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Online bandwidth hogs to be cut off at trough?

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posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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OK, so if I decide to dnld movies legaly I could end up being dinged not only from the movie but for overusage every month. Sure puts Netfliks in a hard place. They are busy trying to sell this concept instead of sending CD's thrpugh the mail. An HD movie will be very costly!

Zindo

[edit on 6/23/2008 by ZindoDoone]




posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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Here's a little insider info on this subject as I deal with it every day as a technician for an ISP-

Providers CANNOT supply the full rate to you 24/7. It is technically impossible for them to guarantee those rates on a continuous basis to each and every customer.

Most rates of 3 - 6mbps are sustainable in most residential accounts for 10 - 20 seconds, and then the data rate will drop considerably down to 50 - 256 kbps- which most ISP's would call their CIR, or 'committed information rate'. You are purchasing a "Shared" internet connection where your data flow is metered and adjusted along with all the other accounts.

Dedicated data connections are MUCH more expensive than the paltry $50 a month. Most T-1 (copper phone lines) connections for a 1.5mbps constant rate go for about $400 - 900/mo depending on your location. Get one of this puppies and you'll be downloading non-stop at 1.5mbps all day/night. A T-1 can support around 50 - 100 normal internet users,

OR-

ONE YAHOO WHO THINKS IT'S OK TO USE UP ALL THE SHARED BANDWIDTH DOWNLOADING PIRATED SOFTWARE AND VIDEOS GIGABITS IN SIZE AND THEN THEY WONDER WHY PEOPLE GET PISSED OFF.

Greed is a fashionable thing in America. How pathetic is that?



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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reply to post by dhardeman
 


Hmm, you have some info wrong there chap.



Providers CANNOT supply the full rate to you 24/7. It is technically impossible for them to guarantee those rates on a continuous basis to each and every customer.


It's not technically impossible, it just isn't good business to guarantee something you might not be able to fulfill. Your right in that residential connection's share the access route into the core network, hence why there is something called a contention ratio.

In the UK, for the average ADSL user (not DSL as that is a dedicate full duplex connection which would cost you a small fortune. Most people seem duped into saying DSL instead of ADSL) the contention ratio is somewhere between 1/30-1/50, meaning your sharing the backbone connection with 30 other users (or 50).

If no-one else is online, or usage is light, there is no reason why you won't get the full speed you ISP says they can provide. If everyone in your area with the same ISP is online, then yes, you will get a lower data rate.



Dedicated data connections are MUCH more expensive than the paltry $50 a month. Most T-1 (copper phone lines) connections for a 1.5mbps constant rate go for about $400 - 900/mo depending on your location. Get one of this puppies and you'll be downloading non-stop at 1.5mbps all day/night. A T-1 can support around 50 - 100 normal internet users,


With the above statement, you can tell your a fluffy cloud IP engineer and not a network engineer
.

A T-1 line is the basic transmission unit used in SONET networks used in the USA and Asia (SDH in Europe). Your correct in saying it is 1.55Mb/s, however it doesn't have to be a copper line, it can be fibre too. In fact, it can even be radio, it doesn't matter. It is merely the method that data is framed and then prepared for transmission across the network.

A T-1 frame can support 1.55Mb/s of traffic. T-1's are then multiplexed up into higher order transmission frames (called OC-3 in SONET or STM-1 in SDH) for carriage across the core network. I know T-1 has become synonymous in common usage with a dedicated line, but it's origin is in the world of transmission, where the real networking takes place, not the fluffy cloud of IP land.

You cannot quantify how many users it would allow as that depends on contention and the speed the ISP is offering.

However, I would be VERY surprised though if ISP's where bundling consumers down a T-1. That isn't even the same speed as some of the slowest connections available. A T-1 is really only used for a dedicated connection. Your really showing the fact your an IP bod and not a real network engineer.

In the UK, for example, ADSL customer's will be connected to the exchange via their copper line. The quality and distance of which determines the maximum speed they can have.

Once at the exchange, all the consumer lines are fed into a DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexor) which will then package all the users connections into a single STM-1 frame, which is 140Mb/s. These, in turn, will then be multiplexed up into higher order STM frames for transmission across the network.

