ATS selling out: Membership quantity over quality

reply to post by Rasobasi420

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The site is abovetopsecret not the holygrail.com

and as the banner says

This forum is dedicated to the discussion of historic and contemporary events related to extraterrestrial encounters, UFO sightings, and speculation about related subjects. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of the existence of extraterrestrials and the related conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups. Members who would seek to refute such theories should be mindful of AboveTopSecret.com's tradition of supporting the examination of the "extraterrestrial phenomenon" on the related conspiracy theories, cover-ups, and scandals.

As long as people don't scream abuse or call someone an A hole, I don't
have a problem with that. And overall gives a good impression of what
people actually think about a particular subject. And these views are not
just from Americans but International.

I for one do not make a living out posting messages onto message boards,
albeit I'm sure many do.

. I find that a lot of the moderators on this forum have very biased views. Some act worse than newcomers.

Seven pages with my morning coffee, and interesting reading. Normally, I do the old eye roll when these threads come up, and I did for this one as well. But I often read on in hopes of a jewel or two amongst the dregs. For once I was rewarded with a bonanza.

I have starred and applauded more than once in this thread; more than normal. I've never been known for handing out applause like party favors, so that says a lot. There are some valid points raised and met, and growth should result from that. I like growth, though it's often painful for all concerned.

Rosobasi420, I'll get back to you in a moment.

Donoso, you and I joined at around the same time, yet it seems we have taken divergent paths in our attitude about the value of ATS. Where you sound as if ATS has failed you, I feel the opposit. Perhaps it's the glass half empty or half full problem.

LateApexer313, you have my star. Thanks for keeping the laughter, and the strangely accurate view of ATS, in our minds. We need, IMO, to come here for enjoyment, not to increase our stress, as some appear to do.

loam, you're right, it is the responsibility of members, not staff, to keep the quality high. To "blame" ATS for poor quality, when it is all member generated material that we're about, is like blaming the water because you can't swim.

And last, but certainly not least, back to our OP. You lament the days of yore, but one has to wonder if what you really lament is the innocence you came to ATS with as oppossed to the self you are now. Were you the polished urbane poster then, self confident and fact filled? Go back and read your old posts with a critical eye, you may be surprised. And yet you would have that experience denied others just to satisfy the new and improved you?

And for those few who question the training and intentions of the staff. I can speak for no one but myself, but I assure you I want basically the same thing most of you want; a better ATS. There isn't a training course for moderators, we just police ourselves and each other, the same as members should do. As a matter of fact, I still have no idea how I was even chosen to be asked to take the position, as I'm an outspoken, sometimes harsh, critic of ignorance in all it's forms.

I can also be wrong, make errors, fail to notice, be blind, have shortcomings, make assumptions, have a bad day, and all the other things that we humans are prone to be and do. The only remedy is to pick myself up, dust off, and go forward. I get no compensation for this job other than the self satisfaction that I will leave the world a better place for having gave back.

And if you think there's nasty ignorance and hate on the boards, you should read some of the names I've been called in U2Us. And the ironic thing about being called a low down Natzi ******** is half the time it comes from people complaining about how they see so much hate and ignorance posted in threads.

So maybe, in the final analysis, it's more about what you want from ATS; from yourself. If you come here to learn and grow as a person, and to assist your fellow man in growing, then you stay in the good times and the bad. You assist where you can, and you deny ignorance without denying others, and yourself, the right and chance to grow beyond ignorance.

But if you come here seeking a refuge for just your own brand of tinfoil, then you spend your time seeking converts and complaining that the porridge is too hot or too cold. If your attitude is to sway others, because you already have all the answers, and complaining when they fail to be pursuaded, you're unlikely to grow anything except an ever greater harvest of cynicism.

ATS, like life, gives you back only what you invest, and it gives you back exactly the fruit you plant the most.

Edit because I failed at spelling "porridge" correctly.



[edit on 25-6-2008 by NGC2736]

An old man came home and sat down frustrated and sullen because he just came home from the doctors He just found out that he only had a few more years to live As a young man who grew up next door to this old man walked he noticed his disposition and ask"why are are you so sad and frustrated"The old man without answering said "come with me I'll show you my collection".

The Old man showed him the butterfly collection he amassed his whole life.He rarely showed anyone his collection. The young man looked perplexed at the old man and said"come with me"
and took the old man next door into the backyard and into A green house filled with butterflies fluttering and flying.
They were the most exotic and rare of butterflies the old man has ever seen.

The young man said" Me and my friends have been breeding butterflies and releasing them into the neighborhood since we where young, and we often wonder why some of them would disappear"
"Your welcome to come and enjoy our collection and come to where we release them but please don't kill them and hide them in your collection any more"

The old man spent the rest of his days enjoying his new friends and their butterfly collection and taught them the knowledge that he knows.
the young group of friend taught the old man how to breed butterflies

The butterflies are wisdom,perception and knowledge

I may be the wisest young person on the earth. If I never develop the ability to express it..... my wisdom dies with me.

