Warmer climates equal less civilized culture

Since it's now summer and the temperatures are rising, I've been cursing the heat. This got me thinking about how fortunate I am to live in a region where it's only hot for a couple months each year. It's my theory that intense heat not only causes people to be more lazy and therefore less productive or self-sufficient, but it also makes them more irritable and prone to irrational confrontation and senseless violence.

Why is it that almost all of the countries listed at the top of the UN's most liveable countries are in regions that have moderate to subarctic climates? Sure, people like to vacation in warm places like, say, the Carribean or the Pacific islands, but no work ever gets done there and countries there have to rely on the tourism industry to survive.

What's the best country in the world to live in? Norway. Closely followed by Iceland. Sweden, Canada, the US and Swizerland are all in the top ten as well. Sounds almost like a hockey tournament! What are the worst countries in the world? Besides sunny Haiti, the bottom 30 are all hot countries in Africa.

www.infoplease.com...

Look at a map breaking down the first, second and third worlds. Every single one of the third world countries has a hot climate. The only two countries in the first world below the equator are Australia and New Zealand.

en.wikipedia.org...:First_second_third_worlds_map.svg

The hotter the climate, the more war. The more crime. The more poverty. The more genocide. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. When was the last time there was a major war fought in a cold country that was never communist? 1945?!

Look at these lists of wars since 1945. They've almost all been fought where it's hot!

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

This is even evident on a national level. While things are changing today with so much worldwide contact via the Internet and easier travel than there was in the past, the most underdevloped, uneducated, unsophisticated, violent, backwords region in the United States is still inarguably the Deep South - which is, of course, very hot.

Before anyone says anything about this, the only reason Detroit, Michigan is the most dangerous city in the United States is that a very large number of Mississippians and Alabamans moved to Detroit in the mid 20th-century and their culture took root. If you look at the history of Detroit, it was a very pleasant and safe place before the 1960s.

The most educated state is Massachusetts, where the winters are very long and very cold, so of course people stay indoors researching, studying and reading. In fact, Virginia is the only Southern or warm weather state in the top ten, but it's easy to explain this by pointing out how much of that state is suburban Washington, D.C. All of the top ten least educated states are located in very hot climates, besides Indiana, although much of the Hoosier state is a lot more like the South than it is like the Midwest.

encarta.msn.com...

Why are the brightest minds in America found in places like Seattle (Microsoft) and the San Francisco Bay (Silicon Valley)? Because of mild summers. Seattle is the most educated big city in the country and coincidentally, the average high temperature in July and August is only 75 degrees (with the low being 56 degrees). In San Francisco, it's even cooler.

seattletimes.nwsource.com...

www.weather.com...

www.weather.com...

I could go on, but I really don't see the need to offer much more evidence. Summer is bad, and so is hot weather!

Then according to your theory Emperor Penguins must be the most civilised beings on Earth.

You would perhaps be interested in the book Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond Guns Germs & Steel WIki which poses the thesis of geographic determinism. My own pet theory is that colder climates put man in a separated and adversarial position to nature, which has resulted in our technocratic culture. Warmer climate peoples tend to work with nature where Caucasians develop technology to work against it.

edit: Another related factor to consider in the development of the northern psyche is the impact of scarcity in colder climates as opposed to nature's relative abundance in warmer ones.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by Shar_Chi]

Far out theory, bro I'm not a big fan of hot weather either. Hot weather seems to make people more hostile and agressive. And cold weather seems to make people calmer and more creative.

Originally posted by EverythingYouDespise
It's my theory that intense heat not only causes people to be more lazy and therefore less productive or self-sufficient, but it also makes them more irritable and prone to irrational confrontation and senseless violence.

Yer mate, it's likened to "tropical madness" and it only ever affects select few in a very intensely hot climate... it's not like it happens on a daily basis..
And i would know - i LIVE in the tropics. Queensland, Australia.

Sure, people like to vacation in warm places like, say, the Carribean or the Pacific islands, but no work ever gets done there and countries there have to rely on the tourism industry to survive.

