The World Trade Towers "Must come down!"

Originally posted by dragonridr
Ill answer your questions than I'm done

I didn't ask questions. I made factual statements that you can't debunk.

Originally posted by dragonridr
The plumes are caused by explosive decompression air escaping a confined space

That would be false. I posted a collage with images from the WTC and one from implosionworld.com. The plumes in each are very similar and nearly identical. I'll believe what's provable, that plumes have only ever been found in CD, than your opinion of what you think they are. Because you cannot provide a video showing these concentrated plumes in any building collapse besides CD. Therefore, this fact is undebunked.

Originally posted by dragonridr
My guess is the explosions probably had to do with the electrical equipment that building would have had multiple transformers and guess what they don't like heat.

Except the "heat" and fires were at the tops of the towers and the generators were in the basement levels. The explosions that destroyed a 50-ton hydraulic brake press, a 300-pound fire door, the parking garage and the lobby were all in the basement levels and nowhere near any heat or fire.

Furthermore, I posted witness testimony from first responders that saw flashes with popping or exploding sounds, just like is seen in the CD video that I also posted. These facts will also remain undebunked.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Wrong Controlled demolitions never starts out in a basement

*sigh* Did you even take the time to thoroughly look over my posts? I posted a video of a CD. There are some flashes with popping/exploding sounds going up, down and around the building, just like the first responders described in both WTC towers. Those initial explosions started at the bottom of the building. Then the bottom is blown first, then the second round of explosives are detonated:

Google Video Link

You are the one that continues to be wrong, sorry.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Now i only answered this out of courtesy because i see you aren't interested in facts only theories

So sorry to burst your bubble, but I've shown nothing but facts and all of which you have not been able to prove otherwise. You are the one theorizing as to what the plumes could be, but I've shown that plumes are from controlled demolitions and you can't prove otherwise besides speculating or theorizing.

I've also shown that numerous witnesses reported explosions in the basement levels that destroyed a 50-ton hydraulic brake press, a machine shop, a 300-pound fire door, the lobby, and the parking garage. You can only speculate and theorize as to what may have happened. But from the destruction described, only high-powered explosives are capable of this kind of devastation.

I've also shown that several first responders reported seeing flashes with popping or exploding sounds going up, down and around the towers in the lower to middle levels as the buildings started to collapse, just like is only ever seen in controlled demolitions. Kinda like the video I posted above. You can only speculate or theorize as to what the flashes and associated popping/exploding sounds might have been.

I also posted witness testimony to pre-collapse explosions and even posted a video with the same exact explosions corroborating the first responders.


To sum things up with facts:

We have plumes, which have only ever been seen in controlled demolitions. We have flashes seen going up, down and around the buildings with associated popping or exploding sounds, just like has only ever been seen in controlled demolitions. We have pre-collapse explosions with devastation in the basement levels, lobby and other floors, which can be associated with controlled demolitions as many CD's have pre-collapse explosions.

You have to put all the puzzle pieces together to form the big picture. All of the above are facts, not theories or opinion like you try to peddle. So it appears you are the one that is interested in theories instead of the undebunkable facts of 9/11.

So you're correct. Unless you can prove any of the above wrong with factual evidence instead of your opinion, then there's nothing left to say.

reply to post by _BoneZ_

Care to explain how a 50-ton hydraulic brake press and an entire machine shop can be destroyed, a 300-pound steel and concrete fire door crumpled up and laying on the ground, parking garage destroyed, lobby destroyed, all without explosives? I bet you can't do it.

Yes we can! Its called DEFLAGRATION - rapid buring of suspended
combustible materials

en.wikipedia.org...

Same process which couple punds of flour dust can level a reinforced
concrete grain elevator

Westwego Louisana - Dec 1977 35 killed





Notice pickup truck crushed by blast



3 weeks later another grain elevator exploded in Galveston Tx

18 killed





Here is reference for grain elevator explosions

labs.lib.ksu.edu...

Now you have several thousand gallons of Jet fuel pouring into elevator
shafts - only fraction of the fuel burned in initial fireball

Burning Jet fuel blew down the elevator shaft to emerge on Lobby and
Basement levels - where the shaftway doors were

here is link to reports of the fuel explosions in the elevator shafts

911stories.googlepages.com...

Read it - might learn something......

*** ATTENTION ***

GET ON TOPIC AND STOP DISCUSSING ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by _BoneZ_

 

I've read and read your information, yet there are plenty of places that seem to refute your conclusions, and have very reasonable explanations for the collapses.

Snippets from this source have been brought up, I think, because sections sounded familiar, but I thought this little bit was interesting:

If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h. It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

JOM pubs

I know you say the central columns in the cores were very strong, and should not have failed, but can you be 100% certain that the shearing forces weren't just too much for them, and the cumulative effects?

I know, I know....you've studied this for years, along with colleagues, but only one side of the argument can be correct. How can there be so much dispute? HOW can the Towers have been pre-rigged, with no one seeing?? Is it not true that radio-controlled devices would not have been reliable enough, so they would have had to have been hard-wired?