Anyhoo, lesson over. As for the subject matter, it isn't anything new for the rest of the world, it just means you buy a certain package giving you a certain speed and monthly limit. I pay £40/month for ~6Mb/s ADSL with 75GB usage. With Virgin media, you can get 20Mb/s and unlimited usage, mainly due to the capacity of their network compared to the over subscribed PSTN.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by dhardeman
... Greed is a fashionable thing in America. How pathetic is that?


Yes, it is, isn't it? Only whose greed are we talking about? The greed of a company that says and advertises "unlimited" bandwidth, or those that actually believe what the company says? After all, phone companies have offered UNLIMITED bandwidth for about 100 years now (in the voice service, that is).

Or, the greed of advertising "6 Mbps download speeds!" to get people to buy it, only to "limit the bandwidth to 256k per second"? That even brings up the debate of what Mbps means, which I see you haven't touched. Most people thinks that means 6 megaBYTES per second (and the industry has done nothing to fix that misperception). It doesn't. It means 6 megaBITS per second. A difference of a factor of 8.

Take your advertised internet speeds, and divide by 8. Now, multiply that by .70 (30% overhead for IP traffic, checksums, etc.) and that will give you your true speed in megaBYTES when you are downloading.

Also, how about the fact that they don't tell you about their limited UPLOAD speeds? Or the fact that they don't educate their customers on how this affects their DOWNLOAD speed?

Now, what ISPs don't tell you with DSL and Cable is that they are ASYMMETRICAL. This means that uploads and downloads are not the same. Imagine two pipes (or internet "tubes" if you want to make fun of a certain Senator), one inside the other. The biggest pipe is 12 inches across. This is your download speeds. The other is 3 inches across, and inside the first pipe. It is the upload tube. In almost EVERY internet communication, information has to flow both ways. For every X amount of packets sent out, the sender has to receive a packet acknowledging it. Think of it like this: Your friend is telling you directions over the phone, and every once in a while, you have to say "Uh-huh" or "Got it." Same concept. When that little 3" pipe gets full (i.e., when you are using it's maximum bandwidth to upload things) YOU CANNOT USE ANY OF THE 12" DOWNLOAD PIPE.

Uploads are generally limited to 256Kbps, or about twice that of an ISDN line. In some places, it can get up to 756Kbps. This is why you can fiddle with the registry (in Windows machines) to get even faster download speeds. You tell your machine to reply only after 10 or 20 or 30 packets, instead of after only 4 or 5 (those are just made up numbers. While I used to know the real numbers, I have long since forgotten them.
)

My point is this: All of this contributes to the greed of corporations to allow "unlimited" internet access, when in reality it isn't "unlimited" at all. AND THEY KNOW THIS AND COUNT ON PEOPLE'S IGNORANCE for their own greed.

So don't tell me it's "people" being greedy. It's people expecting to get what the company has advertised, and what they have bought.

In my opinion, if there isn't two LOCALLY OWNED high speed internet companies from which you can buy your bandwidth, it ought to be treated as a public utility, and regulated accordingly.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 12:52 PM
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Comcast is already doing this for users who dl more than 400 gigs a month. They call and you ask you to reduce your usage if you don't they will cut your service. They have also stopped advertising "Unlimited"

Peace Trustnobody



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 12:59 PM
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I work in IT and need an extremely fast internet connection at home (at least that's what I tell the people in my accounting department when they ask why they're paying $70 a month for my internet connection). I'm rocking a 20 down, 5 up limit right now. I'm using Verizon FiOS and I can only see this as a way for Verizon to start raking it in.

Imagine all of Comcast and Time-Warner's customers going to Verizon just so they can continue their standard browsing practices. And if FiOS isn't in your area yet, this is all the more reason for Verizon to start laying those conduits.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 01:25 PM
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An ISP I used tried to meter their top tier, my self and a LOT of people promptly reduced our service tier to the lower rate that was "unlimited" and then downloaded non stop


They promptly removed their metering as they where losting more money.

Vote with your wallet. It is that simple.

