SitX and the one thing everybody will be looking for.

Ammo.

Lost of it.

Heres my situation.
Say if suddenly for what ever reason the goverment ceases all ammunition production for civilian use. What calibers would be the first to go? Specifically what would be the availability of .223? This trouble me because it really can happen. Any thoughts?

Not that it would affect me, being in a 'gun free country' but i would say that it would be best for you to start equiping yourself to be able to reload cartridges and making your own ammo.

reply to post by Wotan
I have enough ammo stockpiled for a couple of weeks of sustained fighting, somewhere along the line before I run out I will procure more

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by Wotan

 

I have enough ammo stockpiled for a couple of weeks of sustained fighting, somewhere along the line before I run out I will procure more

Or be dead for someone to collect up your un-used cartridges.

It happens.

Wotan said it before me: reload your own ammo.

A reloader bench is pretty quick and easy to set up, and I believe should be a part of any well-stocked workshop. Gunpowder is not extremely expensive and easy to store, just keep it dry (and non-burning ). Lead can be purchased in a myriad of forms, and I am seriously considering buying a few ingots to have on hand. It melts pretty easily and you can get bullet molds cheaply as well.

If you run out of gunpowder, the formula isn't all that hard. You might need to work a bit with the exact ratios of the ingredients, but that's overcomable. The only thing I know of that could not be somehow manufactured at home in a pinch would be the primers, and those are so cheap they can be stockpiled and stored along with the gunpowder.

Now if you're getting ready to fend off the Russian Military, just go ahead and surrender in advance, because ammo will become scarce and you simply can't stockpile enough to play Rambo for very long. But if you (like me) see guns as a tool to be used to survive, then set yourself a stocked reloading bench.

Oh, and remember that there are weapons that do not need ammunition. Arrows can be made out of straight sticks and feathers, and are as dangerous as any gun in the right hands.

So are throwing spears.

TheRedneck

personally i dont see why one would want enough ammo to sustain a firefight for a few weeks. Me? i would get the hell out of there if shootin' started on the streets.

sure some ammo for your defense weapon, but that in its self should be a hand gun at least, perhapses a carbine SMG or a PDW or similar. besides, stocks of useless ammo just take up time and space.

as was previously stated, get to grips with some bows and learn their ways, they will be more rewarding in the long run since they can be used to hunt as well as to drop the fellow that comes to close, without alerting the whole neighborhood in the process.

7.62x39mm would be a good way to go because the soviets made so much of it that it is very plentiful.

Best advice: Stick with NATO calibers for availability and stay away from the U.S. only calibers such as .357 Sig, .45 GAP, and rounds of that nature.

Another problem to think about with reloading is the case itself. I beleive that life of a case is about 12 reloads right? I dont know honestly, but that is a problem to think about.

Also, Investing in a muzzle loader. It would be my ideal post sitX weapon. It would take away a huge burden of rounds. If you are in survival mode you probobly will be taking well aimed shots at whatever you are shooting, releaving you of needs to take multiple shots, (i think bird hunters are the only ones that fire multiple shots at game). So you can cast the bullets out of soft metal, mix gun powder or use other potential propelents (ala potatoe gun). Very few moving parts. and less likely to have someone try and take it from you.

reply to post by 420prajna


What about 5.56 NATO?

reply to post by slackerwire

Just what I wanted to hear.


To funny_pom: I would get out too, But I rather have something that I could just aim and kill and also I'm not that good with bows but Ill take your word for it.

My advice would be to try and never use more than one bullet in any given confrontation, and if possible not at all.

Naturally, this means having a dead-aim, and the intelligence to know what to shoot at.

All that ammo is just going to weigh you down, especially if you've got a steady aim in the first place.

The NATO rounds would probably be the safest to rely on. The 5.56, and 7.62 in particular are widly used and widly produced. It will be near impossible for any government to stop the spread of for example 7.62 ammo. Not hard to imagine that those rounds would be the first they would try to make unavaliable, but there are numerous ways to make sure you will have avaliable ammo in such a scenario.

The best advice, as mentioned earlier, is to learn how to reload yourself. Lead is easy to work with, and both lead and gunpowder should be easy to come by. In extreme need you can even make gunpowder yourself, but trying that without the necessary experience or at least knowledge is usually stupid. I have a big problem with the whole notion of stocking ammo in preperation for combat though. Self defence in extreme situations is one thing, but prolonged combat (or any situation where weapons may be used in hostility) should be avoided for civilians. Especially those who are trying to survive a crisis.

It's one thing to ensure your right to defend yourself and ensure ammo for your rifle for hunting (example), but if the government seeks to avoid the spread of ammunition and weapons during a crisis, it is probably with good reason. In my opinion the civilian population should strive to work WITH the government and any law enforcement/military presence, unless of course the government or the military are being hostile against their own civilian population. It doesnt matter much that you are prepeared and able to take care of yourself if you contribute to destabilizing society during a crisis. Depending on the situation I would bring my long range/hunting rifle with me to most bugout/fortification situations during sitx, and I would ensure I was stocked on ammo, probably even in spite of an attempt at stopping the spread of sharp ammo amongst civilians, but the concept of stocking ammo illegaly for combat during a crisis is not something I can endorse in any but the most extreme circumstances.

I would characterize a situation where your own government becomes hostile and a potential enemy as very extreme, and allthough possible and something you should prepeare for, not highly probable (depending on where you live naturally) in most scenarios. Most intelligent people would soon enough realize when to stop trusting their government and stop following it's rules. But the minute you oppose the representatives of the collective and those who defend your nation, you are setting society up on the road to highly chaotic states.