Just can't see it.

If only the airplanes has hit lower there probably wouldn't be any doubts about the collapses......

Lets see your wacky wizardry apply the above crap to building number SEVEN wacker.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by thedman
only fraction of the fuel burned in initial fireball

This actually made me laugh out loud. You haven't the slightest clue how the ignition of fuel works. Most of the jet fuel burned up in the fireball.

You didn't even read my previous posts, but let's say for a moment that you're correct that some magical fireball was able to travel a quarter mile down the tower (even though heat and fire travel up!) and pick certain floors to stop on. The magical fireball isn't what destroyed the lobby or the lower levels.

I posted this more than once, but I'll do it again:





That firefighter was at his station and witnessed the first impact, which your imaginary fireball should have travelled down (though heat and fire travel up) and made it to the lower levels within seconds after the impact. After witnessing the impact, he and his team suited up, travelled to the WTC and made it inside and got their orders. You can speculate how long it would take to suit up, travel to the WTC and make it inside through all the people to the command post in the lobby of WTC, but it was well after the first impact and fireball was well gone.

By the time they made it up to the 24th floor and back down to the lobby, the lobby had been completely destroyed long after either plane had hit both towers. Your "fireball" scenario doesn't work for both explosions that destroyed the lobby.

Not to mention, and this is the good part, the initial fireball was barely able to knock the aluminum siding off of the steel columns at the impact area, but you would have us believe that fire mechanics were reversed and the fire travelled down (fire travels up) and somehow was powerful enough to destroy the lobby, parking garage, a 50-ton hydraulic brake press, a 300-pound fire door?

Not happening in the real world. You have much to learn. I seriously don't know how some of you can even calculate such ridiculousness in your minds. Denial disorder makes people say and do the craziest things.

You show how a jet fuel fireball can destroy a 50-ton hydraulic brake press, 300-pound steel and concrete door, an entire parking garage, an entire lobby, and then I'll believe you. But until then, the stuff you make up to explain away the facts is hilarious!

Originally posted by cashlink


Over the years, the process known as 'galvanic corrosion' had structurally degraded these buildings beyond repair. Supporting statements to this effect had been compiled, and were presented by the engineers to the building owners during the time-frame that I have described. Subsequently, both Mayor Giuliani's Office, and the New York Port Authority, had allegedly received an order for the buildings to be completely dismantled, by 2007."


Please, take the time and read TECHNICAL SUMMARY.
Befor posting thank you.

Through the continual effects of wind-sheer and [flex-fatigue] this process had eroded the bolt-holds at roughly floors #7 through #25, that fulcrum-point where the lateral pressures were inherently sustained. Photographs, taken after the disaster, reveal that it was only those lowest exterior column sectional groupings which do not appear to have shown severe de-coupling of the joinery, therein. This is evidenced by the bright 'shiny,' cage-like forms that served to contain the bulk of the physical contents among a burning rubble

The building was bid at $750,M, and cost$1.2B to build. It was worth about $4. to $5.B at its peak., but, would have cost nearly $15.B to un-build it in 2010 dollars, or as it neared its 1/2 'safe' life. Obviously, it was Imploded, because there was never going to be a 'break-even' point for either, the current, or future owners.

Recently I learned from Tommy Malley, who claims his family are involved in New York City construction, and his testimony sounded very possession of pre-bid information pertaining to the Towers. Mr. Malley encouraged me to revise my figures, which brings forth a startling, and potentially critical new discovery, which I will quote:

"The owners were fully aware of the problem and had been given the ultimatum that they could not 'implode' the buildings. They received the report stating that: Decommissioning was required by the EPA by no later than 2007, at a projected cost of $20.B"

ALUMINUM + STEEL = Electro-mechanical failure!

(as posted, online: 7/18/06)

The Controlled Demolition
of the World Trade Center; 9/11/2001,
and "National Security Breach"

A material, 'legal deposition'
by Tom-Scott Gordon

July, 5, 2006
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
As presented to the U.S. Senate Oversight Committee, and others:

AFFIDAVIT:

"The destruction of the World Trade Center, as witnessed on September 11th, 2001, was the result of an elaborately planned, Controlled Demolition." This is the conclusion of thousands of witnesses and hundreds of forensics experts. Given due consideration, these findings imply, that *US MILITARY* personnel are responsible for crimes that led to the murder of an estimated 3,000 innocent Americans.

As a living witness to these actions, as I have described herein, I do hereby officially charge those responsible, both for the execution, and for the '9/11 cover-up,' with the crimes of: Conspiracy, Treason, Genocide and Murder. Additional criminal charges also apply.

My sole objective in composing this document is to publicize the *initial phase* of this covert operation at the World Trade Center, dating back to 1989. While I was employed by the WTC Architects of Record; Emery Roth and Associates, AIA, New York City, where I discovered both physical samples and written documentation concerning potential hazards with the physical integrity of the Twin Towers. After witnessing these events, I publicly expressed my concern for a thorough public safety-inspection of the Twin Trade Towers, to other architects and contractors.

