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Hmm... maybe you have some thoughts on the biology of spitting forth fire?
Originally posted by Valhall Wow...that's a bold statement isn't it? Knowledge puffeth up...lol.
Originally posted by Guerilla
Thanks for you Answers,
To me, and this is my own personal opinion, you and Christians like you, are good people.
Thanks for not turning this into a debate.
This ayah is for you.
[002:062] Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Salaam
Thanks
Guerilla
Also, let us look at Hebrews 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son...." Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael was 13 years older than Isaac. Yet we see that "his one and only son" expression was used for Isaac. The Bible uses expressions like this to magnify people or to glorify someone on a certain occasion. The Bible in this verse glorifies Isaac for being the chosen sacrifice to God, according to what the Jews and Christians claim in their corrupted Bible. So Jesus being God's "only begotten Son" in John 3:16 doesn't make him God nor the only Son of God.
Originally posted by madmanacrosswater
the sons and daughters of God.
The inconsistencies of the Bible do no lay within, but in each's interpretation of such.
Originally posted by sanctum
Si, it's impossible due to a lot of factors.
Originally posted by SimpleTruth
Ok, your first criticism was that God created man just to be a gardener for His garden. Well, God created people for two reasons. The foremost reason was to, yes, serve Him, but not as gardeners, but as to praise and worship Him and to spread His glory.
Secondly, He made us because of His desire to share His love with a creation, and for us to be benefactors of that love. And about the garden, it's funny to consider that God even needed a garden. He doesn't need one, and therefore doesn't need gardeners. If He needed one, well He would be here on earth stuck in one today. No, the purpose of the garden, and of earth in general was to provide humans with a place to live and a means to sustain them. He had them tend to it because He gave Adam domain over Eden. It was his. If you own something, you need to tend it, whether you own your own business or a piece of property or car or what have you. To be able to tend the garden was a privilege because God gave it to Adam to command as his own!! Not as a chore! Unless, you are someone who wants no ownership of anything, you should understand this very well. But you say it gives no reason as to why He created us. These become apparent as you read the bible.
Your next criticism is of God lying to Adam and Eve about their death. First, realize this. Before they ate the fruit, they had not sinned as of yet. They had intimate contact and communion with God on a level that we cannot experience today. Their spirits were completely pure and not marred at all. However, in the act of sinning, their spirits lost purity and were pulled away from God. Why? Because if God is to be God, He cannot have sin or evil Himself, nor be amongst it, even commune with it on that same intimate level. He is the epitome of purity and love.
So basically, the sin set a barrier between man and God. THIS is what God refers to as their death.
Death originally means to be apart or disconnected from God, so this makes PERFECT sense.
Also, Adam and Eve lost their immortality, and so would later die in flesh as well. And no, God didn't want to keep them from eating the fruit to keep them dumb, but so they could remain with Him, because He desires to be with us and love us. So God speaks TRUTH of their death.
Next. The serpent comes along. You say He tells the truth. Only partially. Yes, he's correct when he tells them they will gain certain knowledge. But the knowledge is of what it's like to be apart from God, as satan was.
It's knowledge in the sense that now, Adam and Eve realized they didn't HAVE to follow God. But, just because a new option for a course of action appears for you in life, doesn't mean that it's automatically better. Satan decieved Adam and Eve in order to disrupt their relationship before. And as a result, the PARADISE and carefree ways of life were ENDED for Adam and Eve, because of satan's influence and malicious lies.
Next, let's look at the criticism about the name of Adam. You are at least partially correct of your translation. I know that Adam implies earth or of the earth. I have not heard of the blood, but that's fine, I give you the benefit of the doubt. You don't think the way God refers to humans is respectful. Well, a couple points on that. First of all, He doesn't refer to Adam as WHO he is, but WHAT he is. You're right there I guess. Well, do you not like it when parents refer to children as kids, or child, or son or daughter? If a dad has a few boys, and calls to one of them, "come here my son", he is not specifying the certain boy. He is using a term that is generalized for all his boys and not by the son's own name.
Secondly, earlier in the bible, God says He made man in His own image. So, if God was disrespecting Adam, then He would be disrespecting Himself as well. Third, I just don't think this is a big deal.