So teach me....... so you can be more wise and grow



[edit on 25-6-2008 by The Utopian Penguin]

Here is an idea.
Charge sign up fee, something not too low that anyone would join but substantial enough that they would REALLY want to join to cough it up say maybe $10 bucks?

Give the new member 3 months or so to see how they behave, have the mods take a vote and if the 3 month member passes return the $10 bucks back and let them stay, if they get "voted of the island" give them their $10 dollars back and bann them. If they get banned before the 3 month time so be it as long as they get their money back.

just an idea...

Hey just wanted to add that I enjoyed reading some very good posts in this thread. Personally, I tend to avoid new members who post hateful threads.



Hmm, this has been my concern lately in the aliens/ufos forum. Newbies register and their first post is a wild speculative theory...

I had a dream last night and I'm certain it's the truth. A reptilian told me they are from the future and use the greys to help create a hybrid race for when earth is destroyed. Yes destroyed! On 2012 planet X will hit earth and no one will survive.....

You know those type of posts. The ones which belong in skunk works but somehow make a home in the aliens/ufos forum. They tend to garner a lot of popularity and end up on the ATS front page. Not good if you ask me... but that's just my opinion.

reply to post by ObamaMomma

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I use to go to hotmail chat and man was it a zoo..... but what a place to be.
then MSN bought it and then tried to put human modz in there instead of "pitabot" the script that would punt you if you used the wrong word
we fought long hard and won not to have human intervention
then msn brought in human mods and killed it because of the bias they had
and now you need to pay
and very few of the old timers go there because it not a "free" environment any more where anyone can go

how does this translate to here
this is a free environment
and the mods follows and inforce the rules

and to go to being a pay site.... this place would lose what it stands for

many of the old timers here... would pay "now" to be here

but most of them would of never shucked out to join

Newbie here. I am an "oldbie" on other forums on the web. I've observed new members, and they seem to come in waves. The majority seem to assimilate into the group, many finding their own way to contribute positively to the charter of the site. Others, seem to come with an agenda of disruption. I've said for a long time that I dislike seeing someone use a place I enjoy as a playground, but I have to recognize that even those branded as trolls provide a service sometimes, in that they help us to define our boundaries, and what we hold acceptable.

I think ATS gives us a lot of rope to either extend it to others, or to hang ourselves with it if we choose. Just the short time I've been here, I feel that the moderation of this site is far less draconian that others I frequent, and that surprises me a little, given the focal points of this site. I don't think I'd enjoy being a Mod here...... I strive for personal tolerance with others and most of the time I just ignore the threads and few members that I think are intentionally stirring the soup -- that is, not opening a question or statment for debate or examination, but just tossing a metaphorical dead rat into the soup to see who screams.

yah. I suffer from verbosititis. I'm working on that too.

Why was Raso's post edit by Springer?
Odd, very odd.
Not only that, it makes no sense.

And the doubt said to stop complaining or something and do something about it. Well, speaking up is doing something about it. Other than that, our hands, the members, are tied.


admin edit: removed promotion of site non gratis

[edit on 6-26-2008 by Springer]

As one of the recent additions, I can say I've been welcomed. I spend most of my time reading threads as opposed to posting, and I hope that I'll soon have enough posts to enjoy some of the additional benefits of board participation.

I have to agree with those posters in the thread that throw their weight behind freed of speech. I think it's critical that people express themselves honestly on a forum such as this so that the quality posters can be identified and also, so that the complete and total stoopf***s can be identified as well. We need to identify the racists and bigots so we can profile them and treat (ignore?) them accordingly.

i do completely agree at the lack of quality threads and responses we have seen recently.
While I'm fairly new here, ATS is the site i spend the most time on when I get online, and from the short time I've been here, I too have seen this decline.

I'm almost embarrassed now to give away the site info.
I used to recommend the site to lots of people, but now, when most of the home page highlighted topics are crap, it speaks bad of me if i were to mention the site to someone and the first thing they see are crap threads.

While I still love ATS, it take a lot of digging around to find a quality thread.
When you find one, its awesome, but then you also have to read through a lot of crappy posts.

The real problem with having so many people voice their opinions (and a lot of young, inexperienced people imo) is that the posts start to look like youtube posts...
Have you ever tried reading posts on youtube? it sucks, and most of the people have no idea what they are talking about...

Its a new age I suppose, but perhaps it will make me spend my points on the top secret ATS thing, perhaps then I'll find quality threads with quality, experienced members...

reply to post by NGC2736

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best reply to this type of thread I have ever read.