To date, not one of our staff, nor the 40-or so full-time employees of the WTC building engineering team has spoken-out publicly, or provided a testimony under oath. A thorough investigation of these parties, named herein, will provide disclosure as to precise nature of these events as I have described. This shall serve as a complete legal record of my direct exposure to these *pre-existing physical, materials conditions* at the Twin Trade Center, that collectively support the *financial motivation* which had prompted the New York Port Authority, AND operatives within NORAD, (or NSA) to engage in this seditious act of "espionage."

No similar information has been provided by any other witness(es) that I am aware of, and no individuals have provided details that would serve to dispute my claims in any way. I remain hopeful that others, more closely connected with this property, and ideally, those having access to the City of New York Buildings Departments, will continue with the points of research as suggested by the information in this document.

www.investigate911.com...

www.investigate911.com...

redlineav.com...

Please befor posting Please read all the information, thank you.

star flag thanks for the OP.
But am I missing something here?
Is the original op date back in 2008?
What's up with that?
Any way it is a shame that this thread has become the same ole same ole.
I was hoping to learn something about what happened to this dudes claims. Even more now that it could have been a year ago or so.
thanks donny

Originally posted by CaptainAmerica2012
One thing for sure is that the world trade center complex was designed with it's destruction in mind.

The 'what if' possibility was never glossed over and was implemented in it's design.

If i were to buiild a 110 story building i would also like to know how long it would last and how can we bring it down safely in case of fire or airline crash. I would have explosives and or a design which would allow global collapse. Then I would build smaller building around WTC 5,6,4 to act as buffers for the collapse.

If you want to get conspiratorial then once can see that the Rockefellers built the towers and if you know their history then you will understand the some of the picture as to why this is all happening.

Would you also do this for insurance money? Would murder 3,000 wonderful living breathing innocent moms, dads, sons and daughters?
Friends, lovers ,cops, firefighters.etc. etc.
Someone or someones did. As John Walsh says "Lets bring them to justice."

reply to post by _BoneZ_


Your hilarious where did you learn about demolitions. I suppose it was the Internet. If your going to take down a building you don't even concern yourself with the basement. Your video you put up as proof started the explosions on at least the 4th floor go watch the video again.

As far as the plumes you like to keep saying don't show up anywhere but in explosives demolitions.My god man you cant be that stupid really.As i explained before explosives don't take the building down gravity does.In the video you showed does the explosives go off while the building collapses no?hmmm wonder why well maybe the building had to reach critical failure of its supports what would the building be fighting against maybe GRAVITY! And let me tell you there is no way on earth demolitions are needed after a collapse is in progress like the wtc once the collapse occurs why do you need explosives? And on top of that how in the world would they have timed that it be like trying to shoot a quarter in orbit.


You really must live in an alternate universe where you think you can suspend the laws of physics.If a building fails or is brought down with explosives it will look exactly the same. The reason is simple they both cause structural failure and gravity brings down the building.So in other words saying plumes only occur in demolitions is stupid.where do you think the air goes does it magically disappear?

And again since your the demolitions expert you find one person that does demolitions that start in the basement.You always get the upper floors to start to collapse and let gravity do the rest. As my instructor once said Gravity will do all the hard work!

Now lets discuss the obvious if explosives were set in the building who did it? That would have been a major undertaking involving months of work and I'm sure tenants wouldn't have been happy with people running wires all over there offices cutting holes in walls. Not to mention you could not find any demolitions team willing to put explosives in a building where people were going to be my god cant you see that.

Unless you expect me to believe they set this up in a couple of hours which again would be impossible. It would just squib! (that means fail)Now you can choose to believe some website who knows nothing about demolitions telling you lies if you like but if i were you why don't you look into how a building would be set up for demolition.And by the way if the demolitions team do there job right you wont be able to tell from the outside of the building explosives are going off because that means they screwed up!In demolitions you never want explosive force to leave the building its to dangerous and leads to people being killed from shrapnel explosive force has thousands of pounds of pressure explosive decompression hundreds.

reply to post by Donny 4 million

III.) "FBI" 'take-over' at the WTC!
Well aware of the neighboring Manhattan building 'security' protocols, I was prepared as I entered the building during the morning rush-hour, at around 9:10am. However, I was singled-out from the ordinary building patrons, and immediately escorted to a secondary check-point by the lobby guards, which entirely caught me by surprise.
I explained my interests politely, assuming that I would be allowed free access to the general public areas, such as "Windows on the World," where, "I was just looking forward to seeing the view."
(What kind of guard could challenge that?)

