christ on a stick ATS! what the hell??

By my reg. date, I'm not an "old" member by any means, but I have been visiting and lurking around ATS almost since its inception.

It seems to me that for the past few years, the Fail-boat, while tugging along the short yellow bus, has repeatedly docked at the ATS port, unloading its cargo of mentally unwashed, prepubescent morons. ATS/BTS used to be one of my favorite places to visit, not only for open minded discussions, but for alternative theories and possibilities about our world, as well as the inner and outer universe surrounding us.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought that the motto of this place was "Deny Ignorance". Well, ignorance is mostly what seems to be emanating ATS/BTS as of late. Misinformation runs rampant, with (mostly) newer members refusing to acknowledge when they are wrong, ignoring any information that goes against their argument, or using circular reasoning to continue an argument that is invalid or simply doesn't exist, burdening the quality of ATS even further.

Now it feels like one has to use a sifter to find anything that's remotely worth considering. Not only that, but I'm beginning to notice that thinly veiled racism, under the guise of "political or social discussion" especially against Blacks, Muslims, and Hispanics is slowly seeping in, finding a nice comfy home here, some seemingly with moderator approval. This appears especially true with newer members, but even some older ones do it too.

While it wasn't a concrete rule, it was considered general courtesy that when you quoted someone on an outside link, you listed the source, so that those who were refuting you could check out your information for themselves. Lately though, all you have to do is put quote tags around anything you write, provide little to no clues about your source, and other posters will automatically take your "quote" as an absolute fact, without any curiosity or question as where you got your information. This sometimes leads threads to spiral out on the basis of misinformation or an outright lie.

The open-minded discussions, theoretical discussions, and "heated", but interesting and respectful arguments seem as though they've all but disappeared. Why has the mutual level of respect, as well as the quality of the posts here sunk so low? It leaves me feeling as if ATS/BTS is teetering on the point of becoming a cesspool of knowledge...

Overall, I still have a high opinion of the majority of the members of ATS/BTS, as well as the people who maintain this place. But if this current level of discourse is what is considered to be "denying ignorance", then please excuse me while I search for an alternative 'home'.

there's a thread about this runnin round somewhere. Um be the post you want to see, or something to that effect. IDK, I would suggest that if the fair at the A/BTS buffet is not to your liking then by all means stir up a topic of your own that you feel would be justifiable for this site.

I mean it is a user content site after all, It is what you put into it. As of late there are more people putting manure into it than relevant investigation however if you would do the honor of putting forth your own brilliant idea, perhaps then a better trend will start.

Ill admit I don't have the greatest ideas for threads in the world. But I do try. And to try, yet fail is better than to not try at all.

Keep it up and don't get discouraged, its summer time in the US and that means that the kiddies are out in numbers. And that means (by my limited time here) a spout of bs posts and off the wall people making mockeries of well thought out theories.

Perhaps this might be a great time for you to jump into one of the contests, or perhaps write that short story that you have stuck in your head, maybe join into one of the debates, or perhaps a break is in order.

Any way you look at this site you can make it better with your participation. All you have to do is put it out there and the people that will apreciate your idea or disagree with it intelegently will be there.

Originally posted by karby

Overall, I still have a high opinion of the majority of the members of ATS/BTS, as well as the people who maintain this place. But if this current level of discourse is what is considered to be "denying ignorance", then please excuse me while I search for an alternative 'home'.

I always wonder about threads like these when I read them. Why not instead of complaining, make it your responsibility to make a difference, yourself?

Why don't you take it upon yourself to creat a thread, on what ever subject you enjoy, showing the rest of us all, how it should be done?

The title of your thread is very misleading for example. In your opening post, you show no evidence or proof of "Christ on a stick," so you are misleading people on purpose by having such a title. You aren't even discussing "Christ on a stick."

So my question to you is, "what the hell??"

Hmm. Perhaps I should have opened with "christ on a bike"? Anyway, it's a figure of speech, it's not meant to be taken literally.
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Thank you for the suggestions, but I think my point is unclear. I'm not moaning about what I want, or even what topics I'm interested in. I'm mostly complaining about the erosion of accountability, maturity, and the level of respect between members. Topics/discussions that interest me aren't necessary for those things to be present, at least I don't think. People can, and will, always have discussions that appeal them but bore someone else. The only reason I mentioned older topics/discussions is because comparing more recent discussions/posts to those older ones, the difference where those issues are concerned is very striking.