So, let's recap: On one hand we have the all loving God. He created man to share His love with and to have him glorify Him and spread His glory. He granted Adam control over the garden and animals as an amazing privelege, not to be gardeners, because God doesn't care about having a garden other than it was necessary to provide a living place for people. His warning of death was truth and warned because He didn't want His intimate connection with Adam and Eve to be broken. He knew that if they did, they would be cast out and suffering would ensue afterwards. This is evident today as you look at the way of the world. He did not want this for His creation.
So would you have preferred to remain in paradise as God had intended, or do you have preference to suffering of the world by way of satan? God, or satan?
Last comment. Your take on Genesis is very interesting. It's impressive actually because of certain insights you show. But think of this: If satan were the one who cared for us, and God the one who decieved us, why would God in his deception, give us a chance to hear of the "good" thing satan did for us in the very book that describes and glorifies Him? A deceitful God wouldn't. That, perhaps, is the most convincing and simple truth out of all these arguments of why you have it backwards. I hope that helps!
Originally posted by sugeshotcha
Simpletruth: so why would God try to harm people by creating gene deformities?? Also which passages in the bible say that God introduced these genetic deformities to the incestous procreating man and woman??
Originally posted by Guerilla
Hi there again,
Those are great answers, but you are not providing me with proofs, please brother if you don�t mind I would like some proofs on what you are saying, if its ok and if you have time that is.
I would like some proof of when and where in the OT, did they predict he will die, I would also like the word Die in the prophecy too.
�Many Jews saw Him for what He was and became Christians�
Would it be right for us to call them �Christians�, or that they were following the message that Jesus(pbuh) came down to tell them?
Most of them that did choose to follow Prophet Jesus(pbuh) would have infact done everything that he taught them to do, so they would probly go to the temples to pray, Circumcise(If that�s how u spell it) there Kids and follow the Laws of the Torah-(The real Laws). Just as Prophet Jesus(pbuh) asked them too, or am I wrong?
So if im not wrong, and if some Jews did infact follow him, before St Paul came along, it is safe to say that they had just reverted back to the Law?
Now if I am correct on this, what has happened to the present day �Christians�?
Why is it that when I ask a Christian, Aren�t you ment to follow The Law?
Some of them say, �We are free from Laws�, what does that mean, please explain?
Salaam, Thanks
Guerilla
Originally posted by Valhall
Christ is not to be worshipped in any form or fashion.
Christ, in fact, did worship God and taught that the great commandment was to Love God with all your heart and all your soul and to love your brother as yourself.
That pretty much sums it up there...Jesus taught to get your priorities straight.
The early Christians did not worship Christ, they worshipped the one true God that he came to share with the world. Modern Christians (if they know what they're doing!) do not worship Christ. They worship the one true God.
They uphold Christ as their mediator to the one true God, because that in essence is what he did. He replaced the archaid Judeaic system of the High Priest mediating between the laity and God...Christ now does that for us. We do not pray to Christ, but we pray in his name as the mediator who stand before the one true God and petition for us and our needs.
I will look that scripture up now and post it here.
[Edited on 8-3-2004 by Valhall]
Originally posted by Valhall
If your uncle prays to Jesus instead of God...yes, him and I would believe different.
There is no foundation to praying to Jesus instead of God. When Jesus was on earth he was emphatic that the authority that he had at that time was strictly from the Father. He also was very clear that he was not omniscient - only the Father knew certain things.
Maybe one of the most mistaught and misleading characteristics of Christ is his divine nature. The most misused quote from Christ may very well be "the Father and I are one". I simply do not understand how anyone with a Bible can read the 4 gospel accounts and pick this single quote out - say Christ and God are exactly the same - and then ignore the MULTIPLE isntances of Christ pointing out that he is LESS than God.
The analogy that I like to use is as follows: my bedroom is 100% part of my house. You cannot be in my bedroom without being in my house. You most definitely can be in my house, without being in my bedroom. So, my bedroom is 100% my house, BUT it is not 100% OF my house...my house is more than my bedroom - but they have the same nature (i.e. they are one).
It is an unfortunate twisting of the Gospels and the lack of study by believers that leads to confusion about Christ - and it's a sad, sad situation.
Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Jumping in for the fun-of-it...