-Evidently, someone had provided them with my photograph because I looked indistinguishable amongst the usual patrons at that time of day. However, I was immediately told that I was on a list of persons who were explicitly to be escorted upstairs, "to insure that I would arrive at the engineering office in time for Our meeting." - "What meeting?" I thought, quite logically!
The suite was listed on the Guard's ledger as: "Skilling & Jackson, P.C.," -a name I had seen somewhere in print, but I had no prior relations with. (Being fully aware that Emery Roth had NOT maintained an office in the building for many years, clearly this was NOT a situation vaguely pertaining to me!)
Two regular WTC official guards came from the nearby service area (rear) to escort me upstairs. As we arrived at the 'skylobby,' two, different guards accompanied me from there. I had no idea I was that important a guest.
When we arrived at the door to this suite, (Tower 1, around the 84th to 86th floor, North) there was yet another guard standing outside, and I became highly skeptical by this point because of the temporary qualities of the sign on their 'main' office door. They had a brand new, fake wood engraved plastic sign, it read: "Skilling Associates, P.C." (I thought, this name doesn't match, and this office has been here for what, over 10 years? ¬Can someone please call Continuity?)

redlineav.com...
Looks to me a cover-up of information was already at hand and a broad rate of intimidation was in progress to silence all the people involved that was hired to investigate the “galvanic corrosion” that had structurally degraded the WTC beyond any repair. The real owners (The Port Authority) would do their best to cover-up the nightmare at any cost. You all have to remember the WTC towers 1 & 2 were an America icon, not to mention the tallest buildings in the United States. So the only problem was now how do we make the problem go away without anyone finding out the truth? I KNOW LET’S ASK FOR APROVAL FOR DEMOLITION! The Port Authority did twice and the government of NYC denied the claim twice. See folks they already had a plan to blow up the WTC back in 1998 & 1999.
I still find it so fascinated that the very demolition company that clean up the WTC debris site (ground zero) had their own office in WTC1. Looks to me they already had this contract long before they lost their office in the trade center. One only has to see the very demolition company who was hired by a rough element in our government probably working with The Port Authority as well, also used this event to traumatize the world and terrorized the American people into believing 19 Muslim carried out such an imposable defeat. That is not what happed.

reply to post by _BoneZ_


There was over 9,000 gal of jet fuel on each plane which struck the WTC

Only about 1/2 the fuel was consumed in the initial fireballs on impact -
this left nearly 5000 gallons of jet fuel available.

books.google.com... --O9-6lnd0&hl=en&ei=1MaISpzYB9KptgeckNXnDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1

Did you read the reports from the source I posted - many of the
first people into the lobby reported

1) Windows blown out, marble panels dislodged

2) Smell of Jet fuel

3) People badly burned or dead, bodies charred

4) Elevator doors blown off

Firefighter John Morabito of ladder 10, which is just 200 yards from the north tower.
“Just inside the front entrance, Morabito found two victims of the fireball. A man, already dead, was pushed against a wall, his clothes gone, his eyeglasses blackened, his tongue lying on the floor next to him. The other was a woman, with no clothes, her hair burned off, her eyes sealed.

“The woman, she sat up. I’m yelling to her, ‘Don’t worry, we’re going to help you,’” Morabito said. “She sat up and was trying to talk, but her throat had closed up. She died right there.” www.fdnytenhouse.com...

Dave Bobbitt, Port Authority Operations
"It was quite hectic, and we did what we could to stay in contact with the elevator passengers while helping to direct other people out of the building and direct firemen to the stairs and the elevators," Bobbitt remarked. "When entering the North Tower, we saw the marble on the walls was severely cracked, and Riccardelli told everyone to stay back from the walls. Don (Parente) noticed that the doors of elevators number 6 and 7 had been blown out." –Courage Above and Beyond the Call of Duty: A Report of the September 11, 2001 Experiences of Port Authority Engineers at the World Trade Center

Lobby & 3rd floor: Firefighter Peter Blaich
As we got to the third floor of the B stairway, we forced open an elevator door which was burnt on all three sides. The only thing that was remaining was the hoistway door. And inside the elevator were about I didn’t recognize them initially, but a guy from 1 Truck said oh my God, those are people. They were pretty incinerated. And I remember the overpowering smell of kerosene. That’s when Lieutenant Foti said oh, that’s the jet fuel. I remember it smelled like if you’re camping and you drop a kerosene lamp.

The same thing happened to the elevators in the main lobby. They were basically blown out. I do’nt recall if I actually saw people in there. What got me initially in the lobby was that as soon as we went in, all the windows were blown out, and there were one or two burning cars outside. And there were burn victims on the street there, walking around. We walked through this giant blown-out window into the lobby.

There was a lady there screaming that she didn’t know how she got burnt. She was just in the lobby and then next thing she knew she was on fire. She was burnt bad. And somebody came over with a fire extinguisher and was putting water on her.

That’s the first thing that got me. That and in front of one of the big elevator banks in the lobby was a desk and I definitely made out one of the corpses to be a security guard because he had a security label on his jacket. I’m assuming that maybe he was at a table still in a chair and almost completely incinerated, charred all over his body, definitely dead. And you could make out like a security tag on his jacket. And I remember seeing the table was melted, but he was still fused in the chair and that elevator bank was melted, so I imagine the jet fuel must have blown right down the elevator shaft and I guess caught the security guard at a table, I guess at some type of checkpoint. www.firehouse.com...

