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Originally posted by undo
the wiki quote said Adapa/Adam was a SON of EA, not EA but a son of EA. (EA/OANNES is Enki and also RA)
the idea of Berossus that EA/ENKI/OANNES gave them the Enuma Elish, is interesting since it was supposedly given to them by MARDUK. so is he saying EA is also Marduk? I can almost believe that one, too. i think he was body hopping into rulers, particularly god kings, and marduk fits the bill. it would also lend some credibility to marduk's insistence that he was the one that did the things mentioned in the earlier texts that had been originally credited to EA *but unfortunately, he also tries to take credit for enlil's activities as well. of course, it could be scribal error. by the time of babylon, every god had the god word in their names (EL) or at the very least, in one of their god titles.
"Moreover, Oannes wrote concerning the generation of mankind; of their different ways of life, and of their civil polity; and the following is the purport of what he said,
"There was a time in which there was nothing but darkness and an abyss of waters...
Furthermore it is said that Oannes wrote about deeds and virtues, giving humankind words and wisdom.
 There was a time, he says, when all was dark and water....
christ discovered the vine (he made grapes)? i suppose you could massage it out of a verse relating to christ's antiquity... like, he knew us from the foundation of the world, but erm, where does it say in scripture that he created the vine? are they referring to the miracle of water into wine at the marriage? or are they saying christ created the planet and its flora?
ya know when justin is saying these things, i don't think he realizes that these references are to other sons of the gods. there's several. the confusion seems to be related to the fact that for quite some time, it was believed the genesis 6 nephilim verses were talking simply about the sons of Cain, who was just a man as far as they were concerned.
in this case, CHRIST's claim to fame is that he is the ONLY BEGOTTEN son of GOD. now there were several sons of gods. so what's it mean? it means he was the only human offspring of the god in question. and the god in question appears to be Enlil. the sumerian-akkadian texts however, claim enlil had other kids as well, and this is where the confusion resides. they were not born from human women. they were the offspring of the angels with other angels and the offspring of the gods with other gods, but not the offspring of Enlil with a human woman. at least, that's what the scriptures discussing christ, appear to be saying - that jesus christ was the only man, begotten by god threw a human woman, the virgin mary.
“Moreover God, as Shepherd and King, leads [and rules] with law and justice the nature of the heaven, the periods of sun and moon, the changes and harmonious progressions of the other stars—deputing [for the task] His own Right Reason (Logos), His Firstborn Son, to take charge of the sacred flock, as though he were the Great King’s viceroy.” 1
“For the Father of things that are hath made him rise as His Eldest Son, whom elsewhere He hath called His First-born, and who, when he hath been begotten, imitating the ways of his Sire, and contemplating His archetypal patterns, fashions the species [of things].”
(oh, and isis wasn't a virgin )
"Isis, pure virgin, give me a sign that may let me know the accomplishment, uncover your sacred peplos."
Originally posted by undo
isis was married to osiris, who was alive before he died. ever read the shabaka stone text? horus is already alive.
can you give me the dates those texts were written in? if they are post jesus, i'd be cautious in assuming they were legit, since they are just as likely (if not moreso, since it's after the fact) of making it appear as if it were the correct way to interpret what he said.
The allusion in Proclus to Horus and to the tunic that has not been raised indicates that Isis is being presented as a virgin mother.
The impossibility of raising the peplos of Isis, and the fact that she engendered the sun all by herself, allude to the goddess' virginal character.
It is noteworthy that at this early date women already played a major part in these ceremonies, Isis and Nephthys being portrayed by two virgin priestesses. (p. 54)
Virgo, in Greco-Roman religious usage can also mean any one of the "virgin" goddesses — Demeter, Juno, Isis, Atargatis, Caelestis, and Aphrodite, ...
The publication of Wilhelm Bousset's commentary on the book of Revelation in 1906 was a major event; this book still has not been superseded. For the interpretation of Revelation 12 his major contribution was the investigation of Egyptian mythology, in which he pointed to the figures of Hathor = Isis, the great mother of the gods; Horus, the young sun-god, and the dragon Typhon as parallels to the figures in Revelation 12.
The Lotus (Illustrations No. 47, 48, Plate IV) is a symbol with two meanings. Emblematical of the sun in the ancient days of Egypt and typifying light, understanding, fruitfulness, and plenty, it was believed to bring the favors of the god Ra. Later it is described as "the pure lily of the celestial ocean," the symbol of Isis, who is sometimes alluded to as "the white virgin." It became typical of virginity and purity, and having the double virtue of chastity and fecundity it was alike prized for maiden- and motherhood.
Isis as the Virgin Mother is a familiar idea to students of Egyptology 1; she is κατ᾽ ἐξοχὴν, the “World-Virgin.”
The devotees of Isis, herself called 'the Great Virgin' and 'Mother of the God', naturally tended to look to Mary for comfort when paganism was outlawed...
In a text from the Abydos Temple of Seti I [1302-1290], Isis herself declares: 'I am the great virgin'.
Originally posted by undo
no, i'm not talking about the older texts you've been discussing. i'm talking about later attempts to interpret the older texts. just like with my later interpretation of older texts, they were limited by the available data of the timeframe, and the current views of those who stood the most chance to make a meaningful impact on academia; which, frankly, is one of the points of this thread. alot of what stands today for a genuine interpretation of the ancient texts, are articles/papers/theses/opinion pieces/research papers, written hundreds of years ago, some of which preceeded the advent of archaeology, and many of which refuse to consider any new evidence, make changes to their original theories and hypotheses, based on the evidence, or admit that what appears to be real people, living in real places, doing real things, is not just a metaphor and a myth. you should know by now, i totally disagree with any attempt to suggest the ancients like isis, were not real.
isis was real. she was inanna. inanna was real.
