The only hope for this country is democratic socialism & equal redistribution of wealth, page 2

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reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 11:32 AM by dariousg

Originally posted by counterterrorist
The only hope for this country is democratic socialism & equal redistribution of wealth.

We must immediate liquidate the Fed and redistribute wealth equally in the WHOLE WORLD.

That way, a person will stand or fall by their greed or love.

It's very simple.

Fortunes like Bill Gates' that were built by ripping off wage-earners -- he never would have gotten so rich unless he over-charged for computers. There's only a couple hundred dollars in each one. The parts for the orig mac were $38.

I understand what you are saying and feel for and with you. Yes, the capital market is not exactly a great success. However, it is largely responsible for the amount of wealth that currently exists. It's what has driven technological advances.

I know, you probably aren't so keen on them either but me, I believe that the advances are in our nature. We have benefited as much from (or more) from these advances. Especially on the health care front (now we just need to fix the costs end of things).

Also, you have to do some serious studying of history. This has been attempted, in various forms, many times within countries. It has failed every single time. Why? Because of human greed. Power lust. You can't get away from that. There are always those few who believe they deserve it more than the next person.

You are saying that we need to try this on a global scale. Can't happen. I'm sorry, but we are simply not at a place in our development to pull something like this off. I don't know if we ever will be.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 11:36 AM by counterterrorist

Originally posted by ObamaMomma
Man! this is going to be a monster thread! I wish i'd thought of it!

and I would have to disagree with you, i inherited all my money the hard way and you can't have it.

I hope it is a good thread.

I don't want your money ... first of all, it's not yours, it belongs to the fed. Your money is entirely worthless. However, you get to have one million dollars at all times. period. no more. no less.

The rest will go to pay to national dept to the feds, okay?

Or, you can be a patriot and help nationalize the fed and divest the private thieves who own it who created 9 trillion dollars of capitalist b.s. phoney debt, so even by capitalist standards, you have no right to 'your' money.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 11:55 AM by counterterrorist

The only hope for this country is democratic socialism & equal redistribution of wealth. Since over 95% of Americans die with no savings, it's time to nationalize the Fed. Why do we pay 300 billion dollars a year in interest to these thieves, plus own them 9 trillion dollars in 100 years. We nationalized Bank of England, now, nationalize the Fed.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:05 PM by counterterrorist

reply to post by dariousg

I understand what you are saying and feel for and with you. Yes, the capital market is not exactly a great success. However, it is largely responsible for the amount of wealth that currently exists. It's what has driven technological advances.

Unfortunately, this wealth is in private, not public, hands. And virtually every cent of it was earned by employees doing the work -- who should have the benefit.

Human genius and invention is not capitalistic. Those are human traits. It is the 1% of human who owns 80%-99% of the wealth that must be divested if humanity is to survive. PEOPLE CAN NOT "OWN" THE EARTH, that is total mind control robotics. Why not at least limit a person's wealth to a million dollars in available cash for one lifetime. AND PROHIBIT INHERITANCE or other transfer of wealth, and prohibit wealth being transfered in any way. Just tag a person's 'wealth' with a 666 bar code, and when that person dies, liquidate all assets, and divide it equally among every person on earth -- this money is idolatry in the first place.

Also, you have to do some serious studying of history. This has been attempted, in various forms, many times within countries. It has failed every single time. Why? Because of human greed. Power lust. You can't get away from that. There are always those few who believe they deserve it more than the next person.

Capitalism has also failed every single time.

we are simply not at a place in our development to pull something like this off.

I am.

I don't know if we ever will be.

What I'm hearing is we're afraid to be killed if we advocate redistribution of wealth.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:10 PM by counterterrorist

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
Your desire to punish people with more money than you does not solve the worlds problems. Whom will you steal from when the rich no longer have any money left to take?

I don't want to punish anyone. I just think EVERYONE should have one million dollars and no more.

The rich have all stolen their money, and mostly made it in war profiteering, drug and weapons running, slave-trading, and phone Fed-arranged inflation and deflation pyramid schemes.

The first entity to divest is the FED private owners thereof. And, all the corporations the international bankers own.

The world would be 100 percent better off without privately owned banks.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by counterterrorist]

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:16 PM by counterterrorist

reply to post by Zepherian

In my opinion we would be better off by letting people work and get rich, but have a high wealth cap... let's say 1 billion dollars just as an example. That number is high enough to be an incentive for 99.999% ... also have the benefit of cutting the legs of wannabe czars and fascists as well as keeping family wealth below the point of geopolitical relevance.

but when they have enough money and property to influence the course of nations with whatever tired old and almost without exception totalitarian philosophy they peddle, they should get their financial wings trimmed.