Don't moan and bitch and then pay for it, that is just stupid. Just don't pay them.

Nobody is forcing you to pay them, you can live without the internet. You can live without the crappy movies and music. It is just propaganda anyway.

[edit on 23-6-2008 by mOOmOO]



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 01:37 PM
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Gee, you guys have it bad.

Cox Cable assured me my internet services in Florida are not changing, but rather, they intend to increase bandwidth usage for premium customers.

I mean, Im only running at 24 MBPS with 500KBPS+ of upload to nearer cities (within 800 miles of me) with an international connection average of 8MBPS-16MBPS.

I guess the rest of the internet will be affected by these limits and not me, awe, shame


/end /b/ness


I do dislike the whole limit idea though...



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 04:09 PM
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This will not happen as long as people are willing to invest in faster glas fibre lines for home use, in Sweden for example it's quite normal to have 100MBit at home.

The big traffic outbound and inbound in countries is mostly handled by external companies, hired by isps.

I would never accept any crap like that with my average of 5 TB traffic a year.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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LOL- aside from fiber-optic connections which have an EXTREMELY LOW density of connections per total internet users in the US, DSL and cable or satellite or wireless- NONE can 'technically' cover the bandwidth needs if every customer was to pull the 'up to' speed they were sold at.

Read the fine print you signed instead of getting angry at me or your ISP or whoever. Nothing is being hidden here, and companies have a right to change their business model regardless of how much you want to whine about it.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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I wonder if this is why my internet has been really slow as of late, Either that or something is going down at the facility. Either way I can figure that a lot of people (who do a lot of gaming) might be a Bit ticked off when they get on next time after there up and downloads have been changed.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by dhardeman
 


Hmm, you have some info wrong there chap.



Providers CANNOT supply the full rate to you 24/7. It is technically impossible for them to guarantee those rates on a continuous basis to each and every customer.


It's not technically impossible, it just isn't good business to guarantee something you might not be able to fulfill. Your right in that residential connection's share the access route into the core network, hence why there is something called a contention ratio.

In the UK, for the average ADSL user (not DSL as that is a dedicate full duplex connection which would cost you a small fortune. Most people seem duped into saying DSL instead of ADSL) the contention ratio is somewhere between 1/30-1/50, meaning your sharing the backbone connection with 30 other users (or 50).

If no-one else is online, or usage is light, there is no reason why you won't get the full speed you ISP says they can provide. If everyone in your area with the same ISP is online, then yes, you will get a lower data rate.



Dedicated data connections are MUCH more expensive than the paltry $50 a month. Most T-1 (copper phone lines) connections for a 1.5mbps constant rate go for about $400 - 900/mo depending on your location. Get one of this puppies and you'll be downloading non-stop at 1.5mbps all day/night. A T-1 can support around 50 - 100 normal internet users,


With the above statement, you can tell your a fluffy cloud IP engineer and not a network engineer
.

A T-1 line is the basic transmission unit used in SONET networks used in the USA and Asia (SDH in Europe). Your correct in saying it is 1.55Mb/s, however it doesn't have to be a copper line, it can be fibre too. In fact, it can even be radio, it doesn't matter. It is merely the method that data is framed and then prepared for transmission across the network.

A T-1 frame can support 1.55Mb/s of traffic. T-1's are then multiplexed up into higher order transmission frames (called OC-3 in SONET or STM-1 in SDH) for carriage across the core network. I know T-1 has become synonymous in common usage with a dedicated line, but it's origin is in the world of transmission, where the real networking takes place, not the fluffy cloud of IP land.

You cannot quantify how many users it would allow as that depends on contention and the speed the ISP is offering.

However, I would be VERY surprised though if ISP's where bundling consumers down a T-1. That isn't even the same speed as some of the slowest connections available. A T-1 is really only used for a dedicated connection. Your really showing the fact your an IP bod and not a real network engineer.

In the UK, for example, ADSL customer's will be connected to the exchange via their copper line. The quality and distance of which determines the maximum speed they can have.

