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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Hate to tell you, but evolution is fact. The controversy in the scientific community is its SCALE, not whether it happens or not.
One theory says it happens quickly, every now and then, while another says it happens slowly and constantly over time. And don't give me any of that "evolution is a theory" crap, as basically everything in science is theory. And creationism and ID are classed as mythology at best, and honestly, I'd rather have a theory taught to my children as fact than a myth.
Originally posted by JPhish
unless your going to make an ats account, please don't voice your haughty personal opinions. Especially since they are logically unsound.
Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Nope i sighed heavily because you missed what i was saying, creation does not have any evidence to support itself. All of the evidence is debunked by scientists and when all these flaws are pointed out the creationists just say "Well it's true because god exists".
Because i say it, no. Because in schools facts are supposed to be taught, theories based on facts, not a very old book, written by men, without any evidentiary support.
The point of this thread was to say it's unfair teaching creationism when it's not based on any firm evidence. Even if god existed then god seems to have setup evolution. So even if we accept god as a fact right this second, then we'd still have to teach evolution rather than creation.
If god exists then god set up evolution, it's the best way for it to be done, makes perfect sense god wouldn't want to be hanging around making everything all day. Like when humans set up virtual environments, we tend to make them so that they can regulate themselves without interference.
No sorry, whilst you should have the right to teach your children whatever you decide to, why do you need to drag it into schools? Schools should be places where facts are learnt, not places to indoctrinate youngsters into religion. I don't see why you have such a big issue with keeping it out of school and teaching your children on your own time.
would want religion forced on youngsters in schools where they should be learning things we can verify. No one forces evolution on children, they are sat in a class, presented facts which can be backed up by evidence and then they choose to accept the facts or ignore them.
Creationists have no facts that are true, they have things they claim are true but unravel under scrutiny. Like saying that the eye is proof of creation because it's so complex, well i'm sorry but that isn't proof, that's just an opinion. However they present that as a fact and that is why creationism is unfair to teach to children, presenting them with lies isn't right.
Ahh the classic creation arguement, it cannot be proven, yo ucannot prove god exists and so it should not be taught as a science.
Creationism is hollow, lots of fancy words, false arguments and once you wade through it, it comes down to belief in a god. Therefore it's not a science and should not be taught in science classes.
to teach to children, presenting them with lies isn't right.
I am quick to throw out anything that doesn't have evidence to support it. You are quick to believe a book which was written and edited by men. Nice to know the religious leaders were able to edit the word of god huh
I am not asking for evolution to be forced on children, i am asking that because evolution is fact based, that it be taught in schools. I am asking that creation isn't taught until they can provide proof of their claims. If all it takes is something that cannot be disproven, then i want it taught in schools about my hypothesis that theres a planet made of candyfloss. You cannot prove me wrong so i want it taught! How dare you force the ignorant idea on children that my candfloss world doesn't exist!
Originally posted by JPhish
Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
Hate to tell you, but evolution is fact. The controversy in the scientific community is its SCALE, not whether it happens or not.
One theory says it happens quickly, every now and then, while another says it happens slowly and constantly over time. And don't give me any of that "evolution is a theory" crap, as basically everything in science is theory. And creationism and ID are classed as mythology at best, and honestly, I'd rather have a theory taught to my children as fact than a myth.
unless your going to make an ats account, please don't voice your haughty personal opinions. Especially since they are logically unsound.
Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
the part where he claimed to know a truth.
Originally posted by Conspiriology
Oh sure it does IR, and THAT is why evolutionists don't want the competition but more than that, ATHEISTS don't want anyone else believing in God,
Well if it is religion, what religion is creationism? The Bible talks a pretty good game about this and contrary to what Atheists say, that book gets more impressive as time goes. We read it BECAUSE of its ancient texts not in spite of them. They happen to be correct about so many things Science is just now starting to admit.
Yet that is exactly what you are getting with Darwinian Atheism, a religion wrapped in the guise of a Science the same way creationism used to be taught. You wouldn't have a problem with Religions wanting evolution out of schools if they knew Atheism was not behind it, but they do know it and Atheism IS behind it and have admitted they are using evolution to advance Atheism. Christians see this for what it is and the threat of a two or three godless generations changing the moral fabric of America is happening before our eyes everyday.
No, you are wrong and insisting that evolution is the way God did it is no consolation to creationists because evolution isn't the way it was done and the fossil record proves it. We don't show signs of a common ancestor we show signs of a common designer and that is OBVIOUS but it isn't to them. So you see how evidence works or is in the eye of the beholder.
Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by Conspiriology
You think JPhish berating someone for not having an account is a cnstructive arguement? It seems you just love anyone who dislikes evolution, a very narrow minded approach. I will be back to reply to your very long post, sadly i havn't got the energy at the moment. I will be back though, tis a promise.