I value your opinion highly. However, I think one million dollars, not one billion, should be the cap --- since it's all a product of the Fed's inflation/deflation pyramid schemes, anyway ... or some other central banks.

Also, people do not need an incentive to work. Creative people work, the rest are just in the way and are slackers. People who don't want to work shouldn't have to. There are enough people around who enjoy working.

We don't need wage slaves or forced slavery in any form. All you have to do is cultivate the land and let people eat the food they harvest. There is no need for capitalism at all -- it is straight fascism.

I especially appreciate your point about capping wealth so people can not peddle their totalitarian influence. I think that's brilliant.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by counterterrorist]

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:24 PM by counterterrorist

Originally posted by Desert Dawg
Who decides who gets stuck doing the work?

I wanna be one of the guys who gets to sit around waiting for my check....

Many countries give $100,000 to $150,000 FREE to EVERY kid up to age 18 or 25. If U.S. capitalism is so great, why don't we? (See, 'Is it true EVERY German child in Germany gets 800euros a month free?' www.abovetopsecret.com...

No problem. You've earned that right. You're a sovereign human being guaranteed that right. The constution talks about inalienable rights provided by our maker.

America was designed as a socialist, communal state until it was taken over by the Bank of England and Rothschilds against whom we declared our independence. It was not until 1913 that the British and German bankers succeeding in paying off Congress, who totally sold out (nothing new, is it?)

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:34 PM by counterterrorist

Originally posted by Desert Dawg
Who decides who gets stuck doing the work?

NOBODY decides but you. When you need a break from sex and whatever and want to do something else for a while, you do. If you don't, you don't.

Most of the labor in the world has been used to accumulate and congregate private wealth. There is no need for private wealth in this world above a certain psychological cap level.

We all get a million bucks in cash when we get here. If we spend it, then it's gone, and just have to go pick food and go fishing.

What's so complicated about that?

ONLY people who want to get educated, and want to work, will. This way the world will be motivated by workers who are self-motivated.

We simply don't need any more pyramids built with slave labor by totalitarian sociopaths and pychopaths like cheney, bush, the queen of england etc.

REMEMBER, all private wealth originated thru murder and/or exploitation.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by counterterrorist]

[edit on 25-6-2008 by counterterrorist]

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:39 PM by counterterrorist

Originally posted by Zepherian
Why do assume it's a hand out? Redistribution of wealth can be done more equitably within the working contracts. I've seen cases of companies paying only 30% of their gross income on all expenses, including worker pay, and the rest is pure profit. ... Imagine if instead of 70% almost pure profit you have most of that pumped back into everyone's wages. ... money should be given to those that make it happen, day in, day out. .

Very brilliant and heartfelt response. Thank you.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:41 PM by garyo1954

Originally posted by LateApexer313

The poorest of OUR ghetto poor, our homeless, our UNEDUCATED in the mountains, the big cities, the streets...are so far ABOVE the poverty level of india's meanest streets, Bangladesh's ghettos and mean streets, Micronesian Islands where you're lucky if you have a straw hut....Cuba's fly-ridden hospitals, Serbia and Croatia's concrete barracks, don't make me go on and on....

Several major flaws I should point out. One that is just a slap in the face to everyone.

It costs more to live in America. So when one says the poor have it better in America than the poor of any other nation, they have generalized to the point the idea of poverty becomes meaningless.

Simply put, when one can't afford the basic necessities where they live, they are poor. It doesn't matter how much they make, if it don't cover their living expenses. The view you've expressed is a nicely spread manure by government shills.

What is minimum wage? $5.50 or something? That comes to $816 a month. In some small counties in this country, that is the going rate for employees. Could you live on that?

And how could the government, with all those experts, not recognize that impossibility? So here's a thought provoking exercise:

Name me one nation, today or in history, that had no poverty, no unemployment, and no homelessness. Just one would be enough.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:45 PM by counterterrorist

Originally posted by LateApexer313
Over my cold dead hands clutching my checkbook !! You can't be serious...like it works so well in Cuba, And the U.S.S.R. and in China BEFORE they started to get all capitalistic? And let's take France, they like it so much they voted in a conservative this time

And who's going to be in charge of this so-called distribution of wealth? This can't be a serious thread lol.

