. I find that a lot of the moderators on this forum have very biased views. Some act worse than newcomers.

Seven pages with my morning coffee, and interesting reading. Normally, I do the old eye roll when these threads come up, and I did for this one as well. But I often read on in hopes of a jewel or two amongst the dregs. For once I was rewarded with a bonanza.

I have starred and applauded more than once in this thread; more than normal. I've never been known for handing out applause like party favors, so that says a lot. There are some valid points raised and met, and growth should result from that. I like growth, though it's often painful for all concerned.

Rosobasi420, I'll get back to you in a moment.

Donoso, you and I joined at around the same time, yet it seems we have taken divergent paths in our attitude about the value of ATS. Where you sound as if ATS has failed you, I feel the opposit. Perhaps it's the glass half empty or half full problem.

LateApexer313, you have my star. Thanks for keeping the laughter, and the strangely accurate view of ATS, in our minds. We need, IMO, to come here for enjoyment, not to increase our stress, as some appear to do.

loam, you're right, it is the responsibility of members, not staff, to keep the quality high. To "blame" ATS for poor quality, when it is all member generated material that we're about, is like blaming the water because you can't swim.

And last, but certainly not least, back to our OP. You lament the days of yore, but one has to wonder if what you really lament is the innocence you came to ATS with as oppossed to the self you are now. Were you the polished urbane poster then, self confident and fact filled? Go back and read your old posts with a critical eye, you may be surprised. And yet you would have that experience denied others just to satisfy the new and improved you?

And for those few who question the training and intentions of the staff. I can speak for no one but myself, but I assure you I want basically the same thing most of you want; a better ATS. There isn't a training course for moderators, we just police ourselves and each other, the same as members should do. As a matter of fact, I still have no idea how I was even chosen to be asked to take the position, as I'm an outspoken, sometimes harsh, critic of ignorance in all it's forms.

I can also be wrong, make errors, fail to notice, be blind, have shortcomings, make assumptions, have a bad day, and all the other things that we humans are prone to be and do. The only remedy is to pick myself up, dust off, and go forward. I get no compensation for this job other than the self satisfaction that I will leave the world a better place for having gave back.

And if you think there's nasty ignorance and hate on the boards, you should read some of the names I've been called in U2Us. And the ironic thing about being called a low down Natzi ******** is half the time it comes from people complaining about how they see so much hate and ignorance posted in threads.

So maybe, in the final analysis, it's more about what you want from ATS; from yourself. If you come here to learn and grow as a person, and to assist your fellow man in growing, then you stay in the good times and the bad. You assist where you can, and you deny ignorance without denying others, and yourself, the right and chance to grow beyond ignorance.

But if you come here seeking a refuge for just your own brand of tinfoil, then you spend your time seeking converts and complaining that the porridge is too hot or too cold. If your attitude is to sway others, because you already have all the answers, and complaining when they fail to be pursuaded, you're unlikely to grow anything except an ever greater harvest of cynicism.

ATS, like life, gives you back only what you invest, and it gives you back exactly the fruit you plant the most.

Edit because I failed at spelling "porridge" correctly.



[edit on 25-6-2008 by NGC2736]

An old man came home and sat down frustrated and sullen because he just came home from the doctors He just found out that he only had a few more years to live As a young man who grew up next door to this old man walked he noticed his disposition and ask"why are are you so sad and frustrated"The old man without answering said "come with me I'll show you my collection".

The Old man showed him the butterfly collection he amassed his whole life.He rarely showed anyone his collection. The young man looked perplexed at the old man and said"come with me"
and took the old man next door into the backyard and into A green house filled with butterflies fluttering and flying.
They were the most exotic and rare of butterflies the old man has ever seen.

The young man said" Me and my friends have been breeding butterflies and releasing them into the neighborhood since we where young, and we often wonder why some of them would disappear"
"Your welcome to come and enjoy our collection and come to where we release them but please don't kill them and hide them in your collection any more"

The old man spent the rest of his days enjoying his new friends and their butterfly collection and taught them the knowledge that he knows.
the young group of friend taught the old man how to breed butterflies

The butterflies are wisdom,perception and knowledge

I may be the wisest young person on the earth. If I never develop the ability to express it..... my wisdom dies with me.

So teach me....... so you can be more wise and grow



[edit on 25-6-2008 by The Utopian Penguin]

Here is an idea.
Charge sign up fee, something not too low that anyone would join but substantial enough that they would REALLY want to join to cough it up say maybe $10 bucks?

Give the new member 3 months or so to see how they behave, have the mods take a vote and if the 3 month member passes return the $10 bucks back and let them stay, if they get "voted of the island" give them their $10 dollars back and bann them. If they get banned before the 3 month time so be it as long as they get their money back.

just an idea...

Hey just wanted to add that I enjoyed reading some very good posts in this thread. Personally, I tend to avoid new members who post hateful threads.

Originally posted by Crakeur
truth is, we have actually lost some potential revenue thanks to some of the posts that appear on the front page. You read that right. We were working with a company and they saw some ridiculous post on the front page and told us they didn't want to advertise on a site that had that kind of stuff being discussed.

Hmm, this has been my concern lately in the aliens/ufos forum. Newbies register and their first post is a wild speculative theory...