Originally posted by Cyprus
Also, you claim that creationists never provided hoaxes or other lies pushing forward creationism. Unlike you i will provide evidence to prove that wrong.
Well let me introduce you to one right here. LOL i hate to bring him up but He cracks me up every time I read his stuff, its just so full or garbage.
(don't hit me for bringing him up )
There are always gonna be people that are frauds and scam artists but notice some of those "hoaxes" you pointed out haven't been used in decades because they are known hoaxes. Darwin btw wasn't a hoax, and i would love to see some links or be directed to some where that can prove that wrong.
Also have you studied anthropolgy or paleontology to say that what your are seeing in the animals of today are the same as those that are present in millions of old fossils? I highly doubt it. There are differences between them, its not just a simple "thats a chimp fossil force to look like a small version of a human to support atheists beliefs".
Originally posted by azblack
Answer the question about Adam and Eve con.? I want to know why christians ignore the fact man was created, then in the Adam and Eve story, we were clearly changed to what we are now. This couldn't be interpreted as divine evolution? If not, why?
The point is Evolution doesn't conflit with creation theories, the Big Bang does, So why judge and blaspheme other christians who see the difference between a worldly existance(evolution), and a spiritual existance(religion)? Are you aware Darwin was going to a school for ministry before his experiments in nature and other observable things. Most scientists, especially from that time period, believed they were learning God's ways and considered themselves Christian.
Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Originally posted by JPhish
unless your going to make an ats account, please don't voice your haughty personal opinions. Especially since they are logically unsound.
Firstly why does he have to make an account to voice an opinion?
Surely that's what the ability to post anonymously is for.
Although personally i dislike the anonymous posts they are part of ATS for a reason.
Secondly whilst i disliked his tone i see nothing wrong with what he said in the factual area,
please tell me where he was logically unsound.
Do so with logical arguements, evidence and not bible quotes and i'll give your answer serious thought i promise.
Originally posted by TheHypnoToad
Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
the part where he claimed to know a truth.
Don't religious people post on here all of the time, anonymously or not, claiming to know truths?
If a person makes a statement that Darwin's theory is a hoax, or that evolution has no facts behind it or evolution is part of an atheistic "religion" aren't they also claiming to know truths?
Originally posted by Gazrok
"Who made God?"
"What was there before Creation?"
"How can a perfect being make imperfect creatures? Wouldn't he no longer be "perfect"?
"Why do WE have to suffer for one idiot's disobedience to God?"
"If Noah had two of each animal on the Ark, what did he do to feed the carnivores, for all of those days?" Wouldn't the "food" animals then go extinct?
Originally posted by SpaceBits
1) Well considering no one really know who/what GOD truly is, I would have to say that impossible to answer by anyone.
Originally posted by SpaceBits
2) GOD was before Creation.
Originally posted by SpaceBits
3) GOD didn't create imperfect creatures. so the second part of this question is invalid.
Originally posted by SpaceBits
4) We don't. Where does it say GOD will punish all for ones disobedience?
Originally posted by SpaceBits
I do agree that both, Creation and Evolution should be tough and that the student should make up there own damn mind instead of trying to push one or the other on them.
Originally posted by Conspiriology
You are going to have to be more specific. I have a problem with you saying Christians ignore the fact man was created? No we don't.
Then you say we clearly changed to what we are now?
What are you saying ? we were something else before? If that is what you are saying without telling me what we were before, then THAT is why Christians ignore it. I can't say that I blame them.
Evolution is incompatible with the bible and with Science and you obviously don't know what a Christian is if you think Darwin was one.
The sprinkling of God water (holy water) over a baby's head after birth by a Roman Catholic Priest a Christian does NOT make.
- Con
Originally posted by azblack
In begining god created every thing in 6 days rested on the 7th, then , the bible says, god created man. Man was then around long enough for Adam to name all the animals and plants, it wasn't until after that it says Eve was created because it was decided Adam didn't have a suitable mate. After a while Eve ate from the tree God changes both Adam and Eve this time and also says we would continue to be molded in his image, or his likeness.
Who is playing God, scientists, or you who would twist an honest inquiry into your beliefs and pass judgement of my Christianity? Should we pray to you since we could just bypass God and you can tell us all what's compatible with God's word?
My interpretation of the Bilble also led me to believe the biggest message in it was the judgement of Jesus and crucifiction, You seem as if you would be the judge; as he was judged? Are you one of those Christians who say one thing and do another?
I have my own personal relationship with him as I'm sure you do, and he tells me something different!
gen2:5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
Gen.3:7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: