The only hope for this country is democratic socialism & equal redistribution of wealth

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posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by counterterrorist
 


Unconstitutional. You fail. Only losers support ridiculous ideas like wealth redistribution. They do so out of envy and anger at those who have actually made something of themselves.


I have no idea what you're talking about. Besides, you're not a capitalist, are you?

Do you have a trust fund?

Are you a venture capitalist?

Are you an international banker?

The only thing unconstitutional around here is your diet.
The history of the U.S. showcases Thomas Jefferson wanting a publicly owned central bank, & Alexander Hamilton wanting a privately owned central bank. It’s history, lost history.

“Bankers are a den of vipers. I intend to rout you out & by the Eternal God I will rout you out. If the people only understood the rank injustice of our central bank system, there would be a revolution before morning. If the central bank continues to control our currency, receiving our public monies, & holding thousands of our citizens in dependence, it would be more formidable & dangerous than the naval & military power of the enemy. It is not our own citizens only who are to receive the bounty of our government … More than 8 million dollars of the stock of this bank are held by foreigners … Is there no danger to our liberty & independence in a bank that in its nature has so little to bind it to our country? If government would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favor alike on the high & the low, the rich & the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing.”
~ President Andrew Jackson, 1829-1837

“Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks & corporations that will grow up around will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks & restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
~ President Thomas Jefferson, 1801-1809

“Whoever controls the money of a nation, controls that nation & is absolute master of all industry & commerce. When you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation & depression originate.”
~ President James Garfield, 1891

“Capital must protect itself in every possible manner by combination & legislation. Debts must be collected, bonds & mortgages must be foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile & more easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of government, applied by a central power of wealth under control of leading financiers. This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of Capital to govern the world.
“By dividing voters through the political party system, we get them to expend energies fighting over questions of no importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been so well planned & successfully accomplished. ~Aug. 25, 1924 USA Banker’s Magazine



[edit on 25-6-2008 by counterterrorist]




posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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The reason why I won't do what counterterrorist does and try and change all of your minds is because I believe in the end it's a matter of choice and people have to learn things out for themselves. I am fortunate enough to live in a country which has 700 years of history, including phases of global imperialism and capitalism and the downside that is the recession cycle when that bublle bursts. Americans sadly don't have that much cultural awareness and are still high on the world dominance that was born out of the first half of the 20th century. It has fueled their patriotism and inflated their notion of self worth so as to think they are better than eveyrone else and their way is the right way. And currently a lot of them are willing to kill anyone who things otherwise.

Meanwhile americas own excess is bringing it down, and blind ego driven patriotism has given americans a massive blindspot to seeing it happen. It's sad and a lot of people are going to get hurt out of this, but I'm powerless to stop it so I just try and make you guys understand the dynamics. You're being ripped off and brainwashed. Capitalism is not what you think it is. Sure, it has a growth phase which is great and makes for wealthy nations... but then you get the concentration phase where you get the rich consolidating and if you're not one of them you're a peon, a glorified slave. And last and least, there is the revolution phase where people just can't take it anymore and people die. Then we rince and repeat. This cycle can be seen all over the world, just read a few history books and read between the lines. Man always tries and explore man untill man can't take it no more and kills man. That's our primitivism, and the only cure is education. So educate yourselves and realise that these petty dualities of capitalism vrs communism are just part of the conditioning and that the reality is much more complex and requires everyone's participation. You can have a free market with a socialist system and you can have a private property in a communist system. They are not what you think they are, in reality they are just marks on the same scale of economic activity all countries have. Read up on that if you guys over stateside want to have more valid economic opinions.

And capping wealth wealth would not affect your private property, unless you're a billionaire (I consider 1m to be too low btw), and if you don't see that my idea would increase your wages... well, you're not up to speed on the thread subject.

And to the few people who just post here as part of the ordo ab chaos crowd, people that seek to maintain duality and conflict, I have only one thing to say: grow up. It's time to be mature, conscious, human beings and realise that what goes around comes around. It's time to realise it's time for peace and prosperity. For ALL.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by slackerwire
 




Um, i don't think that this thread will be relevant on N-day.