YOU will be in charge of redistribution of wealth, okay? Obviously you're a very bright, socially conscious person who doesn't approve of genocide and war and slavery and wage slavery, so you'd be a great candidate. If you don't want to do it,

then we'll have the poorest people in America decide. What are you afraid of by hiding behind your money ... besides, redistribution of wealth would put a million dollars of cash in your pocket, and you wouldn't have to work unless you wanted to.

C'mon, why gulp down mind control robotics when you can have more money and not have to work unless you felt like improving yourself, not that you need to pursue education to do that ... you might just want to sit around like the TRUE capitalists do, our international BANKERS.

They all have trust funds. You're not a capitalist, YOU JUST THINK YOU ARE.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:54 PM by Zepherian

reply to post by counterterrorist

Thank you for your kind critique. Let me add one thing, for the type of paradigm I propose to work the same limitations on wealth has to exist for corporations and foundations, or it will just work against the goal. The logic behind it is that money is basically an energy, and to make society health that energy has to to be evenely spread out to its members, or we get these tumurous growths that are the modern day elites. Redistribution of wealth is a bit like social panacea, it would cure a lot of the problems we have today but to be implemented it requires a new mindset of what it means to be a person and a fair bit of unconditioning from media and marketing brainwashing.

I think it will eventually happen because people are hurting and I see a lot of discontent with modern liberal paradigms, as people begin to see the con behind the political philosophy and the hidden interests it serves. And, if people really think about it honestly it dosen't change the lives and aspirations of the vast majority of people but just levels the playing field so there is an equal opportunity for all, not just a meaningless legal statute that is not reflected in real world elite driven economics and macroeconomics.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 12:56 PM by counterterrorist

Originally posted by ALightinDarkness
reply to post by Zepherian

Who gets to decide how much your job is or is not worth? Why would anyone have an incentive to take a job that requires a lot of studying (like a doctor) when they could just be a janitor and get paid the same amount?

I have a very interesting statistic for you at the end of this post. Currently about 95% of the world is unemployed. Corporations have totally failed to provide for humanity because of capitalism or excessive hoarding of private wealth.

Once all money in the world is divided equally among all people, then people will fall in to personality slots of those who want to work and those who don't. Those who want peace and those who want war. The trick will be in putting all those who want war together on an island. That should end war fairly soon.

Who gets to decide who is doing the "real work" for a corporation?

You will be given a million dollars in cash. There will be no central bank earning interest therefore there will be no inflation or deflation. We in America are mind-controlled robots and are blind to the simplicity of the garden of eden into which we were born. All we fu*king have to do is plant a seed and go fishing. What's the big deal --- I'll tell you what it is ... capitalism -- private wealth hoarding based on the slave or wage slave sweat of others.

Who gets to force corporations to pay all of their profits out? The government.

Once the Fed is nationalized and the oil companies are nationalized and FORBIDDEN to make excessive profits (over one million dollars per person like everyone else on the planet) -- gasoline will drop down to 10 cents a gallon ... better yet, we'll be running cars on water anyway from hydrogen and oxygen.

BESIDES IN ALL CASES, THE PEOPLE DOING THE WORST JOBS WILL GET AN INCENTIVE AND BE ABLE TO EARN A COUPLE MORE MILLION DOLLARS.

So, if you clean sewers, you get two million dollars a year. If you're smart enough to use the new technology and pasteurize sewage and turn it into clean water and fertilizer, unfortunately you've lost your job and have to live on your one million dollars.

opps, I forgot to put in the statistic, please come back in ten minutes or so and I'll have gotten in it by then. thanks.

Here it is.

The new world order which comes hand-in-glove with the merging of Communism and Capitalism into globalist practices ... is a house of cards without any real sustainability. It’s a fact, 200 multinational transnational corporations control ... and their shareholders own ... over 95% of all private business which is not owned by individual privateers, and are reaping most of the benefit. The flipside of this coin is that all of this economic activity employs only 0.3 per cent of the global workforce.

~ Big Oil & the War on Drugs and Terrorism, by Siegfried E. Tischler, PhD, excerpted from Nexus Magazine, Volume 11, Number 4 Jun-Jul 2004
[edit on 25-6-2008 by counterterrorist]

[edit on 25-6-2008 by counterterrorist]

[edit on 25-6-2008 by counterterrorist]

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 01:03 PM by astrocramp

reply to post by counterterrorist

Well Mr. Mugabe, for one central systems for distributing wealth are prone to corruption and waste. Additional bureacracy results in higher corruption - this is a well studied fact.