Oh please...
What exactly does this mean?? What we all sit around on our arses and do nothing?? Are you suggesting that hard working people, like myself, my parents, friends, family and colleagues, actually contribute nothing to the wider community and surrounding area?? Just because we live in a hotter climate? OF COURSE, this is the reason behind our notorious laziness!

Dear sir, this may only affect other people visiting here from colder climates who find the dramatic change in temperature a little too much to handle.. People who have lived in this climate their entire lives certainly would be much more accustomed to the weather we have here. Everyone has different tolerance thresholds..

And as for the having to "survive off the tourism industry", yes we absolutely do utilise our country's magnificant scenery and cultural heritage as a means to give thousands of people jobs, but no it's by no means the be all end all of Australian peoples' livelihoods. Are you quite aware of the hold that coal mining has taken upon my country of origin??

What's the best country in the world to live in? Norway. Closely followed by Iceland. Sweden, Canada, the US and Swizerland are all in the top ten as well.

That's in your opinion - i would hate to live in a freezing cold climate all year round. Again, it comes back to what people are used to.

What are the worst countries in the world? Besides sunny Haiti, the bottom 30 are all hot countries in Africa.
www.infoplease.com...

HA! Australia could be classed as a hot country yes?? And yet Aus is in the TOP NUMBER 3 spot.. You can't include some and then disregard others that "don't fit" your theory.

Look at a map breaking down the first, second and third worlds. Every single one of the third world countries has a hot climate. The only two countries in the first world below the equator are Australia and New Zealand.

en.wikipedia.org...:First_second_third_worlds_map.svg

The hotter the climate, the more war. The more crime. The more poverty. The more genocide. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. When was the last time there was a major war fought in a cold country that was never communist? 1945?!

You know, IMO, poverty, war, crime and genocide are not measured by how hot the climate happens to be. Rather they are measured by the greed, selfishness and indifference that man imposes upon his fellow man. These problems are man made and no amount of "Tropical Fever" could create the situations that we are dealing with now..

And as for genocide?? The exterminating of 6 MILLION European Jews occured in GERMANY. That's UP THERE with all your cold climate buddies of Norway, Sweden and Switzerland.

Look at these lists of wars since 1945. They've almost all been fought where it's hot!

Uhuh, but who STARTED it is what you really should be looking at.. who was the master mind?? That's your crazy guy right there..

..the most underdevloped, uneducated, unsophisticated, violent, backwords region in the United States is still inarguably the Deep South - which is, of course, very hot.

I am now thinking you harbour some sort of hate towards people from the Deep South of the U.S of A...

I'm sorry, i don't see any kids running around shooting people at universities here in Oz.

IMHO, i think your theory that "warmer climates equal less civilsed culture" really bites. I think humanity has enough problems of its own without the climate being blamed.
Oh and i AGREE that extreme hot weather can evoke people into acting more aggressively, but when this happens it is often exclusively in short bursts of madness - not an ongoing illness that could constitute a range of society's problems such as violence, crime, poverty and genocide.



[edit on 25/6/08 by pretty_vacant]

Egypt and South America have pretty warm climates, and they brought forth two of the most advanced civilizations recorded in the ancient world. The Kingdom of Kongo is another well documented civilization that existed in central Africa. This territory lies close to the equator, making it an extremely hot climate. The ancient Congolese civilization had inherited nobility, their citizens paid taxes, they boasted an army of sword-bearers and archers, sat at the center of a wide trade network, wore woven textiles, traded metals and cloth... and all this was developed before their first contact with the Portuguese in the 1400's. All development seems comparable to Europe and Asia of the same time period. The idea of these people being "jungle savages" probably arose gradually after they were converted to Christianity and Europeans began using the population for a source of slaves to trade. A constant barrage of European exploitation, especially by the Belgians, eventually caused a cultural and economic collapse in the area, leading to the impoverished countries of the region today.
I don't think that climate has any bearing on "civilization".. if such a qualifier really needs to matter in the world. My studies in world history have lead me to believe that the phenomenon of the "third world" actually has less to do with the natural tendencies of the people in those countries, and more to do with corruption and exploitation. If you do a little research, you'll find that all of those people were perfectly productive and self-sufficient before they were "civilized".
Also, Finland is a chilly Scandinavian country, and has a really high suicide rate (I think it is declining though). My point is, maybe all that hard work and civilization really gets them down.

