anyone would be looking for rapture inferences in the Bible if not for Darby or McDonald?

Just wondering your opinion.



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by CallMeMaury
 


That is a good question. 'What if' questions are always hard to answer. It is possible. After Ephraim in the 4th or 8th century and his rapture reference, there was also a pastor in the 1700's who taught the rapture. We know the 'books would be opened' in terms of prophecy being understood towards the end times and have definitely seen an explosion in knowledge concerning the meaning of prophecies that confused theologians in the past. So, is it surprising to see the rapture doctrine being popularized now? I don't know.

If a pretribulation rapture truly is the way it is going to turn out, then I would say, yes, we would still be hearing about the rapture because the Holy Spirit would reveal it to us so we would understand and heed the warning. If not, then it is anybody's guess, to be honest.

I lean towards a pretribulation view but fully admit I could be wrong and don't preach it dogmatically.



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Apparently, that one sermon was falsely attributed to Ephraem of Syria and in most places is attributed anonymously to a "Psuedo-Ephraim."

Where you aware of this?



posted on Jun, 24 2008 @ 09:49 PM
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reply to post by CallMeMaury
 


Yes, I mention that on my thread I link you to and that is also why I described it up above in this thread as 4th century or 8th century. If it is the real Ephraim, then it would date to the 4th century and if it was pseudo-Ephraim, then it would date to the 7th/8th century. Either way it would be long before Darby and McDonald. Still, some scholars even dispute the context of Ephraim's sermon whether it is his or not. It's a fascinating debate but I guess I'm pretty burned out on it. In my opinion, we're all a part of the Christian family and when it is time to go, it is time to go.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 01:21 AM
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My bad, I missed that. Your thread you linked to was lengthy. Either way it is a burned out topic. I am just trying to get info into these forums. So many people state things like they are facts. e.g. one of the worst examples of misconceptions in my mind is the whole "We only use 10% of our brains thing." Modern science shows we use pretty much the whole thing, but people go on saying it at least once a thread in the paranormal section. And in religious conspiricies, the gap between fact and conjecture is wide, but people go on posting inaccuracies as though they were common knowledge. It has been nice to see someone actually researches things in depth. I'm not particularly religious, and I don't believe in the rapture. But your info has been really stimulating.

I started this thread because someone in another thread stated, "I'm a Roman Catholic, and as such, I have to believe in Rapture." I was raised Roman Catholic and this BS was the sticking point for me. I hope to post more of these types of threads in the future, and I hope to see you there.



posted on Jun, 28 2008 @ 11:36 PM
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Yes, the Rapture is a complete hoax. There will not be a massive "disappearing" of peoples when the end has come.

Now, what you must realize in order to understand that this is a hoax, and not in any way true, because God would must have made everybody incredibly stupid if he didn't.

Now, after some...1 Billion people dissappear from the world, people would have then heeded God's warning and then stopped not believing. But, in the Bible, it says that there were still unbelievers, people who were still taking the mark and all that. If they were still taking the mark when 1 Billion people disappeared from the world, then God must have made us idiots.

But I know for a fact the Human race is smarter than that, and that's why the Rapture is a Hoax. What is really going to happen is that whole concentration camped thing, where they have red, blue, and yellow flagged people.

The reds will die, the blues will be picked randomly out of groups to die, and the survivors will be forced to take the mark, and yellow flagged people will be forced to take the mark, thus becoming a "Rapture" where every believing man or woman is sent to Heaven.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by TechnoFan21]



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by TechnoFan21
 



1 Billion people disappeared from the world


There is nothing in the Bible that indicates that 1 billion people will be taken in the Rapture.

I think the number taken will be so few...the world will hardly notice.

Scripture supports this view because of the VERY small number of people saved out of Sodom and only Noah's family was saved out of the flood.