There are of course degrees of defiance against state and government, hence why I differantiate between ensuring you have ammo for hunting and small scale self defence and stockpiling ammo for all out combat. I agree to not letting yourself be pacified and domesticated, but opposing the governing powers and/or the military during a national or international crisis is seriously counter-productive, dangerous and in some cases damned senseless.

The potential for very extreme situations exist. Which is why I gave my opinion on the original topic of the thread in the first place. Ammo is useful, very useful, and the we will all benefit a lot from figuring out how to ensure the avaliability of it. In my opinion though, any particepation in large scale exchange of fire should be far removed from any survivalist efforts during a crisis.

A handful of scenarios where that could be endorsed comes to mind. The invasion of my own nation (Norway) by Nazi Germany in 1940 saw many civilians turn saboteurs and guerilla fighters mainly during the first weeks, but also lasting all the way through to our liberation in 1945. None of it was based in any defience against the Norwegian government though, and a lot of it was joint defence effort with for example Polish and British forces. A situation where the government is gone and there is no central organization of armed forces may also call for the protection of organized communities.

For those who are concerned about wnat type of ammo will be available, the answer is: military ammo that fits military weapons. Should the crisis become a military confrontation, the best bet would be to simply take firearms/ammo off the bodies of soldiers. You never have to worry about not having the right type ammo.

It appears to me we are having two discussions here, those who want to fight a war and those who want to survive. I am more survivalist, but should it be necessary, I would become a guerrilla-type fighter. In that situation, with replenishment of ammo being simply a matter of targeting individual soldiers, I see no reason to weigh myself down with ammo. The human body is very fragile and easy to break.

reply to post by me_ofef_seraph

It's one thing to ensure your right to defend yourself and ensure ammo for your rifle for hunting (example), but if the government seeks to avoid the spread of ammunition and weapons during a crisis, it is probably with good reason. In my opinion the civilian population should strive to work WITH the government and any law enforcement/military presence, unless of course the government or the military are being hostile against their own civilian population.

Cooperation with the authorities here can and has led to any number of undesirable outcomes for others who have tried it. For the most part, the US government is already being hostile to its citizens. Apparently this is not the case in Norway. Ummm, need a neighbor?

TheRedneck

Cooperation with the authorities here can and has led to any number of undesirable outcomes for others who have tried it. For the most part, the US government is already being hostile to its citizens. Apparently this is not the case in Norway. Ummm, need a neighbor?

TheRedneck

Indeed. I realize that. I will leave it up to the citizens of each nation to figure out how to relate to their own government. Which is why I stated that it all depends on where you live. I have some knowledge about the US and it's institutions and governing organs, but my experience with it is non-existant. Judging by stories there may be truth to what you say, yes. I am not entierly sure the US government is hostile against it's people, but there seems to be a tendancy leading the nation on a course away from securing a good democratic society with collective and individual freedom for it's people in the US. That is an entierly different discussion though.

Norway is not Utopia, allthough that has been reported by US media in the past :p. But in my opinion we have one of the least authoritarian governments on the planet. We have a well developed democracy, exellent living conditions and a very healthy both social and free market economy. Allthough there are rotten apples, our government, law enforcement and military have a long history of being there to support, help and defend the people of Norway (and those of other nations), and is never precieved as a threat. So, yes, I very much trust my government.

Hehe, sensible neighbors are always welcome. New countrymen are usually treated very well here, as long as they behave In all seriousness it is a country I love and would reccomend for anyone to travel to, be it a short or longer visit. 4 seasons, high income (tripple the US price on any and all products :p), and fjords.

I want to stress again though, that I can only speak for myself and in relation to my own nation, but as a rule I would still be partial to endorsing the idea of working against the efforts of those who govern during a crisis. But of course... stocking up on ammo despite a ban is not exactly the worst offence depening on what you use the ammo for. I do in essence agree to making sure you are self sufficient and able to combat any potential attempt from a government to pacify you.. I'm just careful with what sort of behavior I endorse.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by me_ofef_seraph]

I know one thing that anyone in Norway could be looking for.. My Boomerang..
Apparently it's not very good for fishing purposes..

Boy,how much easier would it be if they just let us have guns in the UK.

Originally posted by AGENT_T
I know one thing that anyone in Norway could be looking for.. My Boomerang..
Apparently it's not very good for fishing purposes..

Boy,how much easier would it be if they just let us have guns in the UK.

en.wikipedia.org... :p I think they have them in the UK.

And as far as I know, it's not too hard to get at least bolt action rifles for civilians in the UK?

[edit on 26-6-2008 by me_ofef_seraph]

I'd go for the most available types of ammo in your area. .22's are probably plentiful, almost any small store or large chain store carries 30-30's or 30.06 ammo. For handguns 9mm is plentiful as well as .45's and .38's.

If you think you will be able to reclaim some miltiary type ammo, I'd go 7.62x39 or 5.56's. For scaring off unwanted visitors a .22 will do the job well enough.

.22's don't have a lot of knockdown power, but they hurt like a b-tch, and a few well-placed shots will kill someone just as well as like a larger calibre bullet will. Remember, nobody wants to be shot even if it's by a BB gun if they can avoid it!

[edit on 6/26/08 by LLoyd45]

You should not count on getting ammo from dead soldiers, armies are pretty good at picking that stuff up or destroying it... mostly because they think like that too.

You should not count on getting ammo from dead soldiers, armies are pretty good at picking that stuff up or destroying it... mostly because they think like that too.