Even if somebody has billions in wealth, it's not like this wealth takes the form of piles of gold coins sitting in a vault. It is stocks, bonds, and other financial vehicles that are investments. Investments allow companies to buy goods, hire employees, perform R&D, etc. By removing the incentive to invest, you'd have instantaneous economic collapse. Somebody else brought up Cuba and Zimbabwe, but these are good examples of the failed notion that government elites can predict where and when to invest and how much an occupation, service, or product should cost.

Without the darwinistic mechanisms of capitalism, waste would exponentially increase, and scarcity of even basic goods (such as the soviet union and cuba).

The idea is ridiculous really, I'm surprised people still talk about this sort of thing.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 01:11 PM by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by counterterrorist
I don't want to punish anyone. I just think EVERYONE should have one million dollars and no more.

The rich have all stolen their money, and mostly made it in war profiteering, drug and weapons running, slave-trading, and phone Fed-arranged inflation and deflation pyramid schemes.

This has to be among the dumbest threads I have ever seen in my time at ATS. This is nothing more than pathetic class-jealousy. You've cast everyone who has more than you as thieves and worse. You refuse to work, you refuse to struggle, and just believe everything should be given to you because of the accident of your birth.

We have a word for people who employ this type of thinking: parasites. The parasite is the natural enemy of free men and free will.

What right do you have to "a million dollars?" What right do you have to the sweat of another man's brow? What have you done to earn anything?

[edit on 25-6-2008 by SaviorComplex]

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 01:11 PM by WhatTheory

reply to post by counterterrorist

You keep dodging some important points:

1) Whom will you steal from when the rich no longer have any money left to take? So what happens once everything has been distributed 'evenly'?

2) And who's going to be in charge of this so-called distribution of wealth? Will a corrupt government be in charge? Please be specific and not just say 'you' will.

3) Who gets to decide how much your job is or is not worth? Why would anyone have an incentive to take a job that requires a lot of studying (like a doctor) when they could just be a janitor and get paid the same amount?
The point is innovation is gone which leads to stagnation and then a decline in one's way of life.

Please try and answer these questions with some specifics and detail and not just some sly one sentence remark.

BTW, when has capitalism failed as you said in a previous post.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 01:12 PM by counterterrorist

Originally posted by greenfruit
Also redistribution of wealth sure has worked for Zimbabwe???????

The Bank of England colonized most of Africa and imported aids as a genocidal weapon. When Bank of England founded the Fed in 1913, the same international bankers robbed American taxpayers -- ever stop to think WHO PAYS HALLIBURTON -- it's you, out of your paycheck. It's you, out of your taxes.

BOE & FED destabilized the regions and have deployed biological warfare and chemical warfare and coups and counter-coups in Africa as long as murder has been invented. Give me a break. How well would you do if MI-6 and CIA and BND was buttf*cking you? MI-6 and CIA and BND are fascist private armies employed and deployed by the CAPITALIST INTERNATIONAL BANKERS.

MI-6 and CIA and BND, the respective hencemen of the Bank of England, Fed, and Bundesbank, created the destabilization forces that currently are genociding Africa.

Not that for about 600-800 years Africa didn't have its own war machine was it the Bantu nation, that wiped out hundreds of competing tribes.

But today, if you nuke the bank of england and nuke the fed and nuke the bundesbank, and nuke all the corporate directorates of ALL the oil companies, and let everyone drill their own oil -- why, then the worst thing that could happen is ... what ... absolutely nothing.

PEAK oil is a capitalist myth and you know it.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 01:14 PM by WhatTheory

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
This has to be among the dumbest threads I have ever seen in my time at ATS. This is nothing more than pathetic class-jealousy. You've cast everyone who has more than you as thieves and worse. You refuse to work, you refuse to struggle, and just believe everything should be given to you because of the accident of your birth.

We have a word for people who employ this type of thinking: parasites. The parasite is the natural enemy of free men and free will.

What right do you have to "a million dollars?" What right do you have to the sweat of another man's brow? What have you done to earn anything?

You don't know how correct you are.

However, I am willing to bet the OP will never get it.

reply posted on 25-6-2008 @ 01:17 PM by SaviorComplex

Originally posted by counterterrorist
ONLY people who want to get educated, and want to work, will. This way the world will be motivated by workers who are self-motivated.

That is how the world operates now.