Thanks NGC2736, you really did enlighten me a little. STAR

i agree with you...but i'm mostly a liberal... and i get the feeling i'm in the minority here at ATS. i think a truly balanced person is one that can take the BEST of both sides, and tries to intergrate them into a rational way of living. TRUE capitialism and TRUE socialism both have good attributes to form a stable and reasonable society. it is achieving a balance that this country needs. various degrees of the above have been tried and has led to chaos and death for that particular populace. the world now seems to be devolving into a puedo-kingdom, controlled by the extremely wealthy "kings". unlike past societies, where in ONE country the "king" is overthrown by a desperate and impoverished majority, i fear that the same will happen now, but on a much grander scale. and that is why it appears that alot more people in this world are, putting it mildly, concerned about there own future.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by jimmyx]

[edit on 25-6-2008 by jimmyx]

"Quantity over quality"? I don't think so. It's just as a site grows it becomes more visible to a greater audience and you are going to attract more people. As that happens you are also going to attract more ignorant people as well. Law of averages. We're better than we used to be. I got a trip down memory lane yesterday, a thread that I participated in when I first arrived and thought, "Man, did we ever allow stuff like that?"

Better question is....what was edited other than a reference to another site? Might it be good form for an admin, moderator, or owner to leave some indication of what exactly was altered in a post?

I'm hopeful Springer intended to leave a small note, explaining, "I did this" or, "I did that"....something; but was maybe in a rush and simply overlooked that little courtesy. I think civility demands in the case of an admin edit, the edits are described in detail, or a different font color....something.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by MrPenny]

reply to post by Rasobasi420

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I agree COMPLETELY.

I have seen more and more threads on this subject and have replied to a couple, albeit knowingly in vain.
I was a long-time lurker that finally decided to join and shortly after was when this influx started happening. I have since seen an increase in the type of posts that completely make me lose respect for what this site stands for. Yes, this site is about being able to discuss many things in an open and objective way. Yes, I CAN ignore the posts about topics I care not about and not reply, star or flag. What I can NOT do is believe that they garner so many replies as to make the Home Page, taking up the space that should be given to more worthy topics and subjects relating to THIS WEBSITES NAMESAKE.
This site is called ABOVE TOP SECRET - the initial attracting factor for me, implying a specific subject matter. Does ascention sound like a TOP SECRET topic to you? Does political and racial bashing sound like a TOP SECRET topic to you?
I rest my case and leave the decision to the owners and mods whether to value the input of those that care about this site and it's content, or to risk losing those useres to those who simply use this site for nothing more than what amounts to a soapbox.
I myself will continue to stop by daily to see what, if anything new has been posted in topics relevant to being ABOVE TOP SECRET, but day by day, those posts become fewer and further between, as will my visits here as long as this continues.

(I would like to add that I have the utmost respect for the owners and moderaters of this site. You do an exceptional job. I just wish there could be more of a balance between keeping with the subject matter in relation to this website's namesake, and the content that has been flooding it recently. Such is the conundrum of freedom.)

I am completely a noob, here!!! (as for posting and having an account )

For much I my life I find that those that fear, or have consistant doubts are the ones who label, or take aim despite conclusive data and facts.

Example, which is easier, destruction or preservation? Those with knowledge shouldn't let the seekers of malicious attention take away from the subject matter in thread. But yet again spamming threads continuously by individuals shouldn't be tolerated as well.

The best thing to offer the world is solutions, act the right way and do the right things, offer the truth.

If you find you get ridiculed or tormented here because of that, then maybe as others had stated, those doing the "attacking" or "complaining" cannot digest the subject material at hand! Or fear the possibility that their idealism could in fact be 'wrong'.


As for ATS selling out.... I am way to new to be making judgment calls and the likes, with that subject matter. Its like handing a new born baby a pad of paper and telling it to write a dissertation on plasma physics. (What?) Maybe in a few years I can answer that question, till then I have alot to learn.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by theability]

I noticed that also, I read this when it was first on and saw the thing, I wouldnt have even noticed, but it looked weird that a ' mark was left there. Indicating that something indeed was removed. Oh well, it was probably nothing.

admin edit: removed promotion of site non gratis

[edit on 6-26-2008 by Springer]

[edit on 1-7-2008 by Crakeur]

ADMIN UPDATE

Important new thread inspired by this one:

Yes, We Who Run ATS "Sold Out"

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I'll be closing this thread to divert follow-up discussion to the new one.

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reply to post by MrPenny

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I was busy and forgot to add my "admin edit:" note that indicates I removed the promotion of a site that we don't allow to be linked from here.

I'll add it now. Thanks for the heads up.

As for the topic... All I'll say about it is 3 years ago we had people crying for the good old days, same thing two years ago and last year. Anyone who actually does the research will find the "QUALITY" is MUCH BETTER TODAY than it ever has been. It has to be, the law of averages demands it. Those who focus on the negative will only see the increase in the negative, but there is no denying the positive grows in equal step with the negative.

Also, "ATS" can't "sell out" for quantity over quality, only the MEMBERS can do that by not posting their best.

Springer...