(Vasana) Mutuanot was in the lobby of Tower One when she heard the first explosion. Thinking it was a bomb like the terrorist attack in 1993, she turned to run, looking over her shoulder as flames leaped from a freight elevator shaft cooking her back and legs and right cheek. "It was a fireball with sand and heat, like a hurricane of fire," she said.
www.chron.com...

Mututanont ran out of the building then fell after flying glass sliced through a tendon in her leg. A wall of fire followed her outside.
“Swept to my back from my feet up and then I see fire all over, in my hair, also. A lot of people just blew away, you know, like that.” www.pbs.org...

As he waited for orders, Meldrum, the chauffeur (Fire engine driver), noticed that all windows in the high lobby were blown out. Glass and marble from busted walls littered the floors, crunched underfoot. He caught an occasional whiff of jet fuel, a smell like kerosene, wafting from elevator shafts. On the floor by the elevators he saw burned people. www.projo.com...

Also did you check the pictures of grain elevator explosions?

I take it you did not....?

Same process at work - DEFLAGRATION aka rapid burning of suspensed
combustible materials!

look at the pictures - few pounds of flour dust did this....

The jet fuel poured down the shafts and aersolized - fuel droplets
then ignited forming a fireball

Seen it in person when fighting fire in chemical plant - hose line stirred
up pool of spilled toulene. It then ignited in massive fireball. Fortunately far enough back so did not get burnt. Neverless scared the $%^& of
us....

reply to post by impressme


Thanks impress.
It is just incredible how people here can refute evidence like this. Is it your thinking that building # 7 was included in the need to demo scenario? All this crap about jet fuel don't apply at all there.
Neither does the upper stories causing the pancake nonsense.

Originally posted by _BoneZ_

Originally posted by thedman
only fraction of the fuel burned in initial fireball

This actually made me laugh out loud. You haven't the slightest clue how the ignition of fuel works. Most of the jet fuel burned up in the fireball.

You didn't even read my previous posts, but let's say for a moment that you're correct that some magical fireball was able to travel a quarter mile down the tower (even though heat and fire travel up!) and pick certain floors to stop on. The magical fireball isn't what destroyed the lobby or the lower levels.

I came back here because I have been looking for a post of some kind addressing the fact that the fuel is usually in the wings. Correct me if I am wrong.
So in my mind the wings of any aircraft penetrating any structure would be left outside that structure. Along with most of the jp4.
I didn't find anything of this nature in the OP.
I think that guy was stressing why the complex was already scheduled for demolition

[edit on 17-8-2009 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by Donny 4 million



.... addressing the fact that the fuel is usually in the wings. Correct me if I am wrong.

OK. Risk of OT, but it is to refute the OP's assertion, based on testimony from ONE man, that the plan was to deconstruct the Towers, so they decided to save a few bucks and kill people doing it.

Jet fuel location, B767:

Flammable Material Locations

This is a graphic for Airport F&R personnel. MOST of the fuel is in the Center Tank, when fueled for long distance flights. You can see for yourself the arrangement, and fuel capacities.

So in my mind the wings of any aircraft penetrating any structure would be left outside that structure.

No, look at impact pictures. If it 'penetrates', that means it's inside, right?

I didn't find anything of this nature in the OP.
I think that guy was stressing why the complex was already scheduled for demolition.

Well, so the OP contends. Proof???





[edit on 17 August 2009 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Donny 4 million


I to find it impossible for aluminum airplane wings staying intact full of fuel. There is no way light weight aluminum will stay intact on impact the government including NIST wants us to believe in the impossible logic that defies the laws of physics. It is impossible period. They want us to believe that this light weight wings stayed in tact on impact slicing through 10 or more steel and concrete support beams. Come on, talk about the government and NIST playing on our intelligent and getting away with it. It is funny when I watch all the videos and photos of the plane flying in the WTC my eyes see the plan magically almost ghost like flying in the WTC in the first few seconds there is no damage to the plane and it as if the building closes in on the airplane like the damage where the airplane wings should be on impact in those few seconds are not there like the plane wings just melted or almost like they really weren’t there. I am “not saying” a plane did not hit the WTC. What I am saying what we all witnessed on TV on the morning of 911 of the plane flying into the WTC was televised in such a way that it does not seem real. It has never been proven the planes in question were the real planes because the FBI made sure the evidence was buried like the time change out parts not being used to properly to identify the crash airplanes in all the crashes that day.
The passenger’s lists are questionable and the terrorist name were not on the passenger list how covenant for the alleged terrorist. Then we have 6 of the 19 alleged hijackers that were in these alleged hijacked airplanes walking around and have sued the government to clear their names. Then we find out several years down the road the Barbra Olsen phone calls to Ted Olsen was a lie, that it never happened because of this alleged phone call on the morning of 911 the TV News told us the viewers, that Barbra Olsen said there was knife welding Muslims on their airplane. That is how the Press found out and broadcast this information about hijackers being on board all of these airplanes that morning. Now we find out that Barbra Olsen phone call never happened it was all a lie. Ted Olsen worked with President Bush. The OS stinks of a false flag operation, and cover-up.