Nor when civil war erupts.

That will redistribute wealth like nothing else - war, that is.

Weimar-like.

Mega-billionaires? Worthless Kardashian krapsters? I hope they have

arks, and bunkers; somehow i think a lot of them don't

(including members of the rockefellers, one of their brood

was in my child's class...and they sure DO NOT have

a bunker...)



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
I will try again... ** SIGH **

Since you keep repeating yourself:
A) Please show me where in the Constitution where it mandates a SOCIALIST CENTRAL BANK.


The history of the U.S. showcases Thomas Jefferson wanting a publicly owned central bank, & Alexander Hamilton wanting a privately owned central bank. It’s history, lost history.

“Bankers are a den of vipers. I intend to rout you out & by the Eternal God I will rout you out. If the people only understood the rank injustice of our central bank system, there would be a revolution before morning. If the central bank continues to control our currency, receiving our public monies, & holding thousands of our citizens in dependence, it would be more formidable & dangerous than the naval & military power of the enemy. It is not our own citizens only who are to receive the bounty of our government … More than 8 million dollars of the stock of this bank are held by foreigners … Is there no danger to our liberty & independence in a bank that in its nature has so little to bind it to our country? If government would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favor alike on the high & the low, the rich & the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing.”
~ President Andrew Jackson, 1829-1837

“Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks & corporations that will grow up around will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks & restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.”
~ President Thomas Jefferson, 1801-1809

“Whoever controls the money of a nation, controls that nation & is absolute master of all industry & commerce. When you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by a few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation & depression originate.”
~ President James Garfield, 1891

“Capital must protect itself in every possible manner by combination & legislation. Debts must be collected, bonds & mortgages must be foreclosed as rapidly as possible. When, through a process of law, the common people lose their homes they will become more docile & more easily governed through the influence of the strong arm of government, applied by a central power of wealth under control of leading financiers. This truth is well known among our principal men now engaged in forming an imperialism of Capital to govern the world.

“By dividing voters through the political party system, we get them to expend energies fighting over questions of no importance. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been so well planned & successfully accomplished. ~Aug. 25, 1924 USA Banker’s Magazine



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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reply to post by sos37
 


Your under the impression there IS work.
Gone are the days of affording a home, two cars, fuel for your home and two cars, groceries, etc.
Where I am in Northern BC, people are in real trouble with the lumber / pulp industry closing more and more plants.
My friends in the service industry are having problems because they cannot afford to fuel their vehicles without raising their fees. And passing the buck on to another downtrodden person doesn't necessarily work in a economy that is suffering.
The wages offered to the labour sector are atrocious. Something has to give.

Just my two cents.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by counterterrorist
 


I'm curious. Your argument seems to be not against Capitalism, but against the current banking system. Changing the banking system would not require elimination of Capitalism. Why throw out the baby with the bath water? You must have other motives?



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:27 PM
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Originally posted by counterterrorist

Originally posted by WhatTheory
I will try again... ** SIGH **

Since you keep repeating yourself:
A) Please show me where in the Constitution where it mandates a SOCIALIST CENTRAL BANK.


The history of the U.S. showcases Thomas Jefferson wanting a publicly owned central bank, & Alexander Hamilton wanting a privately owned central bank. It’s history, lost history.


Sorry, but you are not getting off that easy.
You stated that it was in the Constitution that it mandates a socialist central bank. Those are your words, not mine. So please show me IN the Constitution where it mandates such a thing.

Are you now changing your argument and moving the goal posts by saying it's NOT in the Constitution or are you purposefully being disingenuous in order to try and make a lame point? Come on, make up your mind. Is it or is it NOT in the Constitution? If it is, again, please show me where or admit that it is not there. It's a simple request.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by WhatTheory]

[edit on 25-6-2008 by WhatTheory]



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by garyo1954
 



What is minimum wage? $5.50 or something? That comes to $816 a month. Could you live on that? And how could the government, with all those experts, not recognize that impossibility?

Name me one nation, today or in history, that had no poverty, no unemployment, and no homelessness. Just one would be enough.