Enthralled Fan, everything i mentioned, I do very much try to keep them in mind whenever I post. But reading through the recent crop of topics it seems like an increasingly losing battle. So I'm asking you what's the point?

Originally posted by karby
Hmm. Perhaps I should have opened with "christ on a bike"?

Anyway, it's a figure of speech, it's not meant to be taken literally.

You see..
There again we would have been left confused.
Opening the page and seeing a rant about the diminishing intellect of ATS'ers..

Instead of a religious figure endorsing a new exercise program..
Summer's coming up and new gym routines are hanging heavily on our thoughts.

A Christian oriented spin class would have been most welcome..

I have to agree wholeheartedly with the O P. I just lacked the energy to begin such a thread, let alone to put up with the relentless sunshine beamed out by all the pollyannas who swear that nothing has changed.

Basically, until ATS starts setting up some sort of minimum requirements, you'll see more and more "bottom-feeders" posting here.

Basically, there's no reward for posting excellence--and no punishment for posting crapola.

Given that setup, who do you think will prevail??

Message boards have become cool now. It's no longer strictly the domain of the die-hards. On the same note, diversity is good. The crappolla only makes the good stuff that much better.

I agree with wukker on this topic. If some of you are as "good" as you think you are, maybe you'd be willing to teach the others what "good" posting is about.

A part of ridding the self of ignorance, is recognizing it within. Pointing it out in others in the shear purpose of lifting the self is just feeding the ego, and a sign of ignorance.

clutching to a philosophy and using it as a reason to put down others in the name of elitism is also harmful. I say deny elitism over ignorance.

A part of ridding the self of ignorance, is recognizing it within. Pointing it out in others in the shear purpose of lifting the self is just feeding the ego, and a sign of ignorance.

clutching to a philosophy and using it as a reason to put down others in the name of elitism is also harmful. I say deny elitism over ignorance.

If you're offended, then I apologize, but I'm pointing out what I see that frustrates me.

From my perspective, it has absolutely nothing do with philosophy. It also has nothing at all to do with being a "good poster", however you define that.

I'm absolutely not talking about spelling or grammar; I'm not a grammar nazi by any means. I'm absolutely not talking about anything like having boring philosophical conversations, expert UFO analysis, or discussing the social and geopolitical constructs of the ancient world over a cup of tea, or anything like that or whatever.

I'm just wondering if there can be even a molecular amount of competence when someone posts. Seriously, how hard can it be to back up what you say by linking to your source, while giving mutual respect to the person your talking to? How hard is it to accept that when one is proven absolutely, without a doubt, wrong, one is just wrong, instead of dragging the conversation on the basis of an already-proven-false premise?
Please, do explain to me how not wanting to deal with unproven sources, misinformation, veiled racism and overall disrespect is considered being an 'elitist' and feeding the ego? If someone spit in your soup and you refused to eat it, would you be considered an ego feeding 'elitist'? (please note that I'm not referring to you, or anyone here in particular when I say this.)


I'm not a 'die-hard' message board person by any means, however there is a good reason why a lot of people refuse to hang out at places like '4-chan', which is considered by many to be the bottomless internet pit. Granted, ATS is light years away from that level, but is looking for a tiny little bit of forum decorum asking for too much?

reply to post by karby


I wasn't offended at all, you have no reason to apologize. I am more annoyed by the people who get upset about things. It's simple, just ignore those people that do the insulting, the petty behavior, the lack of sources, etc.

You can go another route and ask them to post their sources, educate them on how to create the thread that you believe are enlightening, and all that. Sometimes they are just the new breed who need a little push in the right direction.

Who knows, maybe I am full deuce?

My main point is that the reactions such as yours are like raising the white flag. Saying I give up. The idea ripples to others who are on the edge of raising that flag. It's much more powerful to set an example.

It's all good though...

I, too, lurked at ATS long before I joined (and I think I did join earlier but forgot my username..lol), and "back in the day" here, there were really great posts. I think part of the loss of greatness is that all of my favorite posters became Mods!! I was so happy for them when they became Mods, but was soon lamenting when they no longer posted all the time!

Just my two cents.