Originally posted by dragonridr

Your hilarious where did you learn about demolitions. I suppose it was the Internet. If your going to take down a building you don't even concern yourself with the basement. Your video you put up as proof started the explosions on at least the 4th floor go watch the video again.

You don`t concentrate on the strongest and highest load bearing part of the building?, this is a job for my exceptional photo shop skills.....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e319a19d25e6.jpg[/atsimg]

In the drawing it depicts a few of your incorrect statements spread through this reply, the centre core is connected to the footings roughly 60 feet below surface level, and is constructed from the largest beams used in both towers explain how removing a section or severely weakening the back bone of a structure is not important?

As far as the plumes you like to keep saying don't show up anywhere but in explosives demolitions.My god man you cant be that stupid really.As i explained before explosives don't take the building down gravity does.In the video you showed does the explosives go off while the building collapses no?hmmm wonder why well maybe the building had to reach critical failure of its supports what would the building be fighting against maybe GRAVITY! And let me tell you there is no way on earth demolitions are needed after a collapse is in progress like the wtc once the collapse occurs why do you need explosives? And on top of that how in the world would they have timed that it be like trying to shoot a quarter in orbit.

Again look at the picture, the blue section depicts where air pressure increases, which is between 2 points and those are when the ceiling and floor from storey above are descending to the floor directly below, so what caused the explosions lower than where this phenomenon is happening?, you have explosions mid collapse to remove resistance, and timing?, you never seen a huge firework display timed exactly with music? - normally classical, via computers.

You really must live in an alternate universe where you think you can suspend the laws of physics.If a building fails or is brought down with explosives it will look exactly the same. The reason is simple they both cause structural failure and gravity brings down the building.So in other words saying plumes only occur in demolitions is stupid.where do you think the air goes does it magically disappear?

You accuse someone of living on another planet then mention physics and air in the same paragraph . The fundamental laws of Physics and Fire - the triangle = heat, oxygen, fuel, you did ask where the air would go didn`t you?.

And again since your the demolitions expert you find one person that does demolitions that start in the basement.You always get the upper floors to start to collapse and let gravity do the rest. As my instructor once said Gravity will do all the hard work!

How many times has your instructor brought down unique 110 storey towers, you do know what unique means don`t you?.

Now lets discuss the obvious if explosives were set in the building who did it? That would have been a major undertaking involving months of work and I'm sure tenants wouldn't have been happy with people running wires all over there offices cutting holes in walls. Not to mention you could not find any demolitions team willing to put explosives in a building where people were going to be my god cant you see that.

There are so many ways around how to place explosives in occupied buildings, when you are the government and your brother is on the board of the security firm in charge of a complex is a good theory to start with, explosives embedded in ceiling tiles and Thermite as paint based, or the huge amount of supposed computer batteries that floors had to be reinforced to with hold their weight right up their around floors 81 in the South Tower = another few points to ponder.

Unless you expect me to believe they set this up in a couple of hours which again would be impossible. It would just squib! (that means fail)Now you can choose to believe some website who knows nothing about demolitions telling you lies if you like but if i were you why don't you look into how a building would be set up for demolition.And by the way if the demolitions team do there job right you wont be able to tell from the outside of the building explosives are going off because that means they screwed up!In demolitions you never want explosive force to leave the building its to dangerous and leads to people being killed from shrapnel explosive force has thousands of pounds of pressure explosive decompression hundreds.

All I will respond with here is a point none relative to explosions and the like, but good old common sense. Why would anyone take a huge stock market gamble that would and indeed has, a return over 5 billion dollars, and never reclaim it. Great luck finding a website to answer this, and your general perceptions of demolitions is appalling.

[edit on 11/08/2009 by Seventh]

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Originally posted by Donny 4 million



.... addressing the fact that the fuel is usually in the wings. Correct me if I am wrong.

OK. Risk of OT, but it is to refute the OP's assertion, based on testimony from ONE man, that the plan was to deconstruct the Towers, so they decided to save a few bucks and kill people doing it.

So in my mind the wings of any aircraft penetrating any structure would be left outside that structure.

No, look at impact pictures. If it 'penetrates', that means it's inside, right?

I didn't find anything of this nature in the OP.
I think that guy was stressing why the complex was already scheduled for demolition.

Well, so the OP contends. Proof???

I tried your link. I couldn't get it to load.
I have no reason to doubt you on the fuel location. But I think it is very important where that fuel went (PROOF) and how much (Proof).
No one could verify that most was not dumped by the pilot knowing he was hijacked.
As far as wings staying on-- I'll reserve comment until I can study some movies.
Dial up stinks for downloads.

Different owners said pull it. The port had sold the buildings to others connected to people who have attacked our military and killed a lot of them. Those folks also had lots of there highly trained (in demo work)
arrested Sept. 11 2001 within miles of the towers. Some dancing in glee.