Heh, I'd also like to argue that most modern conflicts, including the ones I see on those quoted wikipedia pages, seem to me to be brought about by just a few causes:

1) Border conflicts and civil wars due to the impositions of colonialism.

2) Countries trying to gain independence from said colonial powers.

3) Countries having revolutions against the criminal governments installed by said colonial powers.

4) Colonial powers going back out to reconquer independent nations when they want control of resources.

Did I miss anything? What do you think causes these wars? People felt their hair frizzing up in the heat and just got mad?

Okay, one more thing.. the antebellum South, despite the deplorable institution of slavery, was well known for being gentile.

*takes a breath to go on*

Oh, I think I've made my point. I could write a thesis with my evidence against this hypothesis. I think I'd better stop before I get mad. (It's this heat.. makes me cranky)

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
My own pet theory is that colder climates put man in a separated and adversarial position to nature, which has resulted in our technocratic culture. Warmer climate peoples tend to work with nature where Caucasians develop technology to work against it.

edit: Another related factor to consider in the development of the northern psyche is the impact of scarcity in colder climates as opposed to nature's relative abundance in warmer ones.

[edit on 24-6-2008 by Shar_Chi]

That's a very interesting point. Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. It makes a lot of sense that civilizations that live in very cold climates would have to rely on human intuition and hard work moreso than people who live in a lush, tropical climate where it's easy to let nature provide them with the food they need to sustain themselves and simply spend their days leisurely.

To the Australian who seemed to be upset by my theory, I'd like to assure you that no offense was intended and if you re-read my original post, you'll see that I even acknowledged how Australia and New Zealand are the only countries in the Southern Hemisphere that do not follow this trend. At the time of my writing that, I didn't bother to explore why that is the case, but I've since concluded that Australia and New Zealand don't suffer so harshly from the consequences of a warm climate because their inhabitants are recent descendents from a cold, wet climate - Britain. Natives to that region, however, are known as some of the most savage and primitive people on the planet. Until just a few decades ago, cannibalism and headhunting were exceedingly common and modernization and civilization was still quite foreign.

LovelyDoom's posts were also quite well-thought out and I enjoyed your contribution even though I still do not agree with you. First of all, you bring up the ancient civilizations in Egypt and South America. Personally, I don't believe that these civilizations were indeed much like the way academics claim they were. They did not build their pyramids and other megalithic structures, for example, and the most likely scenario is that advanced beings from another planet provided these civilizations with their astrological knowledge. If the ancient South Americans were so advanced, why did they practice mass human sacrifice to appease their gods whenever the crops were bad? Why were the Spaniards able to defeat them so easily, even with such smaller numbers? If the Egyptians were so great, why did they stay in such a miserable, harsh piece of land? Surely they could have found better territories.

Your post about how most modern conflicts have ties to colonialism doesn't do much to change my opinion either. You have to ask yourself why these people were colonized in the first place - because they were more primitive and unable to defend themselves from superior people who came from COLDER climates. It's human nature to conquer your neighbors and steal their resources if you need them, but the warm climate people never have the will or ability to do so to anyone but each other.

And how can you use the Antebellum South to refute my arguments? Those people were notoriously lazy and unproductive. If they didn't have slaves, nothing would ever get done there and it finally took Northerners carpetbagging and moving down there to set the South on its slow, slow path toward modernity (which is finally nearing its completion now). Just about the only thing they could get fired up about was violence. They fought duels and engaged in passion murders and even worked themselves up into enough of a fury to start a civil war.

[edit on 27-6-2008 by EverythingYouDespise]

I don't have a lot of time but I just want to bring up a question.. you say extraterrestrials introduced the sciences to primitive man, so exactly what did the humans in colder climates come up with on their own that makes them superior?

And I'm not sure how human sacrifice to appease the gods is any worse than hunting for "witches" and "devils" to end bad luck or ensure a place in Heaven, which is what your "advanced civilizations" were doing at the same time.

Thanks for such a prompt reply!

Anyway, I think it's pretty clear that the primitive people visited by ancient astronauts did not fully understand them. After all, they misinterpreted their technology as divinity and while they would imitate their "gods", they didn't really know what they were doing. Therefore, things like the Mayan calendar simply give the appearance of an understanding of astrology - just as the pyramids provide the appearance of Egyptians' technical and mathematical knowledge. The problem is, you assume that these primitives actually created the artifacts left behind.

I'm glad you brought up the foolishness of the Europeans during the Dark Ages because it can actually help to illustrate my point while reminding us of the danger posed by exposure to warm climatic culture.

What was responsible for the Dark Ages? Christianity! But where did that come from?....

The hot Middle East!

send 'em off to Siberia !

teach 'em civilisation already !

Well Greece, Italy and Turkey are considered hot climes, so bang goes your theory.

reply to post by LovelyDoom


Is this a sideways swipe at Australians?
Worst theory ever!

Hey, I didn't post that stuff about Australia, Australia is awesome.
In fact I love everyone on this Earth, I didn't mean to offend any nationality.. I am American myself, so you see I don't have a leg to stand on if we want to play "Who's the Monster?" but we need to be honest about our problems, where they came from, and how to fix them. What's done is done, I'm working to try to heal the wounds. The sort of speculations like the one from the OP here can only lead to more blame and division, you know?
To me it sort of smacks of "Hey, let's blame the Jews"... a dangerous trend.

reply to post by Wotan


Sod that, practically every ancient civilisation we know of has it's roots near the equator.

OP: You've set yourself a pretty high standard to beat.

o.k nice theroy.

just to add to this, and i guess some will find this strange but..

when ever i holiday nearer to the equator i find the days feel shorter than in little old england, thinking about it as your closer to the equator you would be travelling miles more in the day giving the impresion of doing more so days go quicker. at the poles your days our longer giving more (aparent) time in a slower moving enviroment to conemplate yor decions and be more rational.

Ok its wierd, time is time and maybe i have lost the plot, but its the truth i swear, lmao

That's a really interesting point, Anonymous. I'm not sure what effect the length of the day would have on a culture, but now that you mention it I definitely think it would cause differences. Personally, during the summertime when it seems like it's bright for almost all the time I'm awake (the sun's up by four and doesn't go all the way down until well into the night), I find myself a little less motivated to get anything done. Maybe it's because subconsciously it feels like I've got all the time in the world to do so.

Originally posted by Shar_Chi
You would perhaps be interested in the book Guns, Germs, and Steel by Jared Diamond Guns Germs & Steel WIki which poses the thesis of geographic determinism. My own pet theory is that colder climates put man in a separated and adversarial position to nature, which has resulted in our technocratic culture. Warmer climate peoples tend to work with nature where Caucasians develop technology to work against it.
[edit on 24-6-2008 by Shar_Chi]

Thanks for the suggestion. I just picked up a copy of this book from the library last night and it looks to be a very interesting read. While it doesn't seem like the author shares the same appreciation of the nature of this phenomenon as I do, I look forward to getting at a detailed explanation from a proper evolutionary biologist.

And, to add to my proof, I just came across this item:

www.telegraph.co.uk...

It's an article about a study that proved frozen embryos produce healthier, better human babies than fresh ones. Logically, one could take this further and assume that it is best to conceive a child in the coldest environment possible.

And that's not all I've read today! This item just came out about a study on the happiest and least happy countries in the world:

news.bbc.co.uk...

Unsurprisingly to those in the know, Denmark came out on top, followed closely by Switzerland, Austria and Iceland. Zimbabwe and Burundi were at the bottom of the list. Probably because of the miserable heat and corresponding lack of enough sunglasses.