1) Why is it that two creation stories can be read within Genesis?
Genesis 1:27
Genesis 2:18-
2) Can a being such as God ever get tired?
Isaiah 40:28
but...
Exodus 31:17
3) We know that dragons never existed... but Isaiah seems to think differently.
Isaiah 30:6
[Edited on 8-3-2004 by SkepticOverlord]
Originally posted by DaTruth
Explain this one SimpleTruth
Also, let us look at Hebrews 11:17 "By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son...." Abraham had two sons: Ishmael and Isaac. Ishmael was 13 years older than Isaac. Yet we see that "his one and only son" expression was used for Isaac. The Bible uses expressions like this to magnify people or to glorify someone on a certain occasion. The Bible in this verse glorifies Isaac for being the chosen sacrifice to God, according to what the Jews and Christians claim in their corrupted Bible. So Jesus being God's "only begotten Son" in John 3:16 doesn't make him God nor the only Son of God.
So why did the bible say that he was going to sacfrice his only son when he had two sons?
Originally posted by sanctum
SimpleTruth, I am an athiest but, if u could explain
'Noahs Ark', in practical terms that would be cool!
To me, it's impossible due to a lot of factors,
S.
Originally posted by SpittinCobra
Originally posted by sanctum
Si, it's impossible due to a lot of factors.
I agree with you, But alot of the bible is impossible, spliting the sea, talking to god, resurection...... Atleast impossible, to how life is seen now.
Originally posted by Faceless
Originally posted by SimpleTruth
Ok, your first criticism was that God created man just to be a gardener for His garden. Well, God created people for two reasons. The foremost reason was to, yes, serve Him, but not as gardeners, but as to praise and worship Him and to spread His glory.
Genesis never says that. God created Adam then put him to work in the garden, end of. Everthing else you say is just your belief with nothing to back it up. You are just "padding" it out with stuff that isn't there.
Secondly, He made us because of His desire to share His love with a creation, and for us to be benefactors of that love. And about the garden, it's funny to consider that God even needed a garden. He doesn't need one, and therefore doesn't need gardeners. If He needed one, well He would be here on earth stuck in one today. No, the purpose of the garden, and of earth in general was to provide humans with a place to live and a means to sustain them. He had them tend to it because He gave Adam domain over Eden. It was his. If you own something, you need to tend it, whether you own your own business or a piece of property or car or what have you. To be able to tend the garden was a privilege because God gave it to Adam to command as his own!! Not as a chore! Unless, you are someone who wants no ownership of anything, you should understand this very well. But you say it gives no reason as to why He created us. These become apparent as you read the bible.
And again, this is nothing more than your opinion (or Christian belief whatever you want to call it). Because none of this is stated. Again you are just twisting what is actually written.
Your next criticism is of God lying to Adam and Eve about their death. First, realize this. Before they ate the fruit, they had not sinned as of yet. They had intimate contact and communion with God on a level that we cannot experience today. Their spirits were completely pure and not marred at all. However, in the act of sinning, their spirits lost purity and were pulled away from God. Why? Because if God is to be God, He cannot have sin or evil Himself, nor be amongst it, even commune with it on that same intimate level. He is the epitome of purity and love.
So its OK for him to create something that is capable of creating evil? Is he not connected to it by this?
So basically, the sin set a barrier between man and God. THIS is what God refers to as their death.
Care to give me a quote that proves this? The serpent seemed to understand the word "death".
Death originally means to be apart or disconnected from God, so this makes PERFECT sense.
Again, show me a quote that says this to prove thats it not just your belief/opinion.
Also, Adam and Eve lost their immortality, and so would later die in flesh as well. And no, God didn't want to keep them from eating the fruit to keep them dumb, but so they could remain with Him, because He desires to be with us and love us. So God speaks TRUTH of their death.
Then please explain to me why the only thing that changed was they realised they were naked after eating it.
Next. The serpent comes along. You say He tells the truth. Only partially. Yes, he's correct when he tells them they will gain certain knowledge. But the knowledge is of what it's like to be apart from God, as satan was.
Who said that this serpent was apart from god? Everything is brand new here, I didn't know Satan had "fallen" yet?