Hi. I agree with you. Hope I'm not being counterproductive by saying, I know of two countries that have no poverty, unemployment or homelessness. They are (1) The Vatican State and (2) The Sovereign Knights of Malta.

I'm not referring to the religion of Catholicism resided over by the poop, I mean, the Pope. Also, interestingly enough, The Knights of Malta also coin a currency and are recognized as a state by a couple hundred countries.

If you'd like documentation, let me know. It's around here, someplace.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Desert Dawg
Who decides who gets stuck doing the work?


I wanna be one of the guys who gets to sit around waiting for my check....



Me too,

All you have to do is look at Katrina New Orleans. How many years of attempted socialism?



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by counterterrorist
 


This is a great idea,,,,,why because it has worked so well for France,,,China....they live the perfect lives and have no problems at all....Maybe we can see if Stalin is still around and can help us work out some kinks. lol



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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Were living in a fantasy world. Money has no meaning. The elite people who own the privatized federal reserve banks, give the government's worthless non-backed paper. The government's then tax all of the people, business, government sectors, investments, ect. The taxes the government collect, are then given back to the private elite federal reserve system. The federal reserve then prints more paper for the government as needed and this causes inflation. $200 billion was just injected last march. We all are debt owners because, that is how the system works. $9.6 trillion dollers in the hole, the largest debt in the countries history. This can and will lead to economic collapse.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by SaviorComplex
 


So, YOU have a savior complex? Interesting.

Here's your reply:

This has to be among the dumbest threads I have ever seen in my time at ATS. ... We have a word for people who employ this type of thinking: parasites. The parasite is the natural enemy of free men and free will. ... What right do you have to "a million dollars?" What right do you have to the sweat of another man's brow? What have you done to earn anything?


Well, this is certainly not the dumbest reply ... I'm sure you'll reply again. Judging from your satanic-robin-hood-vine-swinging-faerie icon under your name, I certainly see where you're coming from.

You are of course, aware ... somewhat I'd imagine, of HISTORY. Therefore, I'm sure you heard of the 20th Century, that was the one before this one. Well, in the 20th Century, once upon a time, there was a Soviet revolution that swept through Europe FOR WORKING PEOPLE WHO WERE UNDERPAID OR NOT PAID AT ALL, certainly not dimwits.

The whole anti-communist response and anti-socialism response in America to wipe out any democratic attempts are redistribution of wealth, such as THE DEPRESSION, REMEMBER THAT? -- were an attempt by the fascist corporate ownership and interlocking banking directors that rule your ass in America, to wipe you out.

The only parasites around here are the worms feeding on your brain.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:40 PM
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uh, no. The perfect system is one of the communist like that doesn't equally distribute wealth.

I have no problem with government control so long the hardest working get more.

You're theory destroys incentive and kills nations.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 




1) Whom will you steal from when the rich no longer have any money left to take? So what happens once everything has been distributed 'evenly'?


You'll Mr. Whattheory (which does sort of describe your attitude) have to cannibalize yourself instead of destroying others.

And, when income is distributed evenly, no one will starve.

What do you think will happen, neanderathals will start clubbing people to death to steal their money, or their food, or rape their families?

I suppose now you're going to suggest a police state take over to patrol everything. Are you?



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:50 PM
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Interesting thread. I completely disagree with re-distribution of wealth. Yes....there are a handful of people that are so wealthy they could not possibly spend the money in multiple lifetimes. These are few and far between.

If you redistribute wealth to EVERYONE then some that you are taking from are considered middle and upper middle class citizens who have more than likely worked hard and earned their place in the world and continue to strive to build wealth so that their family may survive and prosper.....brings about the "only the strongest survive" saying.

How well has any type of wealth re-distribution ever worked here.....I believe we have tried to bring poverty stricken families help with food stamps and welfare checks and that seems to just demoralize and make the situation worse. Granted there are a few that build themselves back up, but I would take a guess that we can compare that number to the number of ultra wealthy and it would be close to the same.

Now....if you re-distribute wealth, and you seem only to be speaking in monetary terms here, how do you divide land and shelter? If you have a person that has made enough in life to have a couple or three houses and a few hundred acres of land then you take away most of their income how do you suppose the division of land and housing will work? Kinda like the Native Americans? That worked real well....