I have not found out about building #7 being included in the statements of the man testifying .

In any event and stretch of the imagination could building NUMBER SEVEN pancake to the ground
exactly as 1 and 2 did.
There was no plane, missile, drone and no amount of jp4 or jet fuel.
my proof. Erin Brocovich

Originally posted by Seventh
Originally posted by dragonridr

Your hilarious where did you learn about demolitions. I suppose it was the Internet. If your going to take down a building you don't even concern yourself with the basement. Your video you put up as proof started the explosions on at least the 4th floor go watch the video again.

You don`t concentrate on the strongest and highest load bearing part of the building?, this is a job for my exceptional photo shop skills.....

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e319a19d25e6.jpg[/atsimg]

In the drawing it depicts a few of your incorrect statements spread through this reply, the centre core is connected to the footings roughly 60 feet below surface level, and is constructed from the largest beams used in both towers explain how removing a section or severely weakening the back bone of a structure is not important?

As far as the plumes you like to keep saying don't show up anywhere but in explosives demolitions.My god man you cant be that stupid really.As i explained before explosives don't take the building down gravity does.In the video you showed does the explosives go off while the building collapses no?hmmm wonder why well maybe the building had to reach critical failure of its supports what would the building be fighting against maybe GRAVITY! And let me tell you there is no way on earth demolitions are needed after a collapse is in progress like the wtc once the collapse occurs why do you need explosives? And on top of that how in the world would they have timed that it be like trying to shoot a quarter in orbit.

Again look at the picture, the blue section depicts where air pressure increases, which is between 2 points and those are when the ceiling and floor from storey above are descending to the floor directly below, so what caused the explosions lower than where this phenomenon is happening?, you have explosions mid collapse to remove resistance, and timing?, you never seen a huge firework display timed exactly with music? - normally classical, via computers.

You really must live in an alternate universe where you think you can suspend the laws of physics.If a building fails or is brought down with explosives it will look exactly the same. The reason is simple they both cause structural failure and gravity brings down the building.So in other words saying plumes only occur in demolitions is stupid.where do you think the air goes does it magically disappear?

You accuse someone of living on another planet then mention physics and air in the same paragraph

. The fundamental laws of Physics and Fire - the triangle = heat, oxygen, fuel, you did ask where the air would go didn`t you?.

And again since your the demolitions expert you find one person that does demolitions that start in the basement.You always get the upper floors to start to collapse and let gravity do the rest. As my instructor once said Gravity will do all the hard work!

How many times has your instructor brought down unique 110 storey towers, you do know what unique means don`t you?.

Now lets discuss the obvious if explosives were set in the building who did it? That would have been a major undertaking involving months of work and I'm sure tenants wouldn't have been happy with people running wires all over there offices cutting holes in walls. Not to mention you could not find any demolitions team willing to put explosives in a building where people were going to be my god cant you see that.

There are so many ways around how to place explosives in occupied buildings, when you are the government and your brother is on the board of the security firm in charge of a complex is a good theory to start with, explosives embedded in ceiling tiles and Thermite as paint based, or the huge amount of supposed computer batteries that floors had to be reinforced to with hold their weight right up their around floors 81 in the South Tower = another few points to ponder.

Unless you expect me to believe they set this up in a couple of hours which again would be impossible. It would just squib! (that means fail)Now you can choose to believe some website who knows nothing about demolitions telling you lies if you like but if i were you why don't you look into how a building would be set up for demolition.And by the way if the demolitions team do there job right you wont be able to tell from the outside of the building explosives are going off because that means they screwed up!In demolitions you never want explosive force to leave the building its to dangerous and leads to people being killed from shrapnel explosive force has thousands of pounds of pressure explosive decompression hundreds.

All I will respond with here is a point none relative to explosions and the like, but good old common sense. Why would anyone take a huge stock market gamble that would and indeed has, a return over 5 billion dollars, and never reclaim it. Great luck finding a website to answer this, and your general perceptions of demolitions is appalling.

[edit on 11/08/2009 by Seventh]

How bout a simple answer like this DUH.
The squibs are visible as you concede as possible. (LOOK LIKE SQUIBS)
IN the RIGHT place for a squib.
Any air to be jettisoned from the structure would happen through the windows
and would be associated with the illumination of the morning sun.
If it LOOKS LIKE A SQUIB ------- IT IS A SQUIB.
simple enough! Got a couple pages of none sense pre prepared .

reply to post by Donny 4 million










Just to correct you on a couple of things ill start with the fuel dump why would a terrorist dump fuel? Were you not aware the pilot was not in control of th plane so how would he dump fuel. Now back to demolitions you wont find anyone on the planet that would say they could have brought down the WTC with explosives so asking whether my instructor did is irrelevant because it would have been impossible short of dropping a bunker buster on the roof. Now if the footings as you called them were exploded why was part of the core of the tower still standing. You challenge find me one demolition company that is concerned with the basement. The object of demolitions is to get the building to ground level so you can clean it up. Theres another factor you apparently were un aware of as well there was a subway under the tower the building supports was literally the subway terminal.It was a platform the building rested on.