It's knowledge in the sense that now, Adam and Eve realized they didn't HAVE to follow God. But, just because a new option for a course of action appears for you in life, doesn't mean that it's automatically better. Satan decieved Adam and Eve in order to disrupt their relationship before. And as a result, the PARADISE and carefree ways of life were ENDED for Adam and Eve, because of satan's influence and malicious lies.
I personally don't see that as paradise, and im sure there are many other people that don't. I also don't see how it was carefree for Adam and Eve, maybe it would have been if THEY had gardeners to do their work for them. And again you say the word "lies", tell me exactly what was a lie? The serpent never said that they would stay with god, he never said they wouldn't be thrown out and I'm pretty sure both Adam and Eve knew that they would be before they ate the fruit.
Next, let's look at the criticism about the name of Adam. You are at least partially correct of your translation. I know that Adam implies earth or of the earth. I have not heard of the blood, but that's fine, I give you the benefit of the doubt. You don't think the way God refers to humans is respectful. Well, a couple points on that. First of all, He doesn't refer to Adam as WHO he is, but WHAT he is. You're right there I guess. Well, do you not like it when parents refer to children as kids, or child, or son or daughter? If a dad has a few boys, and calls to one of them, "come here my son", he is not specifying the certain boy. He is using a term that is generalized for all his boys and not by the son's own name.
I find this hard to believe. If this is true then why doesnt god call him "my son" or "child" or whatever like dads do? My dad never said to me "hey come here one made of sperm".
Secondly, earlier in the bible, God says He made man in His own image. So, if God was disrespecting Adam, then He would be disrespecting Himself as well. Third, I just don't think this is a big deal.
Depends what you mean by "image", God wouldnt be disrespecting himself because surely god isnt made from flesh and blood? Obvsiously humans are not identicle to gods image, he is always refered to as "he" so i presume the women here are not created in gods image? If men are the same as god why would god need a penis? There are no other gods are their? He doesnt procreate does he? Maybe im being stupid here but it just doesnt make sense to me. Why would god ever need a physical body anyway? If we were created in gods image then that implies that god himself is a physical biped mamal! It doesn't make sense.
So, let's recap: On one hand we have the all loving God. He created man to share His love with and to have him glorify Him and spread His glory. He granted Adam control over the garden and animals as an amazing privelege, not to be gardeners, because God doesn't care about having a garden other than it was necessary to provide a living place for people. His warning of death was truth and warned because He didn't want His intimate connection with Adam and Eve to be broken. He knew that if they did, they would be cast out and suffering would ensue afterwards. This is evident today as you look at the way of the world. He did not want this for His creation.
Then he messed up big time, this world is just wrong!
So why doesn't he try again?
AND THIS IS IMPORTANT! : I know this has nothing to do with the bible and christianity but I would like the opinion of a christian on this: why did god mess about making dinosours? Why was this missing from the bible?
So would you have preferred to remain in paradise as God had intended, or do you have preference to suffering of the world by way of satan? God, or satan?
It's people that # this world up, i've never seen Satan do anything and I've never seen god try to help.
Last comment. Your take on Genesis is very interesting. It's impressive actually because of certain insights you show. But think of this: If satan were the one who cared for us, and God the one who decieved us, why would God in his deception, give us a chance to hear of the "good" thing satan did for us in the very book that describes and glorifies Him? A deceitful God wouldn't. That, perhaps, is the most convincing and simple truth out of all these arguments of why you have it backwards. I hope that helps!
Because its just a historical record thats why its there. It simply tells what happened.
BTW who wrote genesis?
You say you know Hebrew and have been comparing it with translations? I would be very interested to hear your opinion on the translation of Isaiah 14:12.
Also have you started any of those other threads you mentioned yet? I like the sound of them
Sorry if I sound harsh/offensive, I don't mean to.
Originally posted by Faceless
A couple more questions about Genesis have just sprung to mind:
1) Is Genesis telling of the creation of Earth or the whole universe?
2) What is gods reason for creating the whole universe if all he created was us humans on Earth?
3) Whats the deal with all the evolution thats been discovered? God created everything as-is didn't he?
4) If god create us to just share his love whats his reasons for angels?
5) An eternity in hell for sinning doesn't sound very forgiving to me, can you explain this?
I may have more questions depending on the answers given here.