This is an altogether horrible idea that will never happen in any lifetime of mine and I can guarantee you if it is proposed I will be on the steps protesting any way I can against it. I went to college, got my degree, have my house and family and worked my a$$ off to get there. I will be damned if someone that thinks everyone should be equal will take away what I have earned WITHOUT the help of the impoverished or the insanely wealthy. I don't believe I have ever asked an impoverished person for money, but I can tell you I have been asked numerous times.....how do you think redistribution will work for street people that are not on any census or have no residence? How many people will figure out a way to manipulate the system to get more?

Really? You really want redistribution? I will move to another country before I let that happen to me.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by counterterrorist
reply to post by WhatTheory
 




1) Whom will you steal from when the rich no longer have any money left to take? So what happens once everything has been distributed 'evenly'?


You'll Mr. Whattheory (which does sort of describe your attitude) have to cannibalize yourself instead of destroying others.

And, when income is distributed evenly, no one will starve.

What do you think will happen, neanderathals will start clubbing people to death to steal their money, or their food, or rape their families?

I suppose now you're going to suggest a police state take over to patrol everything. Are you?

Thanks for NOT answering the question again.

Where are you going to get your money to re-distribute once all the money has been distributed? I would love to know how you expect to get money from the rich and give to the poor when there are no more rich to steal from. Since there would be no rich, the economy is flat and stagnate with no innovation and other sources of income. It's a simple question which you seem not to be able to answer.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 



2) And who's going to be in charge of this so-called distribution of wealth? Will a corrupt government be in charge? Please be specific and not just say 'you' will.


WE THE PEOPLE.

Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.
Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by Gemwolf]



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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Why do people keep arguning that incentive is gone with, say a 10 million salary cap.

Yeah punish the rich people who made it? Umm, the rich people are the criminals on top making their own laws to benefit themselves. They get super rich by being criminals, which is the same as saying using the criminal laws.

The rich are rich because of th masses supporting them. There were many other people who were coming up with the same ideas at the same time. But one person is first and wins. He isnt some special genious or something.

Look at the forbes richest lists. Bill gates the richest man in the world...yeah right not a chance. Wheres rothschilds and rockefellers and all those guys. Oh wait there money is out of circulation or in fake charity funds or whatever scams. They have trillions behind the scenes. The int'l bankers are not even audited. Why would anyone care if we took back tthat stolen money.

Talk all you want...but redistribution of wealth is inevitable. No your 50,000/yr isnt going to get taken. THeres plenty of money. THe trillionaries are creating the illusion. Then bring out their free energy tech. and we are all rich.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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Why do people keep arguning that incentive is gone with, say a 10 million salary cap.

Yeah punish the rich people who made it? Umm, the rich people are the criminals on top making their own laws to benefit themselves. They get super rich by being criminals, which is the same as saying using the criminal laws.

The rich are rich because of th masses supporting them. There were many other people who were coming up with the same ideas at the same time. But one person is first and wins. He isnt some special genious or something.

Look at the forbes richest lists. Bill gates the richest man in the world...yeah right not a chance. Wheres rothschilds and rockefellers and all those guys. Oh wait there money is out of circulation or in fake charity funds or whatever scams. They have trillions behind the scenes. The int'l bankers are not even audited. Why would anyone care if we took back tthat stolen money.

Talk all you want...but redistribution of wealth is inevitable. No your 50,000/yr isnt going to get taken. THeres plenty of money. THe trillionaries are creating the illusion. Then bring out their free energy tech. and we are all rich.



posted on Jun, 25 2008 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Vasa Croe
 


That the mega wealthy are few and far between I won't dispute. Problem is they own EVERYTHING, up to a point where sometime soon there will not be a country in the world you can move to if you ever to decide to try and get out from under them. They are, as we speak, seeding the 3rd world with microcredits in an effort to sucker them into the same debt based financial enslavement systems we live under in the western world. And this after being the agents that kept them in poverty in the first place.

If the people of the world let the elites keep their wealth, then the people of the world will inevitably be part of that wealth. What do you think human resources means?

[edit on 25-6-2008 by Zepherian]





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