Jesus gave a warning:
Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Those who say, "No Rapture" are not heeding the words of Jesus and God will grant them their desire...to go through the Tribulation.



posted on Jun, 29 2008 @ 06:46 PM
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ANYTHING that takes the "power" out of your own hands and places it into another's (whether the "another" is a person or concept, etc) is an illusion. mark that down, take notes, and listen up.

we have been given everything we need by our creator in order to exert control over our own lives. don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

the rapture, in my humble opinion, is merely something that ppl WANT to believe bc it is easier than being responsible for the condition we find ourselves in. who wants to go through hard times? ya think the ppl that have been tortured and/or died for their beliefs or for their countries or anything else that gave purpose to their life wanted to go through that? no, but they did.

i wanna know why this "special" group thinks they are any more important than the rest of those who have died for those same basic beliefs feel they are worthy to escape what many others have had to go through.

really, i am curious and am not mocking (bitter perhaps, seeing that it is essential to all of the rest of us that those who hold to this idea of a fairy tale rescue not deny their personal responsibility and what have been given inside; and the concept of rapture allows for just that... a denial of the very thing that was lovingly placed w/in us)

[edit on 29-6-2008 by justamomma]



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 04:15 PM
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reply to post by PreTribGuy
 


I got my 1 Billion number by the number of people in the world who are Christian. That number is 1 Billion. All of those people should be saved. But, anyway, the Rapture is not going to happen by disappearing. Please, please do not bring books like those top-sellling Revelation FICTION books that the Christian mass media loves to market. Those books are made by authors with an imagination. The Rapture will happen by lots of deaths.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by justamomma
ANYTHING that takes the "power" out of your own hands and places it into another's (whether the "another" is a person or concept, etc) is an illusion. mark that down, take notes, and listen up.

we have been given everything we need by our creator in order to exert control over our own lives. don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

the rapture, in my humble opinion, is merely something that ppl WANT to believe bc it is easier than being responsible for the condition we find ourselves in. who wants to go through hard times? ya think the ppl that have been tortured and/or died for their beliefs or for their countries or anything else that gave purpose to their life wanted to go through that? no, but they did.

i wanna know why this "special" group thinks they are any more important than the rest of those who have died for those same basic beliefs feel they are worthy to escape what many others have had to go through.

really, i am curious and am not mocking (bitter perhaps, seeing that it is essential to all of the rest of us that those who hold to this idea of a fairy tale rescue not deny their personal responsibility and what have been given inside; and the concept of rapture allows for just that... a denial of the very thing that was lovingly placed w/in us)

[edit on 29-6-2008 by justamomma]


That was really good. Thank you for sharing that with us. I do agree with the whole Fairy Tale thing, as I was trying to say before. I know God, and God does not like to work that way. He likes to work in ways where you can't tell that he is doing anything.

Yes, your power being put into some one else's hands is wrong. Even God's. He does not want to control, he wants you to control yourself. He is not going to just go out and get every lazy Christian waiting for trumpets, waiting to disappear.

I also think that God would want it to be a little more of a challenge to get to Heaven also.



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 04:49 PM
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jesus is coming to rule on earth, why would you be raptured just to come back here?


jesus does not return until the final trump is blown, so where these people got the idea that they are gonna miss out on the tribulation are wrong

you will all DIE for your faith in christ which will be your salvation

do not fear death if you have eternal life(faith) in your heart

noone is worthy to just vanish and not go through anything, we all fall short of that, it is only faith in jesus that we are saved, not raptured



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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I don't think of the "Rapture" as a conspiracy. I like to think of it as a joke played on christians by God. Just you wait until the snit hits the fans and all the christStains lift their heads and say things like "I can feel the rapture" only to open their eyes five minutes later surounded by us all pointing at them calling them jackasses...



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by Incarnated
 


itll actually be a sad day and i think will play the part of the falling away mentioned in revelations

but who knows

i remember growing up and hearing nothing but the rapture and its coming soon be ready

i just laughed



posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by TechnoFan21
Yes, the Rapture is a complete hoax. There will not be a massive "disappearing" of peoples when the end has come.


Well, only if specific scriptures are "complete hoaxes," also. While the Bible never uses the popular term Rapture in reference to the return of Christ, there is quite a bit of scripture at the foundation of the Rapture "hoax"... If you'll indulge me for a moment:

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17


Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52


Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Matthew 24:40-41


Our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
Philippians 3:20-21


And there are other Biblical allusions to what can only be described as a miraculous occurrence at the time of the Tribulation, the ascension of the living and the dead alike to join Christ returned, which is really going to piss off those who are left behind. There are different interpretations of when any of this will happen — whether it's Pre-Tribulation, or Post-Tribulation, or Mid-Tribulation — but there's no denying that it's right there in the Bible.

So, you can't really debunk the Rapture as a "complete hoax" without similarly debunking the New Testament, which is much more complex and much more concise than the folklore of the Old Testament.





posted on Jun, 30 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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No it is not a conspiracy it's a hoax.

Like they want to bring on world war 3 so jebus will come beam them up?

Come on!!

That's looney.







 
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