I had a dream last night and I'm certain it's the truth. A reptilian told me they are from the future and use the greys to help create a hybrid race for when earth is destroyed. Yes destroyed! On 2012 planet X will hit earth and no one will survive.....

You know those type of posts. The ones which belong in skunk works but somehow make a home in the aliens/ufos forum. They tend to garner a lot of popularity and end up on the ATS front page. Not good if you ask me... but that's just my opinion.

Newbie here. I am an "oldbie" on other forums on the web. I've observed new members, and they seem to come in waves. The majority seem to assimilate into the group, many finding their own way to contribute positively to the charter of the site. Others, seem to come with an agenda of disruption. I've said for a long time that I dislike seeing someone use a place I enjoy as a playground, but I have to recognize that even those branded as trolls provide a service sometimes, in that they help us to define our boundaries, and what we hold acceptable.

I think ATS gives us a lot of rope to either extend it to others, or to hang ourselves with it if we choose. Just the short time I've been here, I feel that the moderation of this site is far less draconian that others I frequent, and that surprises me a little, given the focal points of this site. I don't think I'd enjoy being a Mod here...... I strive for personal tolerance with others and most of the time I just ignore the threads and few members that I think are intentionally stirring the soup -- that is, not opening a question or statment for debate or examination, but just tossing a metaphorical dead rat into the soup to see who screams.

yah. I suffer from verbosititis. I'm working on that too.

Why was Raso's post edit by Springer?
Odd, very odd.
Not only that, it makes no sense.

And the doubt said to stop complaining or something and do something about it. Well, speaking up is doing something about it. Other than that, our hands, the members, are tied.


admin edit: removed promotion of site non gratis

[edit on 6-26-2008 by Springer]

As one of the recent additions, I can say I've been welcomed. I spend most of my time reading threads as opposed to posting, and I hope that I'll soon have enough posts to enjoy some of the additional benefits of board participation.

I have to agree with those posters in the thread that throw their weight behind freed of speech. I think it's critical that people express themselves honestly on a forum such as this so that the quality posters can be identified and also, so that the complete and total stoopf***s can be identified as well. We need to identify the racists and bigots so we can profile them and treat (ignore?) them accordingly.

i do completely agree at the lack of quality threads and responses we have seen recently.
While I'm fairly new here, ATS is the site i spend the most time on when I get online, and from the short time I've been here, I too have seen this decline.

I'm almost embarrassed now to give away the site info.
I used to recommend the site to lots of people, but now, when most of the home page highlighted topics are crap, it speaks bad of me if i were to mention the site to someone and the first thing they see are crap threads.

While I still love ATS, it take a lot of digging around to find a quality thread.
When you find one, its awesome, but then you also have to read through a lot of crappy posts.

The real problem with having so many people voice their opinions (and a lot of young, inexperienced people imo) is that the posts start to look like youtube posts...
Have you ever tried reading posts on youtube? it sucks, and most of the people have no idea what they are talking about...

Its a new age I suppose, but perhaps it will make me spend my points on the top secret ATS thing, perhaps then I'll find quality threads with quality, experienced members...

"Quantity over quality"? I don't think so. It's just as a site grows it becomes more visible to a greater audience and you are going to attract more people. As that happens you are also going to attract more ignorant people as well. Law of averages. We're better than we used to be. I got a trip down memory lane yesterday, a thread that I participated in when I first arrived and thought, "Man, did we ever allow stuff like that?"

Originally posted by bobafett1972
Why was Raso's post edit by Springer?

Better question is....what was edited other than a reference to another site? Might it be good form for an admin, moderator, or owner to leave some indication of what exactly was altered in a post?

I'm hopeful Springer intended to leave a small note, explaining, "I did this" or, "I did that"....something; but was maybe in a rush and simply overlooked that little courtesy. I think civility demands in the case of an admin edit, the edits are described in detail, or a different font color....something.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by MrPenny]

I am completely a noob, here!!! (as for posting and having an account )

For much I my life I find that those that fear, or have consistant doubts are the ones who label, or take aim despite conclusive data and facts.

Example, which is easier, destruction or preservation? Those with knowledge shouldn't let the seekers of malicious attention take away from the subject matter in thread. But yet again spamming threads continuously by individuals shouldn't be tolerated as well.

The best thing to offer the world is solutions, act the right way and do the right things, offer the truth.

If you find you get ridiculed or tormented here because of that, then maybe as others had stated, those doing the "attacking" or "complaining" cannot digest the subject material at hand! Or fear the possibility that their idealism could in fact be 'wrong'.


As for ATS selling out.... I am way to new to be making judgment calls and the likes, with that subject matter. Its like handing a new born baby a pad of paper and telling it to write a dissertation on plasma physics. (What?) Maybe in a few years I can answer that question, till then I have alot to learn.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by theability]

Originally posted by bobafett1972
Why was Raso's post edit by Springer?
Why was only ......removed?
Odd, very odd.
Not only that, it makes no sense.

And the doubt said to stop complaining or something and do something about it. Well, speaking up is doing something about it. Other than that, our hands, the members, are tied.

I noticed that also, I read this when it was first on and saw the thing, I wouldnt have even noticed, but it looked weird that a ' mark was left there. Indicating that something indeed was removed. Oh well, it was probably nothing.

admin edit: removed promotion of site non gratis

[edit on 6-26-2008 by Springer]

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Crakeur]