Once at the exchange, all the consumer lines are fed into a DSLAM (Digital Subscriber Line Access Multiplexor) which will then package all the users connections into a single STM-1 frame, which is 140Mb/s. These, in turn, will then be multiplexed up into higher order STM frames for transmission across the network.

Anyhoo, lesson over. As for the subject matter, it isn't anything new for the rest of the world, it just means you buy a certain package giving you a certain speed and monthly limit. I pay £40/month for ~6Mb/s ADSL with 75GB usage. With Virgin media, you can get 20Mb/s and unlimited usage, mainly due to the capacity of their network compared to the over subscribed PSTN.


Isn't it funny how these techie guys always have to thrust their techie knowledge chest out whenever you just want to throw some information out for the general public to understand? Excuse me while I rest here on my little fluffy cloud and avoid the tyrannical spit.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 04:41 PM
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At least the energy companies, like Enron, did not succeed in controlling the internet bandwidth market. Imagine what pricing might be if they had.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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Well, with Skype and more and more companies jumping on the 'free internet phone', wouldn't this also tend to consume bandwidth?



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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I believe the plan is also to slowly take communications technology back to the late 80's. No more youtube expose videos that undermines the government, corporations, secret societies, etc. Who will be able to download any more videos of important information that some people would rather keep secret if it takes 3 hours to download an basic video? Cue the flood of disinfo videos. It will be hard to sort through the garbage videos if it takes way too much time to download a clip.

When the internet is basically unpopular through design (similar to destruction through design), they will pull the plug, citing loss of customers, money, infrastructure, etc.

Perhaps the internet will become even more private and controlled, meaning what you post or upload has to be approved first by its server masters.

Say good bye to free public internet, sheeple.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 05:31 PM
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Arrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhh!!!

What a sick hing to do, these no good lousy greedy Animals!

What the heck, my cities wired for fiber 100x current cable speeds I could blow past those limits in an hr when it's available which is soon...

My whole career is based on video on demand, this isn't about more money... it's pressure to keep TV and Cable Televison in business because the monopoly on data is about to end...

Conspiracies? HD TV plus fiber means anyone can be Fox... (literally given the quality)


This is something to worry about computers get faster everyday the new lines can process any amount of traffic...

You know what this involves? Greed and Control, Control to slow down a revolution and greed to assure that We all pay for the better fiber lines around the country... as If, as If they wouldn't make the investment back.

Why should we pay to build the next level of technology and then pay for the next level of technology monthly too,

this is Madness!

This is Not User Friendly!

These guys stink, then when we pay to lay all the fiber they will keep, what will amount to abysmally low bandwidth as the cap before you pay out the kazoo for all the cool things much faster lines will allow...

Like the dang Virtual reality stuff and media work I have slaved over and counted on in all my business plans for the last 7 years of my miserable life...

This is why I named myself Mopus Vindictus... which means Vindictive Mope, because I can't stand so many nit wits and retards

Where is a well? a big one... I'll give them Earth and water and half my paycheck...

ooooooooo i'm steamed




[edit on 23-6-2008 by mopusvindictus]

[edit on 23-6-2008 by mopusvindictus]



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 07:18 PM
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reply to post by TheComte
 

More than likely you would be still attached to one of the main ISP providers, either cable or telemaphone. Here in Ontario, Bell leases the lines to other ISPs, and shapes the traffic just the same. It is their network, afterall.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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This whole idea goes against the way in which the Internet is developing. Legal music, legal movies, online gaming, all take up large chunks of bandwidth - especially if you're a family with maybe one or two kids. It's stupidity.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 08:03 PM
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I think they are trying to further cashin on net flix movied downloads, googlevideo, vonage, magicjack and all the rest of broadband induced cash cows.



posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by C0bzz
 


Wow that's expensive, I pay $70 month ADSL2+ 40GB and i max that out in under a month. I currently get 7mbp/s with my phone line, because my phone line went all crappy after Telstra fixed it after a storm. Was peaking out at like 1.5MBp/s those were the days.

Currently I've used 31GB, 20GB uploaded and 7.7GB internal with 10 days left. So I'm classed as a heavy internet user. Thank god for private FTP/BT sites.


[edit on 23-6-2008 by PhorumThroll]




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