“Accessi confinium mortis; et calcato Proserpinæ limine, per omnia vectus elementa remeavi. Nocte media vidi solem candido coruscantem lumine, deos inferos, et deos superos. Accessi coram, et adoravi de proximo.”
“I approached the confines of death: and having trodden on the threshold of Proserpina returned, having been carried through all the elements. In the depths of midnight I saw the sun glittering with a splendid light, together with the infernal and supernal gods: and to these divinities approaching near, I paid the tribute of devout adoration.”
Originally posted by undo
oh i think i know where you're going with this.
you think she's virgo, doncha?
Behold, Lucius, moved with thy supplications, I am present; I, who am Nature, the parent of things, mistress of all the elements, initial progeny of the ages, the highest of the divinities, queen of departed spirits, the first of the celestials, of gods and goddesses the sole likeness of all: who rule by my nod the luminous heights of the heavens, the salubrious breezes of the sea, and the woful silences of the infernal regions, and whose divinity, in itself but one, is venerated by all the earth, in many characters, various rites, and different appellations.
Hence the primitive Phrygians call me Pessinuntica, the mother of the gods; the Attic Autochthons, Cecropian Minerva; the wave-surrounded Cyprians, Paphian Venus; the arrow-bearing Cretans, Dictynnian Diana; the three-tongued Sicilians, Stygian Proserpina; and the inhabitants of Eleusis, the ancient goddess Ceres. Some, again, have invoked me as Juno, others as Bellona, others as Hecaté, and others as Rhamnusia; and those who are enlightened by the emerging rays of the rising sun, the Æthiopians, and Aryans, and likewise the Ægyptians powerful in ancient learning, who reverence my divinity with ceremonies perfectly proper, call me by my true appellation Queen Isis.
LIII. 1. For Isis is the feminine [principle] of Nature and that which is capable of receiving the whole of genesis; in virtue of which she has been called “Nurse” and “All-receiving” by Plato, 1 and, by the multitude, “She of ten-thousand names,” through her being transformed by Reason (Logos) and receiving all forms and ideas [or shapes].
2. And she hath an innate love of the First and Most Holy of all things (which is identical with the Good), and longs after and pursues it. But she flees from and repels the domain of the Bad, and though she is the field and matter of them both, yet doth she ever incline to the Better of herself, and offers [herself] for him to beget and sow into herself emanations and likenesses, with which she joys and delights that she is pregnant and big with their generations.
Originally posted by kshaund
You two are amazing with your research and resources you quote from!
Possibilities however, is that the first assumption is wrong, therefore making all subsequent assumptions based on an error - and I still suggest Isis is not a real person, but symbolic of the Orions and its omnipotent control over all that is in this universe.
"Lo, he has come as Orion. Lo, Osiris has come as Orion" (Pyr. 819c). The near-by dog star, Sothis, is Isis.
But the priests say that not only of these Gods, but also of all the other gods also who are not ingenerable and indestructible, the bodies lie buried with them when they 1 have done their work, and have service rendered them, while their souls shine in heaven as stars; and that [of the former] the [soul] of Isis is called Dog by the Greeks, but Sōthis by the Egyptians, while the [soul] of Horus [is called] Ōriōn, 1 and Typhon’s Bear.
In the so-called "Pyramid Texts", in his own tomb and that of Teta, the first king of the Sixth Dynasty, the monarch was deified as a star god, and has been identified with the constellation of Orion.
I don't recall in any myths mentioning who Isis' parents were? Or Osiris? I still believe they are symbolic of the Orions and Sirians. If you presume Isis is a real person, and it turns out its a metaphor, what does that do to all subsequent conclusions?
"I am a child of Earth and starry Heaven, but my race is of heaven alone." The soul came from heaven—from the realm of the gods/stars—down to earth for its exile; that is the sense in which it is child of both earth and starry heaven; but since he sees himself as having originated in heaven beore the fall to earth, he declares heaven his true place, as does Ani [in the Book of the Dead], saying, "I am one of you," meaning the heavenly beings.
"...the central crucial process of king-making involved the candidate travelling to the stars to be admitted a member of the society of gods and there to be made the Horus, possibly being crowned by the dead king-the new Osiris. At some point in the events of the night the old king and the new king journied to the constellation of Orion together, one to remain in his celestial home and one to return to rule the land of men." (110)
Some hold that the origin of this motif is the Sumerian myth in which the goddess Ninhursag created a beautiful garden full of lush vegetation and fruit trees, called Edinu, in Dilmun, the Sumerian earthly Paradise, a place which the Sumerians believed to exist to the east of their own land, beyond the sea. Ninhursag charged Enki, her lover and husband, with controlling the wild animals and tending the garden, but Enki became curious about the garden and his assistant, Adapa, selected seven plants and offered them to Enki, who ate them. (In other versions of the story he seduced in turn seven generations of the offspring of his divine marriage with Ninhursag). This enraged Ninhursag, and she caused Enki to fall ill. Enki felt pain in his rib, which is a pun in Sumerian, as the word "ti" means both "rib" and "life". The other gods persuaded Ninhursag to relent. Ninhursag then created a new goddess named Ninti, (a name made up of "Nin", or "lady", plus "ti", and which can be translated as both Lady of Living and Lady of the Rib), to cure Enki. Ninhursag is known as mother of all living creatures, and thus holds the same position in the story as does Eve. The story has a clear parallel with Eve's creation from Adam's rib, but given that the pun with rib is present only in Sumerian, linguistic criticism places the Sumerian account as the more ancient.