And i think your diagram did a pretty good job at explaining plumes from compressed air. So i wont touch on that but lets talk about fuel tanks for jets for a minute If a fuel tank was full which was most likely the case the fuel inside the tank it reinforces the integrity.Easy experiment for you to try get 2 plastic bottles fill one completely to the top the other half full and jump on it you'll get the idea.

Now about this magic demolitions team since apparently you concede they didn't do it that day.Then we must have an invisible elfin demolition team theory i guess? These magical creatures tore out the interior walls of three massive skyscrapers, wrapped the structural beams with powerful cutting charges, replaced all the walls and furniture exactly as they were, and erased the memories of the thousands of people who would have witnessed their walls and furniture moving around without apparent cause. (They were probably aided by rings imbued with unspeakable powers, and cloaks woven by spiders of pure darkness.)

Then, on September 11, most if not all of the emergency workers on the scene were part of this sprawling conspiracy — perhaps under the sway of a dark elfin charm. Rather than trying to save survivors, these first responders were in fact the willing assassins of thousands of innocent people. And after the towers fell, while standing in the charred remains of their friends and co-workers, they pretended to try to put out fires in WTC 7, but in fact they were all just biding their time, waiting for just the right moment to push the big red explosion button which would cover their tracks with the pixie dust of elfin thermite.

(To be fair, the bombs were probably manufactured by gnomes)


Prove my theory wrong can you?

Originally posted by dragonridr
If your going to take down a building you don't even concern yourself with the basement first. Your video you put up as proof started the explosions on at least the 4th floor go watch the video again.

I've learned demolitions in the real world, apparently unlike you. Many demolitions take out the supports in the basement. Why? Because that's where the building is anchored to the ground and where it's strongest supports are.

Since you apparently didn't understand what you were seeing in the video, I made an animated image so that it's more clear. Check out the massive explosions in the basement/lower levels, then smaller one's go up and around the tower from there:


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b3c0c3a910fc.gif[/atsimg]


Also in the video, see all the flashes going up, down and around the building? Do you hear the popping/exploding sounds associated with the flashes? Yep, same thing seen and heard by credible first responders in both WTC towers.

Originally posted by dragonridr
And let me tell you there is no way on earth demolitions are needed after a collapse is in progress

You are correct. However, the demolition of the WTC was not your everyday standard demolition. We're talking about a demolition where life and property were not concerns and a demolition where they were trying to make it look as little as possible like a demolition. But there are too many tell-tale signs of demolitions, many of which are present in 3 WTC buildings.

Originally posted by dragonridr
So in other words saying plumes only occur in demolitions is stupid.where do you think the air goes does it magically disappear?

You can keep stomping your foot on the floor and call things stupid, but what you can't do is prove that those plumes are visible in any other building collapse besides controlled demolition, period. End of discussion on the plumes until you can show some real physical evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by dragonridr
find one person that does demolitions that start in the basement.

I've already shown one video where the basement is blown just before the rest of the explosives are set off. So you're already debunked on that part.

If you weren't an armchair debunker and did some actual research and learned about controlled demolition as I have for the past several years, you'd know the reason why many demolitions start in the basement. I already told you above that the bottom of a building is where it's strongest supports are anchored to the ground.

Further, doing some actual research on controlled demolitions would also have shown you many other videos where the basement is blown first right before rest of the building.

Time to stop typing a bunch of meaningless words onto your screen and doing a little research.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Now lets discuss the obvious if explosives were set in the building who did it?

That would be a great question to ask when we get our new investigation.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Not to mention you could not find any demolitions team willing to put explosives in a building where people were going to be my god cant you see that.

If you're going to get a multi-BILLION dollar check for the destruction of your buildings, you won't give a damn if there's people in them or not. Money is power. There are very few billionaires on this planet and the person that owned/leased the WTC was one of them. There are some very cold-hearted people that roam this planet and many of them are the rich and powerful one's.

Originally posted by dragonridr
Unless you expect me to believe they set this up in a couple of hours which again would be impossible.

This could've been planned for years. Bush's brother was on the board of directors for the security company of the WTC. Bush's other brother was governor of the state where election fraud took place to allow W. Bush to steal the election from Gore and carry out 9/11 less than a year later.

Cheney and Rumsfeld had to be part of that team also as they tried some of their same BS back in 1975. They tried saying Russia was amassing weapons of mass destruction. Turned out it was false, just like they said Iraq was amassing weapons of mass destruction, which was also false. Completely false BS by the same players of the game.

Originally posted by dragonridr
And by the way if the demolitions team do there job right you wont be able to tell from the outside of the building explosives are going off because that means they screwed up!

Well considering almost every demolition out there has explosive ejections, by your logic they are screwing up with most every demolition. I think you're just making things up and trying to tell everyone how you think demolitions should be.

You've got much to learn about history, why 9/11 had to happen and most certainly about controlled demolitions. Take some time off and do some much needed research. You could use the break anyway.